Sailors don't wear CADPAT direction by CANFORGEN

[gwp]

CANFORGEN 198/09 VCDS 031 191500Z NOV 09
WEARING OF NAVAL COMBAT DRESS
UNCLASSIFIED

THE WEARING OF CADPAT BY CF PERS IN LODGER AND INTEGRAL UNITS IN GARRISONS, BASES AND DOCKYARDS ACROSS CANADA REMINDS US EVERYDAY THAT THE CF IS A GLOBALLY DEPLOYED FORCE. IT ALSO REMINDS US, AS WELL AS THE CANADIAN PUBLIC WE SERVE, THAT THE FOCUS OF ALL OUR EFFORTS IS TO SUPPORT OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN CF OPERATIONS AT HOME AND ABROAD


THIS INITIATIVE HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS IN HELPING THE CF AS WHOLE TO CONNECT WITH CANADIANS. AT THE SAME TIME, HOWEVER, THE WEARING OF CADPAT HAS MADE THE NAVY LESS VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. CANADIANS MUST SEE MORE OF THEIR NAVY IF WE ARE TO SUPPORT THE VERY SUBSTANTIAL EFFORTS NOW UNDERWAY ACROSS THE DND / CF TO REVERSE THE TRENDS OF THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS AND ATTRACT CANADIANS TO A CAREER IN THE NAVY. MOREOVER, AS THE NAVY PREPARES TO CELEBRATE 100 YEARS OF SERVICE TO CANADA NEXT YEAR, IT IS TIMELY THAT THE CF VISIBLY DEMONSTRATES ITS SUPPORT FOR OUR MEN AND WOMEN AT SEA


ACCORDINGLY, CF MEMBERS ENTITLED TO THE NAVAL DISTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU) ARE HEREBY DIRECTED TO WEAR NAVAL COMBAT DRESS (NCD) IN LIEU OF CADPAT, WHERE THE CADPAT IS PERMITTED BY COMDS AND CO S AS THE DRESS OF THE DAY. EXCEPTIONS TO THIS CANFORGEN ARE PERMITTED FOR VALID OPERATIONAL REASONS ONLY, INCL EMPL IN ACTUAL FIELD OPS, FIELD TRG ACTIVITIES OR OTHER APPROVED TRG SITUATIONS

 

[medicineman]

:rofl:  I think I'm going to start wearing my NCD's  again with all my CADPAT accoutrements...Love mixing and matching uniforms...

MM

 

[FDO]

I know a few sailors in Armyland that are happy now. CPM has had this in effect for the last couple of years. Glad to see the rest finally caught up!

 

[medaid]

Waste of time and energy.

 

[Occam]

Wait for it....I won't be surprised in the slightest if the next announcement will be for sailors to be wearing salt and peppers as mandatory walking out rig, just like they did for the 75th in 1985.

 

[gcclarke]

Waste of time and energy.

Waste of time and energy issuing sailors CADPAT whenever they're posted anywhere where they actually don't need it due to field exercises and the like? Yes, I agree.

Frankly, the habit of the various commands forcing their sailors to wear CADPAT into the office was definitely one of my pet peeves. I'm glad to see it's being rectified.

Wait for it....I won't be surprised in the slightest if the next announcement will be for sailors to be wearing salt and peppers as mandatory walking out rig, just like they did for the 75th in 1985.

That sounds to me to be the type of move that could quickly escalate into a bun-fight between CMS and whoever is the Level 1 for whatever CO issued that particular order. I'd like to think that our organization has developed enough in the last 24 years that a CO wouldn't go out of his way to punish sailors under his command just for the fact that they are sailors.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Waste of time and energy.

Not at all, think of the time saved explaining scuffed boots and poor drill to Sergeants Major all across the country.  >

 

[Occam]

That sounds to me to be the type of move that could quickly escalate into a bun-fight between CMS and whoever is the Level 1 for whatever CO issued that particular order. I'd like to think that our organization has developed enough in the last 24 years that a CO wouldn't go out of his way to punish sailors under his command just for the fact that they are sailors.

