Senators' expenses

[The Bread Guy]

Really?

A Conservative senator today bristled at questions auditors have put to her about her expenses, saying she shouldn't be expected to eat airline breakfasts.

"If you want ice-cold camembert with broken crackers, have it!" said Senator Nancy Ruth.

Ruth said auditors had taken issue with "a couple of times that my assistant put in [a claim] for a breakfast when I was on a plane, and they say I should have not claimed because I should have eaten that breakfast. Well, those breakfasts are pretty awful.

"I just don't think they understand anything of what it's like to have to fly around the world to get here to Ottawa." ....

Here's what the Treasury Board has to say about meals in and out of Canada while travelling:

A meal allowance shall not be paid to a traveller with respect to a meal that is provided. In exceptional situations where a traveller has incurred out of pocket expenses to supplement meals provided, the actual incurred costs may be reimbursed, based on receipts, up to the applicable meal allowance.

After certain events, I understand virtually every public servant/bureaucrat in Canada had to take an at-least-one-day course on Values and Ethics.  Do Senators get such things?  Do they get briefings on the rules?  Do their staff?  If a dummy like myself can find the above reference ....

 

[cupper]

Must be nice to get a meal on an airline flight.

"I just don't think they understand anything of what it's like to have to fly around the world to get here to Ottawa."

Ruth lives in Toronto.

:facepalm:

 

[Kat Stevens]

Issue them all 24 hours of MREs and a bottle of halazone tablets.

 

[Ostrozac]

Meh. Slow news day. So she claims that the meal service on Air Canada is sub-standard -- I just looked at the Air Canada schedule, and according to them, on a Business Class Toronto-Ottawa flight, a continental breakfast is served. On flights later in the day what is served is described as a "snack". The standard for soldiers and for the public service when on travel status is a hot breakfast. Quite frankly, if the military is willing to go to the effort to provide me and my troops a hot breakfast when travelling on duty, I'm not going to begrudge a serving Senator her bacon and eggs.

Now, if you think that CFTDI and PS Travel Directive is excessive, and that no one really needs bacon and eggs in the morning anymore, everyone should have Timbits, that's a legitimate opinion. But maybe we should rewrite the directives first before this Senator gets criticised for violating them.

This is pretty minor compared to the "IR Fraud" that is currently all the rage in the Senate. It's just breakfast. Doesn't everyone like breakfast?

 

[DBA]

What is more shocking to me in the article linked:

40 auditors working full-time

About 40 auditors hired by the auditor general are working on the Senate expenses file in any given month, poring over claims related mostly to travel and housing.

Spending so much time, money and effort to minutely audit a budget the size of what the Senate has seems very wasteful. Looks to be more of a witch hunt than sound financial auditing - it is foolish to spend $100's to audit a $15 breakfast (guessing at the $ value).

 

[Edward Campbell]

What is more shocking to me in the article linked:

Spending so much time, money and effort to minutely audit a budget the size of what the Senate has seems very wasteful. Looks to be more of a witch hunt than sound financial auditing - it is foolish to spend $100's to audit a $15 breakfast (guessing at the $ value).

I actually think (just hope?) it might be money well spent if, as good audit reports should, it recommends concrete, legal and administratively clear methods to manage the costs of The Hill, including expenses and constituency offices.

    (I am a bit of a radical, but I believe that the Government of Canada should contract it's own administration (what Treasure Board does, mainly) out to a big, reputable management/financial consulting firm ...
      something like McKinsey & Co, Deloitte, PwC (caveat lector, my son is a VP, albeit in Australia) or Ernst and Young. I think contracted management, in phases (redesign, first, then a public-private partnership (PPP) where Canada pays
      and the contractor operates the system for a fix, say 10 year, contract period) could be qualitatively better and quantitatively cheaper for taxpayers.)
 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Meh. Slow news day. So she claims that the meal service on Air Canada is sub-standard -- I just looked at the Air Canada schedule, and according to them, on a Business Class Toronto-Ottawa flight, a continental breakfast is served. On flights later in the day what is served is described as a "snack". The standard for soldiers and for the public service when on travel status is a hot breakfast.

Do you have a ref for that bit in yellow?  I've been in the public service for 10+ years, and have never been briefed on, or seen a reference, saying I'm entitled to a hot breakfast.

If that's a rule in writing, cool - the Senator (and I, from here on in) could file a receipt for a breakfast top-up.  If that's just what "they" say, though, she's complaining about following a rule everyone else in the (at least non-uniform) public service has to follow.

