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Search for New Canadian Ranger Rifle (merged)

Update:
New approval cycle is to begin this upcoming December.  What this means?  The trials are now moved into 2014 with potential delivery moved into 2015, this constitutes a delay of a year.
 
recceguy said:
You can get arsenal refurbed Mosin Nagant M-44s & M-38s for around $200. Just like new and pack a wallop with the 7.62x54R cartridge. Just as solid as anything Lee Enfield made.

Makes a good scout rifle also.

This is one I built for my daughter from an M-38 with a long relief scope. Less than $350 total. Polymer stock, scope and action. Plus I've got the original bits (stock, sights, etc) that went to rebuild a frankengun.

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Looked a Tula made one beside my Izhevsk one, I noted the receiver where the bolt turns down to lock is radiused on the Tula, making it much easier to close the bolt on surplus ammo which seems to vary a fair bit in OAL.
 
A trained shooter on the No4 will have 5 rds down the tube before the Mosin shooter will have 2. :salute:
I've been shooting/hunting with a '43 longbranch for over 40yrs .
I've had to replace "zero" parts , but after restoring a couple , I can find parts no probs...E bay for example.
A man can place pieplate sized groups at 300yd using the battlesights.

 
Ruger has made a new design, called the RAR ( Ruger American Rifle). New design on the bolt. Synthetic ergo stock. Lightweight and available chambered in .308 ( 7.62 NATO).

Economical even at retail pricing of $400 per unit. I wonder if DND is perhaps making this more onerous than it has to be.
 
By the time they struggle through a full competition, they could make enough spare parts to keep the No.4's going for another 20 years. Take any new parts they have check them for fit and then laser scan them and there are your specs. Does not solve the ammo issue, but again lot's of companies will make the ammo for you, it's not like all .303 are going disappear anytime soon.
 
Colin P said:
By the time they struggle through a full competition, they could make enough spare parts to keep the No.4's going for another 20 years. Take any new parts they have check them for fit and then laser scan them and there are your specs. Does not solve the ammo issue, but again lot's of companies will make the ammo for you, it's not like all .303 are going disappear anytime soon.

At least they'll be able to replace this weapon system faster than the Sea King... right?
 
Well, maybe.......... 8)
Hey it's complicated when trying to justify a space age bolt gun that is really a knock off of a gun of the same era as the one you are replacing, and like how is anyone going to get promoted or noticed ordering Bolt Actions? Clearly there is no magic command level pixie dust attached to this buy.
 
Colin P said:
Clearly there is no magic command level pixie dust attached to this buy.

Maybe if someone could define the Ranger's requirements, that could equate to pixie dust.  A Ranger in DLR?  Is there one?  Ranger tasks - aside from looking for lost Russians, the Ranger's rifles need to kill stuff so you can eat it, and rightfully so.  Has anyone seen the price of perishables up there?

Our attempt at purchasing Ranger's rifles is right up there with snowmobiles.  We're trying to give them racing machines when all they need/want is a simple 2 stroke that won't break down when they're 100 miles from surviving.
 
recceguy said:
Has anyone asked the Rangers what they want?

Stop making sense...you should know by now that "if it makes sense, do the opposite" is the motto of Canadian government procurement agencies, and in fact most of the Canadian Civil Service  ;D

MM
 
In my magic world I would send a simple questionare out to all the Rangers with the ID number requested so we are sure no one is skewing the results. Send as many as possible to home addresses to avoid influences and have the responses sealed.

Is a bolt action more useful than a semi-auto?

What magazine capacity do you want to see?

Does .303 need replacing, if  so pick form list.... Any other calibres?

Plastic vs wood stock?

Scout setup or traditional Iron sights?

Adjustable trigger?

So on and so forth.

Last question: "What rifle would you choose?"

Take all the responses send them to a survey company to tabulate the response. No one in the Ranger organization will know who picked what.

survey could be offered by e-mail to help reduce costs

 
Colin P said:
In my magic world I would send a simple questionare out to all the Rangers with the ID number requested so we are sure no one is skewing the results. Send as many as possible to home addresses to avoid influences and have the responses sealed.

Is a bolt action more useful than a semi-auto?

What magazine capacity do you want to see?

Does .303 need replacing, if  so pick form list.... Any other calibres?

Plastic vs wood stock?

Scout setup or traditional Iron sights?

Adjustable trigger?

So on and so forth.

Last question: "What rifle would you choose?"

Take all the responses send them to a survey company to tabulate the response. No one in the Ranger organization will know who picked what.

survey could be offered by e-mail to help reduce costs

You know there is no way that certain people would let that survey go forward without it being translated into, at least, Inuktitut, Inuinnaqtun and Inuvialuktun, right?

Of course we're talking another five years to accomplish that, and another five to ensure the questions were sufficiently translated for the english words that have no meaning in their language.  ;D
 
recceguy said:
You know there is no way that certain people would let that survey go forward without it being translated into, at least, Inuktitut, Inuinnaqtun and Inuvialuktun, right?
Of course we're talking another five years to accomplish that, and another five to ensure the questions were sufficiently translated for the english words that have no meaning in their language.  ;D

Do any of those languages even have a written version? Can any one other than the person writing it read it? As far as I can recall there was no Native American written language. So you can add a few more years on to that to teach every one said language.
 
