Right after highschool?

[Glenn2006]

Hello everyone

I'm in my final semester of highschool, in Scarborough, Ont. For months now I've been seriously considering joining the Canadian Army as soon as this school year ends. It's upsetting to see how much teachers and the 'guidance' department have tried to make me think as though I'm going to lead as useless life if I don't attend university, or college in the least. I hate to see that all of my friends, or just people in my grade for that matter, all have such high hopes and seem to be chasing the generic doctor/lawyer dream, even though statistics arent in their favour at all for achieving anything other than their degree. (of course a degree is something worthwhile, but what good is a piece of paper if it's for a job market that is flooded?) My teachers have told me over and over they think I'm well suited for university, and keep asking me questions on the side about my plans, programs, etc.

I guess what I'm getting to here is, has anyone been in the same position as me right now...nearing a crossroads, and having to make the decision to finally part from the crowd, but at the same time 'miss out' on the college or university experience? If so, did you regret joining so soon? Just so you know, I dont think I'd regret anything.... it's the just the timing of things I'm not 100% certain about. 

I'm kind of speaking ahead of myself here, but if I did get in, sure in the future I'd like to achieve some sort of higher education, via the forces or not.

Any input is great appreciated

Thanks,
            Glenn

 

[CosmoK]

Hey - just the fact that this is an option and that you are seriously considering it is already a very positive first step.  When I look back, i'm kinda glad I went to university after high school, simply because socially it was the greatest experience of my life.  I wasn't too social in high school because I studied so much so when I went on to uni, I blossomed so to speak.  I developed more people skills, lived in residence, partied too much, and a little study.  I came out with a BA that doesn't help much skills wise for what I want to do with my life, but overall at the age of early 20's I think I rather did that then be in the military.  However, now at 30, i'm enlisting.

I think you should either do your undergrad and get an education, and then you can go to the military for a career, even as an officer.  OR, you can enlist, and do your education via the forces as you said.  But then you will mostly be around dudes, and not experience those years the same as if you were "free".  Then again, how about the Reserves to get the best of both worlds.

You're a smart kid.  The market IS saturated.  Just the option of the Forces is something I will always appreciate.

 

[GO!!!]

Glenn,

I went to University immediately after high school for year. It was great, I got laid more than ever before (or since) tried all of those illicit substances, partied non-stop - had a blast! I also got only one B, and a lot of Cs, and alot of student loans to show for it. I was just too young.

I joined the army when everyone else was looking for a summer job, and never looked back. Since then, I've travelled the world, gotten in better shape than I thought possible, and almost finished my degree by correspondence (but with better marks!) I still make more than nearly everyone I would have graduated with, except for the two guys that became plumbers, and I don't regret it for a second.

Guidance counsellors and teachers are usually inherently "anti military" simply because they don't understand, and they are usually from a generation that defined itself by being anti-establishment, which was compounded by the left leaning university system. They went to university, and now they think you should too. If you join the CF, your first contract will end in three short years. If you are not an idiot, and you don't sound like one, you will be offered the option of an additional three year contract, or an honorable discharge. In that time, you will travel accross Canada and around the world, and if you are smart, save some money.

You will be discharged, if you so wish, with several thousand dollars in severance pay and pension money returns, and some great experiences you will not have elsewhere. Then go to school, a mature, focussed student, and get the marks you want. You might also decide to stay!

My 2 cents.

 

[double0three]

Since you sound like a smart cookie why not enlist in something like ROTP where you join as an officer, and they put you through university?  You get both!  Seems win-win to me.  ;D

 

[GO!!!]

For someone who is unsure as to their career or life goals, the 10 - 11 year commitment of ROTP would seem a bit much.

Also, no one seems to mention that officers earn less than the privates that work for them for the first 2-4 years, depending on their method of entry. Given that most CF members have short careers, this would be a deciding factor for most applicants - if anyone told them...

 

[CosmoK]

I have to add that GO!! has made some excellent points.  It's all a trade off.  I'm starting to think maybe going in for 3 years and then university is the way to do it.  However, having the military pay for your school is a HUGE bonus.  Otherwise maybe pick something that has a civilian equivalent in case you want to go back to civie life.

I lacked maturity when I went to uni.  The reserves gave me huge confidence.  When you are in the military you know you can do anything you set your mind to no doubt.  All the partying in uni is great for social life, but it has a cost both $ and to your health.  I regret all my drunken nights that ended up in the toilet.