This is pretty minor compared to the "IR Fraud" that is currently all the rage in the Senate. It's just breakfast. Doesn't everyone like breakfast?

To be fair, I should be clear:  my complaint is not necessarily about the individual but about the ATTITUDE of, "the breakfast that's given to me sucks, so I'll just claim for it" when 1)  others in the system either can't, or 2) there are rules that could be followed that weren't.

I actually think (just hope?) it might be money well spent if, as good audit reports should, it recommends concrete, legal and administratively clear methods to manage the costs of The Hill, including expenses and constituency offices.

Agreed.  I think you'd have to agree, though, that this latest exercise is one of being seen to be doing something post-Duffy-et-al, as opposed to a "what's the real problem and how do we deal with it?" exercise.

 

[Ostrozac]

Do you have a ref for that bit in yellow?  I've been in the public service for 10+ years, and have never been briefed on, or seen a reference, saying I'm entitled to a hot breakfast.

This is a link to a grievance decision from 2014 -- where a group of public servants didn't eat the continental breakfast buffet in their hotel, bought their own breakfasts, and submitted receipts. The department in question submitted in their case that "the Department has identified specific exceptional situations under which a reimbursement for a supplementary meal may be provided. They are for health reasons (diabetes, allergies, restrictive diet) or instances where the meal provided is limited, for instance a continental breakfast consisting only of a coffee and a muffin." The only dispute in this case was whether a continental breakfast buffet was close enough to a meal to count as an actual breakfast. It isn't; the grievance was upheld and the public servants got their money for their bacon and eggs.

http://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/decision.php?lang=eng&decision_id=1554

This is on travel status only, of course. Just as a civil servant is required to pay for your own commute, they have to buy their own breakfast on a day to day basis. And of course, it's the established tradition in this department that a boxed lunch or IMP counts as a meal just as much as a hay box or steam line meal.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

Back in the day, I used to hear the expression, rank has it's privilege and I don't remember anyone apologizing for it.  The attack on the Senate is purely bizarre.  Arguing over a breakfast is pure stupidity.  Just like that silly $ 16 orange juice as if anyone ever asked the price of orange juice before ordering it.  I am delighted about one thing - that the rest of the Senate has "coming around what goed around" in their treatment of Duffy and Wallin.  All the impotent senators, jealous of the respect shown to Duffy and Wallin were like giddy schoolgirls bringing them down and didn't see that it was their turn next.

Spending 10 or 20 times any recovery to audit the Senate is senseless.  In the normal world, an auditor auditing a breakfast receipt would be considered incompetent, not meeting the standard of materiality.  It's all showboating.  A big part of the problem is people in the Senate with active political careers are being second guessed on each trip by the Senate slugs.  Was Wallin going to a University graduation political or personal?  In reality, it was probably both.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The issue isn't bacon and eggs or orange juice, no matter how expensive. The issue is: how does the Parliament of Canada (and the Government of Canada for that matter) manage itself? Does it have good, clear, effective rules and procedures?

My answers two the two questions are: "ineptly," and "No!"

A good audit should make that clear and it should offer concrete proposals to do things right ... not just better, right.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This is a link to a grievance decision from 2014 -- where a group of public servants didn't eat the continental breakfast buffet in their hotel, bought their own breakfasts, and submitted receipts. The department in question submitted in their case that "the Department has identified specific exceptional situations under which a reimbursement for a supplementary meal may be provided. They are for health reasons (diabetes, allergies, restrictive diet) or instances where the meal provided is limited, for instance a continental breakfast consisting only of a coffee and a muffin." The only dispute in this case was whether a continental breakfast buffet was close enough to a meal to count as an actual breakfast. It isn't; the grievance was upheld and the public servants got their money for their bacon and eggs.

http://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/decision.php?lang=eng&decision_id=1554

This is on travel status only, of course. Just as a civil servant is required to pay for your own commute, they have to buy their own breakfast on a day to day basis. And of course, it's the established tradition in this department that a boxed lunch or IMP counts as a meal just as much as a hay box or steam line meal.

Thanks LOADS for that reference - milpoints inbound.

The issue is: how does the Parliament of Canada (and the Government of Canada for that matter) manage itself? Does it have good, clear, effective rules and procedures?

And, one might hope, are said rules & procedures being followed?

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
And, one might hope, are said rules & procedures being followed?

