Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[Pusser]

Note that it says that time served in the CF will count toward vacation entitlement in the PS.  As I see it, this is not the same as saying you get to keep your earned vacation if you jump the fence.  For example, I can see the six year veteran of the CF (who has five weeks leave entitlement) still joining the PS with only three weeks vacation and having to wait an additional two years (instead of the previous eight) before being bumped up to four weeks.  It's better, but not as good as some might think.

Of course, I could be misinterpreting something.

 

[dapaterson]

Note that it says that time served in the CF will count toward vacation entitlement in the PS.  As I see it, this is not the same as saying you get to keep your earned vacation if you jump the fence.  For example, I can see the six year veteran of the CF (who has five weeks leave entitlement) still joining the PS with only three weeks vacation and having to wait an additional two years (instead of the previous eight) before being bumped up to four weeks.  It's better, but not as good as some might think.

Of course, I could be misinterpreting something.

That's my read as well - the years of CF service will count as qualifying service towards the thresholds within the collective agreements.

 

[Occam]

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're both saying.  I think you're saying that the CF time would count towards the next increment of leave once you're in the PS, but won't be used to establish the initial amount of leave granted.

If that's the case, then I see a problem with that too.  Person A who has 7 years and 364 days of CF service joins the PS, and gets his 20 working days on his second day as a civvie.  Person B who has 8 years of CF service joins the PS on the same day as Person A, and gets 15 working days vacation for the next 8 years until he reaches the next increment, which is 16 years and 22 vacation days.

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

 

[dapaterson]

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're both saying.  I think you're saying that the CF time would count towards the next increment of leave once you're in the PS, but won't be used to establish the initial amount of leave granted.

If that's the case, then I see a problem with that too.  Person A who has 7 years and 364 days of CF service joins the PS, and gets his 20 working days on his second day as a civvie.  Person B who has 8 years of CF service joins the PS on the same day as Person A, and gets 15 working days vacation for the next 8 years until he reaches the next increment, which is 16 years and 22 vacation days.

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

Yes, you're misunderstanding.  (Or I'm not being clear enough, but I prefer to blame you instead)

Pusser is saying that a CF member with 6 years in (for example) gets 5 weeks of annual leave in the CF.  If they leave and go to the public service, they don't have that five weeks of leave grandfathered.  Rather, they now have five years of service which counts towards reaching the 8 year target of an increase, but that their leave entitlement would still only be the basic 3 weeks per year.

I'm saying that someone with 30 years in who retired and joined the public service three years ago, who up 'til now was getting 3 weeks per year will now be getting 6 weeks per year, but he will not be getting any retro leave for the past three years.


Of course, the devil is always in the details.  The budget refers to "former members of the Canadian Forces".  Arguably, if you're in the Supp Res you're still in the CF.  As are members of the P Res.  Depending on the phrasing of the actual policy, it could act as a negative enticement for folks to join the Supp Res or P Res on leaving the Reg Force - "Join the Reserves or get more leave - your choice."  For Reservists with a lot of prior full-time service who are now public servants, the same conundrum may apply - continue in the Reserves or get more leave.

 

[Occam]

Yes, you're misunderstanding.  (Or I'm not being clear enough, but I prefer to blame you instead)

No problem, I have broad shoulders!  ;D

Pusser is saying that a CF member with 6 years in (for example) gets 5 weeks of annual leave in the CF.  If they leave and go to the public service, they don't have that five weeks of leave grandfathered.  Rather, they now have five years of service which counts towards reaching the 8 year target of an increase, but that their leave entitlement would still only be the basic 3 weeks per year.

I'm saying that someone with 30 years in who retired and joined the public service three years ago, who up 'til now was getting 3 weeks per year will now be getting 6 weeks per year, but he will not be getting any retro leave for the past three years.

Okay, that's how I was reading it too.  However, I can also see someone looking at it (rightly or wrongly) as the aforementioned Compensation Advisor has in bridges' post, in that those who have already made the jump are SOL for past and future consideration of CF service.

Of course, the devil is always in the details.  The budget refers to "former members of the Canadian Forces".  Arguably, if you're in the Supp Res you're still in the CF.  As are members of the P Res.  Depending on the phrasing of the actual policy, it could act as a negative enticement for folks to join the Supp Res or P Res on leaving the Reg Force - "Join the Reserves or get more leave - your choice."  For Reservists with a lot of prior full-time service who are now public servants, the same conundrum may apply - continue in the Reserves or get more leave.