Find your true passion dude - and follow your instinct.  I don't think you can go wrong with military, or at least go reserves. I personally think there should be conscription like other countries and everyone should have to do a year or 2 after high school.

 

[ProPatria05]

My 2 cents.....

The typical high school guidance counsellor line...."If you're smart and have good grades, you go to university. If you're getting C's you go to college. If you're passing every course with 50%, you should start looking for a job." What a load of bull$hit. This has been getting heaped upon successive classes of high school graduates since the beginning of time. As someone pointed out already, this kind of crap is largely coming from left-leaning former hippies (at least when I graduated), who think that university is the be-all and end-all of everything, as if education is an end in itself, rather than a means to future success. And it is only a means to success if you choose a smart path, i.e. one that will get you a well-paid and rewarding career, whatever that may be. We are already seeing the product of this useless drivel that gets spewn out by these losers - a shortage of skilled tradespeople and technicians, and an over-abundance of people with useless BA's working at McDonalds or at a car wash.  Choose wisely. Unless you plan on taking Engineering, Business, or have what it takes to become a Doctor, you're better off going to college and learning a trade you think you might be interested in. High demand, big bucks, lots of jobs.

As for ROTP..... GO!!!, your comments are not entirely true. Yes, OCdts in the ROTP program only earn about $1,300 per month while in school, and have to pay rations & quarters out of this, but they are still left with $200 or so every couple of weeks to do with what they choose. Are you kidding me?? I would have been a frigging KING if I had that much disposable income when I went to university! Mind you, the RMC-types have to put up with all the crap in their first year, but after that it relaxes quite a bit. And the guys that go to civvie-U's (quite a few now, with only one Military College left), don't have to deal with any of it, except in the summer. Otherwise, they're like any other student. And once they graduate, get their commission, and get posted to a unit, the pay jumps to about $3,800/month ($45,000/year). Pretty good deal, if you ask me. Granted, as you said it is a 9-year commitment, which one must be prepared to make.

 

[blacktriangle]

For someone who is unsure as to their career or life goals, the 10 - 11 year commitment of ROTP would seem a bit much.

Also, no one seems to mention that officers earn less than the privates that work for them for the first 2-4 years, depending on their method of entry. Given that most CF members have short careers, this would be a deciding factor for most applicants - if anyone told them...

You say most CF members have a short career, is that mostly by choice? I honestly hope that if I went regs, I would stay awhile...

I'm probably going straight out of high school..and I have mid-high 70's...

I have also noticed guidance counsellors pushing the university stuff, and I can assure you, stupid STUPID people will leave my school for universities...it's not all about how smart you are.

 

[GO!!!]

You say most CF members have a short career, is that mostly by choice? I honestly hope that if I went regs, I would stay awhile...

Murph,

Good points on the courses to take if you do go to university. The officer pay thing is one that some of the officers really had a beef with though, mainly the fact that the DEO guys get promoted two years earlier, even though they started at the same time! Also, a Private starts at about 38K, and my platoon comd was pretty choked when he found out that some of his Cpls were making 55K - and he was making less.
The decade of service is not a bad thing in itself, but I think it is a big commitment for a 17 year old to make.

Smith,

Yes, most CF members (in the enlisted ranks) quit or are released before or at the six year mark.  This is largely by choice, because, as has been alluded to, this is not an "easy" career, and the stresses on family and body can become insurmountable. No one I know who joined found the army to be exactly what they thought it would be.

 

[blacktriangle]

Murph,

Good points on the courses to take if you do go to university. The officer pay thing is one that some of the officers really had a beef with though, mainly the fact that the DEO guys get promoted two years earlier, even though they started at the same time! Also, a Private starts at about 38K, and my platoon comd was pretty choked when he found out that some of his Cpls were making 55K - and he was making less.
The decade of service is not a bad thing in itself, but I think it is a big commitment for a 17 year old to make.

Smith,

Yes, most CF members (in the enlisted ranks) quit or are released before or at the six year mark.  This is largely by choice, because, as has been alluded to, this is not an "easy" career, and the stresses on family and body can become insurmountable. No one I know who joined found the army to be exactly what they thought it would be.

Thanks. Maybe I can do a cbt arms trade while I am young, and then move to the air force...

 

[Pte AJB]

Why not try to have the best of both worlds? University cities generally have a couple reserve units in them. Joining one of these will give you a good taste of what army life is like while letting you remain free to pursue your education.

Even if you go in as a noncommissioned member, remaining free of the 9-year commitment of ROTP, you can receive a bursary of half or up to $2000 towards your tuition.