Tank Troll said:
As far as I can recall there was no Native American written language.
I can't speak with certainty for the FAR North, but I know a couple of Aboriginal languages in northern Ontario sure have written elements....
Online Cree Dictionary
Ojibway Dictionary
Oji-Cree online dictionary

recceguy said:
Has anyone asked the Rangers what they want?
Yeah, they can use the same model used to ask CF troops what hardware they want/need.... Oh, wait ....
 
Funny story about getting English put into Northern Languages.  I worked with a fellow 20 years ago who had come to Calgary from Goose Bay.  At the time they were having trouble with the Dene people over the flights, land use etc etc.  There were in those days if you remember numerous incidents of demonstrators getting onto the runways and becoming a hazard to themselves and aircraft.

The base decided to have the ubiquitous "no trespass" signs translated into Dene and installed on the perimeter fenceline at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars.  They were apparently quite pleased at their accomplishment until one day when a visiting RCMP member who was of the Dene people came home on leave.

He read the new signs and came into the Guardhouse to speak to them.  He asked what the new signs were supposed to say and was told that it was a translation of the no trespassing signs we all know and love and that a local Dene elder had provided the translation.  The RCMP member laughed and said, "no, it doesn't.  It says " This is Dene land that was stolen by the White Man and they want their rightful land back"

The signs came down right quickly.  Lots of red faces in some quarters.

 
jollyjacktar said:
Funny story about getting english put into Northern Languages.  I worked with a fellow 20 years ago who had come to Calgary from Goose Bay.  At the time they were having trouble with the Dene people over the flights, land use etc etc.  There were in those days if you remember numerous incidents of demonstrators gettting onto the runways and becoming a hazard to themselves and aircraft.

The base decided to have the ubiquitous "no trespass" signs translated into Dene and installed on the perimeter fenceline at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars.  They were apparently quite pleased at their accomplishment until one day when a visiting RCMP member who was of the Dene people came home on leave.

He read the new signs and came into the Guardhouse to speak to them.  He asked what the new signs were supposed to say and was told that it was a translation of the no trespassing signs we all know and love and that a local Dene elder had provided the translation.  The RCMP member laughed and said, "no, it doesn't.  It says " This is Dene land that was stolen by the White Man and they want their rightful land back"

The signs came down right quickly.  Lots of red faces in some quarters.

:rofl:

Almost should migrate the thread to the funniest thing you've heard today........
 
recceguy said:
Has anyone asked the Rangers what they want?

Yes, and both Canadian Ranger Instructors and Canadian Rangers from all 5 Patrol Groups are going to be involved in the testing phase of the procurement of the NCRR.

Colin P said:
In my magic world I would send a simple questionare out to all the Rangers with the ID number requested so we are sure no one is skewing the results. Send as many as possible to home addresses to avoid influences and have the responses sealed.

Is a bolt action more useful than a semi-auto?

What magazine capacity do you want to see?

Does .303 need replacing, if  so pick form list.... Any other calibres?

Plastic vs wood stock?

Scout setup or traditional Iron sights?

Adjustable trigger?

So on and so forth.

Last question: "What rifle would you choose?"

Take all the responses send them to a survey company to tabulate the response. No one in the Ranger organization will know who picked what.

survey could be offered by e-mail to help reduce costs
Good idea for the questionnaire but it will never happen.  Why you ask?  Because to have something mailed into the North and expect it to be opened, read, filled out and then sent back in a timely manner is a pipe dream.  You might as well ask for the Federal Government to invest in flying cars and then buy those cars for everyone.

All of these questions have been asked and discussed verbally over the past couple years, we get plenty of feedback.  Bolt action is definitely the preferred type of action as it is simple and operates well in the colder/wet environments.

Unfortunately the trials were supposed to start in a month, but the entire Small Arms Project was delayed which delayed the NCRR, so trials will not begin until next year.
 
PM gets to try the old stuff during his latest road trip up North - highlights mine.
Stephen Harper took up arms — albeit antique arms — on the Arctic tundra late Tuesday in a round of target practice meant as a show of solidarity with Canadian Rangers.

Both the prime minister and newly appointed Defence Minister Rob Nicholson went shooting with the First World War vintage .303 Lee Enfield rifles.

They are the standard issue weapon for the aboriginal reservists — or part-time soldiers — who patrol the vast, desolate tundra.

Harper clearly relished the bonding exercise, firing from several different positions, including laying down.

Shots from the rifle demonstration reverberated for kilometres over the empty limestone and sand landscape.

(....)

The army has been trying to replace the Lee Enfields for years because there are so few manufacturers left who make spare parts for the rifles, first introduced to the British Army in 1895.

The fact that they don’t freeze up or jam in the Arctic is part of their charm.

At a stop in Hay River, N.W.T., prior to arriving in Nunavut, Harper acknowledged National Defence was still looking for an appropriate replacement.

"I am told there is no difficulty in servicing the weapons at this time, but this is a concern and we believe it is time," he said. "The Department of National Defence is in the process of scoping out the program for replacement and I expect that to happen over the next few years."


The weapons the Rangers are using were purchased in the 1950s.

Public Works put out a tender last fall for 10,000 replacement rifles, but defence industry sources have said that the program has been held up over concern about who holds the design rights on certain weapons.
 
Mr. Den Tandt should learn what's required of a rifle, to be of use in those conditions, before he starts running his gob about off the shelf purchases from Cambodian Tire.

What am I talking about! :facepalm:

The whole Canadian journalistic cabal is the most woefully ignorant group on the face of the earth when it comes to discussing firearms.
 
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