Yeah, that could potentially be messy too.  One can only hope that the forthcoming policy guidance is well thought out and considers most scenarios that can come into play. 

Hey, I still haven't fully completed the "Introduction to the Public Service" mandatory training, so I'm allowed to live in that fantasy world, aren't I?  >

 

[Remius]

Ha! And I haven't completed the DND 101 Orientation.  good times that one is going to be...

 

[Occam]

Ha! And I haven't completed the DND 101 Orientation.  good times that one is going to be...

Our section training coord brought it to the training people, and they waived the DND 101 Orientation for me.  Check into it...

 

[Northern Ranger]

This will be great if it works out to count the my reg force time (21 years) puls my current 5 years in the PS.  Huge money maker for me as right now I do the LIA (leave with income averaging) for 5 weeks in the summer and it costs me about 6500.00.  With 5 weeks leave I won't need to do that.

I had read the NDP push for this in the commons and they said that the RCMP got it why not the Veterans.  Are there any RCMP members on the board that can tell us how it played out for them?

 

[Northern Ranger]

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/in-ai/2010/0504-eng.asp

This is the directive on how they were going to go about the RCMP getting thier credits.  No retro leave, but from 1 Apr 2010 game on for them.

 

[armyvern]

(Or I'm not being clear enough, but I prefer to blame you instead)

Bwahahaha; I so needed that laugh. +300.  :nod:

 

[Occam]

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/in-ai/2010/0504-eng.asp

This is the directive on how they were going to go about the RCMP getting thier credits.  No retro leave, but from 1 Apr 2010 game on for them.

Well, that directive is pretty clear and unambiguous.  Hopefully they implement it with us precisely how they did it with RCMP.  Dropping back to 3 weeks leave was the only "con" when I made the jump...had planned to deal with it by taking 2 weeks unpaid leave, but like you, I hopefully won't have to do that now.

 

[bridges]

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/in-ai/2010/0504-eng.asp

This is the directive on how they were going to go about the RCMP getting thier credits.  No retro leave, but from 1 Apr 2010 game on for them.

Northern Ranger, thanks very much for this ref.  If it's implemented the same way for CF members, it appears as if the afore-quoted compensation advisor had it wrong, and it might apply to all existing PS employees who have CF service - no matter when they joined the PS.

Note that it says that time served in the CF will count toward vacation entitlement in the PS.  As I see it, this is not the same as saying you get to keep your earned vacation if you jump the fence.  For example, I can see the six year veteran of the CF (who has five weeks leave entitlement) still joining the PS with only three weeks vacation and having to wait an additional two years (instead of the previous eight) before being bumped up to four weeks.  It's better, but not as good as some might think.

Of course, I could be misinterpreting something.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that CF mbrs should immediately get (for example) six weeks in the PS, if that's what they had in the CF - just that their CF time should count towards their new PS vacation allotment system.  Which, for the PA group (CR, AS, PM, etc.) is as fol:

0-7 years = 15 days per year
8-15 years = 20 days
16 years = 22 days
17 years = 23 days
18-26 years = 25 days
27 years = 27 days
28+ years = 30 days

Any time of LWOP from the PS reduces the time served, for vacation purposes - including if the LWOP was for military service, although presumably that would change as well.

Again - looking forward to the official details, but this quote from the RCMP implementation looks promising. 

 

[bridges]

PS - I doubt we'll see anything on the TBS site, or any official announcements, before the budget is passed & becomes law. 

 

[Journeyman]

I don't think anyone's suggesting that CF mbrs should immediately get (for example) six weeks in the PS, if that's what they had in the CF

One person seems to be, repeatedly.  :

 

[Remius]

The short answer I got was "Once the TBS guidelines are in place it will be implemented."

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One person seems to be, repeatedly.  :

Like this?

 

[dapaterson]

The short answer I got was "Once the TBS guidelines are in place it will be implemented."

"But I want it now!!!!"

(Where's the temper tantrum emoticon?)

 

[bridges]

One person seems to be, repeatedly.  :

I hope it wasn't me...    :  :facepalm:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

"But I want it now!!!!"

(Where's the temper tantrum emoticon?)

:tempertantrum:

Right where it always is.

 

[dapaterson]

:tempertantrum:

Right where it always is.

I guess I just don't throw temper tantrums as often as you do...