If you do decide once you graduate that the army life is for you it is easy enough, (but takes a while to go through) to put in for a component transfer to the Reg. force. Plus if you decide to go officer, the years you spent as a noncommissioned member may give you additional insight on how to be an effective leader.

Cheers, 

PTE AJB

 

[Stauds]

Glenn, I will tell you about my experience with this.

I tried to get into RMC, but I was turned down. Instead of pursuing my original goal of being in the Forces, I felt pressured to go into University. So I went, but after a month of being in it, I knew I should have been trying to get into the military. Right now, I don't have the mind-set to go to university, although I did pull off honors in high school. I made the decision to join the infanty, and I leave for BMQ in a week.

My advice, go with what FEELS right to you. Not what anyone else tells you is right. Think about all your choices and what you would end up with in the future. Even if you did not like your career in the CF, you still have the option of going to university or college 3 years later, with a lot more maturity and discipline than most people coming out of highschool have. I made a dumb decision to go to university, because I felt pressured to. Just don't make that mistake.

 

[Melbatoast]

I'm kind of speaking ahead of myself here, but if I did get in, sure in the future I'd like to achieve some sort of higher education, via the forces or not.

Any input is great appreciated

Thanks,
            Glenn

Now, bear in mind that getting your education while in the Forces is more than plausible, and there are great programs, it can be quite difficult to manage as a junior member.  It's always been a goal of mine to finish university, and I don't have much left to do, but something always comes up.  Oh, I've got to finish this training package, well I could be scheduled for that career course at any time now, well, we're deploying for 6 months and sailing off and on for 3 months afterward.  Before you know it it's several years later and the post secondary is no closer to being finished.  I can't even imagine the uphill struggle of starting a degree from scratch on your own time.

Then, the specific education options once in are kind of limited.  For instance, the University of Manitoba, which offers a very flexible program for serving, high optempo members, has a very limited selection of courses in that program (I can't finish my degree with them for that reason).  You may also find that serving as an NCM for a few years would put you off of going to RMC, which is another of the options.

I'm not offering any more advice, but please keep those points in mind.

 

[GO!!!]

Now, bear in mind that getting your education while in the Forces is more than plausible, and there are great programs, it can be quite difficult to manage as a junior member.  It's always been a goal of mine to finish university, and I don't have much left to do, but something always comes up.  Oh, I've got to finish this training package, well I could be scheduled for that career course at any time now, well, we're deploying for 6 months and sailing off and on for 3 months afterward.  Before you know it it's several years later and the post secondary is no closer to being finished.  I can't even imagine the uphill struggle of starting a degree from scratch on your own time.

Then, the specific education options once in are kind of limited.  For instance, the University of Manitoba, which offers a very flexible program for serving, high optempo members, has a very limited selection of courses in that program (I can't finish my degree with them for that reason).  You may also find that serving as an NCM for a few years would put you off of going to RMC, which is another of the options.

I'm not offering any more advice, but please keep those points in mind.

CFUP at the University of Manitoba has been cancelled, effective April 01 2006. There appears to be no replacement, so getting your degree without being an officer will now be much more difficult.

I've said it before, but there is very little support in the Cbt arms for enlisted men pursuing higher education (maybe it is different in the svc trades) I would not consider this a viable option anymore.

 

[pte.Bullock]

Hey I was/am in that situation and I decided to join the reserves. Im in Hamilton ON and joined the RHLI and started BMQ Feb 3rd and so far im loving it. Its a great thing to do while in transition and dont know what to do because you build amazing mental strength, character, and a few good friends. Another great thing is you can meet people from different MOC's and maby find a trade that your interested in and pursue it in university/college. I myself have recently decided to apply to Niagra for paramedics, something that I can do in the civvy world and if I wish once I have gone through all my training I can do medic training. So yes this is the best choice you can make. One thing though is that you must be prepared, its is mentaly and physically exhausting. If you are going to do this i suggest that you apply for summer BMQ and about one month before you leave start going to bed at 23:00 and getting up at around 0500 and going for a good run and get a good workout. I might suggest after your run you do the exercisesfrom this site, http://www.sivamdesign.com/home/fitness/no_wgts.html. Also your going to make many mistakes when you think you are right and get chewed up for them, dont wimp out, stick with it, do your best, and when you do something wrong confess it. If you do this your instructors I have found have a little more respect for you and go will sometimes make your life a little easier, for example my mcpl covering for me when I didnt lock up my bayonet. If you have any questions feel free to e-mail them to me.


Pte. Bullock