Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF

[Jarnhamar]

IF an outside agency were to be formed, how many of you are willing to bet the CEO would be a Col (retired) Bloggins?

I think you're 100% right and that decision would be 100% wrong.

The last thing anyone is going to do is listen to a Col who will in all likelihood come across as out of touch and detached from every day army life.

Instead of paying a retired colonel a whole bunch of money to come in and poli-speak to everyone they should pay an ex CF victim of abuse/harassment to come in and talk about their experiences. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Back on track.

Saw this somewhere on Facebook while cruising around:

"Yesterday I was a hero, adored by my countrymen.
Today, I'm a sexual deviant abhorred by the same"

 

[Halifax Tar]

Back on track.

Saw this somewhere on Facebook while cruising around:

"Yesterday I was a hero, adored by my countrymen.
Today, I'm a sexual deviant abhorred by the same"

Thats a really sad statment.  To be honest in the civilian dominant circles I run in it really didnt cause any stir.  Most gave a cursory *meah* and have forgotten about it already.

I wonder if we, as the subject matter, arent reading more into this than the public in general.

 

[cupper]

I wonder if we, as the subject matter, arent reading more into this than the public in general.

Regardless of what the public perception is WRT the subject at hand, there is still the overall effect that the report, its recommendations and subsequent actions will have on the institution as a whole. We may well be overestimating how much the public really cares about the issue, but we still have a vested interest in how the report is handled internally.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Regardless of what the public perception is WRT the subject at hand, there is still the overall effect that the report, its recommendations and subsequent actions will have on the institution as a whole. We may well be overestimating how much the public really cares about the issue, but we still have a vested interest in how the report is handled internally.

Absolutely we do.  But the comment I quoted is about a public perception.

 

[Shrek1985]

Question:

Has there ever been an inquiry like this ever, which failed to find massive sexual misconduct and harassment?

I mean; this is big bucks, right? There will need to be training, teaching materials, posters, presentations and seminars, all by "Experts" and I presume, all coming out of the military's budget.

 

[OldSolduer]

IF an outside agency were to be formed, how many of you are willing to bet the CEO would be a Col (retired) Bloggins?

I'm a suspicious jerk - Which naturally led me to the above comment.

Question:

Has there ever been an inquiry like this ever, which failed to find massive sexual misconduct and harassment?

I mean; this is big bucks, right? There will need to be training, teaching materials, posters, presentations and seminars, all by "Experts" and I presume, all coming out of the military's budget.

 

[geo]

FWIW, the population of the CF reflects the population of the country. If there are 5 sexual assaults per day in the CF with +/- 85000 members, then there are more than 2000 sexual assaults per day in the whole country.  If they say that we have a problem, what do they have? And what are they going to do about it?

 

[geo]

Yeah, yeah, I Know, they'll hammer down on the CF and give the general population (pun), a feel good moment, for a job well done...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yeah, yeah, I Know, they'll hammer down on the CF and give the general population (pun), a feel good moment, for a job well done...

Is that what's usually referred to as a 'happy finish'?

 

[cupper]

Is that what's usually referred to as a 'happy finish'?

There you go with that sexualized language again.  >

 

[Brad Sallows]

But the population of the CF does not reflect the population of the country, nor should anyone expect it to.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Yeah, yeah, I Know, they'll hammer down on the CF and give the general population (pun), a feel good moment, for a job well done...

But the rest of the Canadian public doesn't have unlimited liability nor a monopoly on the use of force in external affairs. The CF MUST hold itself to a higher standard than the rest of the Canadian population, as we need every single soldier/sailor/airman working on the same team to achieve the goals of the Canadian public. Because of our dynamic we, the leadership of the CF, must hold ourselves to a higher standard so using the "we are the same as the rest of the population" is a cop out.

My beef with the situation is that leadership has failed to defend the majority of people who have served with integity while refusing to focus efforts to find and punish those leaders who have proven that they aren't worthy of their positions in the CF. I'm also doubtful that the addition of another layer of beaurocracy, headed by a MGen and remaining firmly planted in Ottawa, will have any real effect on the problem on the ground. There are simpler solutions, such as 360 evaluations, that could just as easily assist in shedding light on poor leadership. IF the culture is to defend the honour of the (insert unit/branch here) than we need to ensure that leadership understands that their soldiers are more important than units and that their actions are bringing more disgrace to said units than the harrassment or assault would have.

 

[geo]

Understand that, while I Stated that we are no different from the rest of the Canadian public, it is in the context that the CF has not done anything (or not much) with the resources that are available.
From a personal experience point of view, LFQA / 2 Div considered it a cost centre that they could allow themselves to cut, because cases were down, because we were working at it. So they dismantled the resource

 

[captloadie]

But the population of the CF does not reflect the population of the country, nor should anyone expect it to.

I have been sitting back waiting for someone to bring this point up, with which I wholeheartedly agree. We are well past the days where the CAF will take in anybody off the streets. The testing and screening that occurs before enrolment makes many of us much more alike than the Canadian population as a whole. Perhaps that is part of the problem. Maybe our screening process actually favours some specific character trait that allows a greater number of members who are inclined towards this behaviour. Could it be that the number of instances in the CAF is statistically higher due to the type of individuals that get enrolled?

 

[Brad Sallows]

The specific character trait that introduces risk is "young men".

 

[Eye In The Sky]

But the population of the CF does not reflect the population of the country, nor should anyone expect it to.

It sure does reflect the population;  Canadians, from coast to coast and from all walks of life.  Therefore we will have the same types of issues in the workplace as the rest of Canada does.

Is there some secret decoder ring at CFRCs that can pick out people who might cross the line?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The specific character trait that introduces risk is "young men" PEOPLE.

FTFY

 

[Brad Sallows]

If I choose 1000 Canadians of military age at random from the general population, and 1000 from the CF, I am unlikely to find that the latter is much of a mirror of the former.  Members of the CF are firstly self-selected, and then occupationally selected.

Young men are more likely to be brash, rude, violent, anger prone, given to general jackass behaviour, offensive, etc, etc.

Any more politically correct, but biologically and socialogically incorrect, talking points?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am far from the poster boy of PC anything.

CAF members are drawn from Canadian fucking society. If anyone thinks that some of them, men and women, won't cause the same problems in the CAF workplace as any other workplace those people are mistaken.

I have trained many a recruit, and I assure you that the % of problem-child male and females are proportional to their numbers.  Thats from experience, not some random survey or opinion and from training locations CTC, CFLRS, etc over enough years that its not me randomly pulling info out of my arse.

CAF recruits are drawn from Canadian cities, towns, farms and fishing villages.  They are a cross section of Canada, full stop. 

For my own curiosity, are you in, were you in, and how much experience do you have dealing with recruits at Reg force and/or Res TEs?