I think the reason Michael Ferguson has a reinforced platoon of auditors on The Hill is because it's pretty clear that the "rules," whatever they are, aren't being followed.

I suspect that one of the reasons the rules aren't being followed is because they are poorly drafted. In fairness, many (most?) Senators obey the spirit of the law and keep their partisan political and personal 'lives' separate from their Senate 'life,' but my sense is that the rules were written 100 years ago for gentlemen and, in the 21st century, the gentlemen have left the pitch and turned the game over to the players.

 

[Privateer]

    (I am a bit of a radical, but I believe that the Government of Canada should contract it's own administration (what Treasure Board does, mainly) out to a big, reputable management/financial consulting firm ...
      something like McKinsey & Co, Deloitte, PwC (caveat lector, my son is a VP, albeit in Australia) or Ernst and Young. I think contracted management, in phases (redesign, first, then a public-private partnership (PPP) where Canada pays
      and the contractor operates the system for a fix, say 10 year, contract period) could be qualitatively better and quantitatively cheaper for taxpayers.)

Having seen the effect of having large accounting firms appointed as receivers of corporations, I question this approach.  They always seem to need a cast of thousands, and somehow most of the value in the corporation ends up being expended as fees for the receiver, leaving little left for the parties intended to benefit from the exercise.

 

[a_majoor]

WRT super detailed audits; the primary benefit is to strike the smug sense of entitlement from certain members of the politcal class. Hopefully this will also resonate in other areas of politics, government and the civil service (although I won't be holding my breath in anticipation).

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Put her on a J model with standard flight feeding and bathroom facilities.  That level of comfort is acceptable for those who truly serve Canada including Officers, so it should be good enough for the folks in that organization too.  Right?

 

[TCBF]

- My Squadron Clerks told me what I was entitled to. TBS set the standards and DND followed them. Perhaps the senators should get an Orderly Room staffed with a few hard assed RMS clerks to do their claims. Anything excessive gets denied and comes out of their pay.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Chronicle Herald Cartoon

Maybe she's entitled to a better breakfast, maybe.  But, the optics of her temper tantrum rant as a Senator is atrocious.  Once again they come across, however fairly or unfairly (as per your opinion) as having an inflated sense of entitlement and importance above the plebs.  A bunch of Dave Dingwalls, "entitled to my entitlements" to many of their fellow Canadians.  Myself included.

 

[George Wallace]

I remember years ago, when the CAF had regular Service Flights flying coast to coast three times weekly and to Europe twice weekly, sitting in the AMU awaiting a flight overseas and going up for a snack at the canteen.  The guy in a suit in front of me at the cashier pulls out a "GST Exempt" card to buy his coffee.  Crap!  A coffee, and he wants to save paying the GST.  Turns out he was a Senator.....and a cheap one at that.  Flying Service Air. 

Yes, there are a lot of perks that these folk take advantage of, that could be considered quite questionable by us 'common folk'.

 

[Kirkhill]

Having seen the effect of having large accounting firms appointed as receivers of corporations, I question this approach.  They always seem to need a cast of thousands, and somehow most of the value in the corporation ends up being expended as fees for the receiver, leaving little left for the parties intended to benefit from the exercise.

I would support Privateer on this observation - and it does not apply only to Accountants. It applies equally to all of the "intellectual property services" - including lawyers, engineers and architects.  Jaded as I am I have come to conclude that the primary function of all of these guilds is to employ as many members as possible for the greatest number of hours without ever being responsible for delivering anything of use.

I would much rather have my services delivered by the organization responsible for delivering the goods.  The evaluation of the quality of the service becomes pretty easy then.

Clerks... I fart in their general direction.

 

[Spartan]

I don't understand this hoopla that the esteemed Senate is creating. I fully understand that the Upper House is left to run things as they see fit. I don't see how having rules that approximate what the Treasury Board has already in place for the government departments, or having rules that approximate what the Board of Internal Economy has deemed necessary for MPs, would be such a hindrance. It would help in appeasing the general population about government dollars being used wisely (or at least being accountable).

If the Auditor General is an independent office reporting to Parliament, then having an Auditor General do work in the Senate should not be a problem.

This is what irritates me more in all of this. Thou dost protest too much. As a taxpayer, both Assemblies should be accountable, at least to what extent our current system allows for. All public funds and budgets should be accessible online.

I am not trying to discuss the merits / lack there of having a senate, but rather surprised at the amount of misdirection that this will cause in the lead up to an election.