I actually meant that I wouldn't be surprised if CMS issued the order for salt 'n peppers....and it extends to all those in the Naval uniform, wherever they may be (except, of course, those in CADPAT for operational reasons).

 

[Halifax Tar]

Thank god!

Can anyone PM me directions to find a hard copy of this message ?

 

[kratz]

On a DIN computer follow this link: http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2009/198-09_e.asp

 

[medaid]

Not at all, think of the time saved explaining scuffed boots and poor drill to Sergeants Major all across the country.  >

> AGREED!

 

[gcclarke]

I actually meant that I wouldn't be surprised if CMS issued the order for salt 'n peppers....and it extends to all those in the Naval uniform, wherever they may be (except, of course, those in CADPAT for operational reasons).

Considering that he just recently authorized ball-caps for walking out gear for all personnel wearing NCDs as the Dress of the Day, this hardly seems to be the trend. Seems to me that the message is to emphasize the sea-going aspect of our job, rather than make us all wear gear suitable only for working in an office.

Of course, wait a year and everything could change again

 

[armyvern]

I know a few sailors in Armyland that are happy now. CPM has had this in effect for the last couple of years. Glad to see the rest finally caught up!

No worries, it'll still be taking up space in their closets for wear during those couple days a week tac vest marches and ruck marches for PT, 10 weeks of WU for BFTs, BFTs, stints of a couple weeks doing their annual range quals, IBTS trg etc etc. All those in 1st line units, in the Army are considered "operational" ... after all, then you've got those ASU/ASG folks ... they are indeed collecting that brand spanking new Field Operational Allowance - be hard to collect that "entitled to it because I'm employed in an operational field position" money on one hand while attempting to argue with the other that they aren't "field" wouldn't it?

I think it'd be even more interesting if this followed through to an actual ... be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Need more visibility of the Navy? How about posting some of those black DEU wearing purple trades to the rest of Canada for a change instead of having a whole lot of them linger around two coast-specific confined areas for the duration of their careers ... 

 

[armyvern]

Next on the Agenda: Brand spanking new blue cadpat for the AF (because apparently blue berets [nor black ones, nor white peak caps ... for the Navy folk] and wedges may not be enough, or the blue DEU [or black DEU for the Navy] they wear during times they actually are on parade in front of the general public ...) ... they must have an anniversary coming up too ... as does the Army. I think all 3 elements have one of those each annually.

But good on the CMP for timing this announcement for the big 100th, makes it just that wee bit more justified.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No worries, it'll still be taking up space in their closets for wear during those couple days a week tac vest marches and ruck marches for PT, 10 weeks of WU for BFTs, BFTs, stints of a couple weeks doing their annual range quals, IBTS trg etc etc. All those in 1st line units, in the Army are considered "operational" ... after all, then you've got those ASU/ASG folks ... they are indeed collecting that brand spanking new Field Operational Allowance - be hard to collect that "entitled to it because I'm employed in an operational field position" money on one hand while attempting to argue with the other that they aren't "field" wouldn't it?

I think it'd be even more interesting if this followed through to an actual ... be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Need more visibility of the Navy? How about posting some of those black DEU wearing purple trades to the rest of Canada for a change instead of having a whole lot of them linger around two coast-specific confined areas for the duration of their careers ...

You sound a little Jealous Vern! All the more reason to encourage an end to this ridiculous experiment we call unification that's gone on for what 40 years ? Finally put some meaning back into our CHOSEN elements wouldn't you agree ? Probably not but alas the day is coming, can  you feel it ? I can!

Besides the way I read that message is its for people who are posted to a 2nd or 3rd line unit, not first... Some place like an area HQ or depot of sorts.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Next on the Agenda: Brand spanking new blue cadpat for the AF (because apparently blue berets [nor black ones, nor white peak caps ... for the Navy folk] and wedges may not be enough, or the blue DEU [or black DEU for the Navy] they wear during times they actually are on parade in front of the general public ...) ... they must have an anniversary coming up too ... as does the Army. I think all 3 elements have one of those each annually.

But good on the CMP for timing this announcement for the big 100th, makes it just that wee bit more justified.

Seriously Vern ? Come on... Does this really bother you that much ? What effect does it have on your daily life ? Except that perhaps you have no reason to mistake a LS for a CPL anymore ?

Embrace the change Vern! Embrace the change!

 

[armyvern]

Seriously Vern ? Come on... Does this really bother you that much ? What effect does it have on your daily life ? Except that perhaps you have no reason to mistake a LS for a CPL anymore ?

Embrace the change Vern! Embrace the change!

I've never mistaken a LS for a Cpl ... I can read, and tell colours, and know and respect my subordinates. But thanks. That is also reciprocal ... no more mistaking Cpls for LS on those naval bases eh?

However, from personal experience (and stated by me on this forum before) - sailors (supervisors included) used to love calling my OD (I'm sure you know that slang), then AB, then killick back in the days of my posting at a certain naval establishment. That was back in the days of course when we had to wear our DEU to and from the workplace and switch into our work dress upon arrival and prior to departure ... apparently my blue uniform wasn't a big enough hint that I wasn't "an Ordinary Dummy" nor an "Able Seaman." <--- and that is the story that had me bringing up the blue/black comments below ...

Funny that you quote the jokey bit ... but don't feel it necessary to comment on the other bits:

No the policy doesn't bother me at all. So what do you think about the "Field Operational Allowance" bit? Are they ... or aren't they?

Or, about the bit where if the Navy wants "visibility to Canadians", then start posting some of those black DEU wearing purple trades to locations other than Halifax/Esquimault (with the odd 1 or 2 at an Army base, and some at HQs etc) ... I know a purple Sup tech who wears black who was with me in Halifax in 88 and he's been there ever since ... hard to get visibility of your element out to "Canadians" that way n'est pas?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I didn't bother quoting as I think it would have been just to lengthy but I will answers your Qs

1) I did quote the serious bits and comment just to to the bottom of page 1 to read them.

2)"So what do you think about the "Field Operational Allowance" bit? Are they ... or aren't they?"
I like this because it means while I'm posted to a "field unit", like now, my sea time counts and I get the extra benefit for putting up with the extra crap that come along with a first line posting. And It works in reverse for the Sup Tech who's spent umpteen years in the field he doesn't start at the bottom for sea pay nor should he. I think this is a move in the right direction!

3) I personally think we should all be posted our elements. I would like to see the services separated and the Royal put back into the Canadian Navy. I would like to see the MS and below go to a more traditional square rig for a DEU.

BUT

That's not the way it is, is it ? I don't want to comment on anyone careers. There is such thing as the Nova Scotia Armed Forces I know. And truly I cant blame them completely. If the CM is going to leave people in one spot for 10+ years how do expect them to be able to move easily in all reality.

Think about the CMS. He has invested 10 years of training and experience dollars in me to become a valuable member of the Maritime service.  Now at the whim of someone in Ottawa he will loose that experience for no better reason than because. Now multiply that by the amount of people posted, times years at sea and in the naval area of supply and that a good sized number.

It works both ways for the CLS, CAS and CMS. One more reason for environmental postings I think. Think of the money saved too! And think of each environments ability to now wash away those unwilling to fulfill the requirements of that service! No sailing = No pay check, no field time = no pay check. This giving the ability to lose the dead weight and let the able and willing to move ahead should their competence so decide.


I can feel it coming I really can.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Or, about the bit where if the Navy wants "visibility to Canadians", then start posting some of those black DEU wearing purple trades to locations other than Halifax/Esquimault (with the odd 1 or 2 at an Army base, and some at HQs etc) ... I know a purple Sup tech who wears black who was with me in Halifax in 88 and he's been there ever since ... hard to get visibility of your element out to "Canadians" that way n'est pas?

Well the Navy does have a reserve unit in nearly every major Canadian city, so visibility is a non issue.  I agree with Tar, Purple trades should be posted to their elements and only moved out upon request of the member. 

 

[COBRA-6]

Just in time for the Olympics, hmmm....