Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[kstart]

Not to be discouraging, but there appears to be some structural challenges re: employment with the Federal Government.  This has to do with the current Federal government's directive to save $4 billion a year to reduce the Federal Deficit (and not to raise taxes, corporate or otherwise reducing tax loopholes for the very wealthy, to keep taxes low):

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2011/08/05/pol-public-job-losses.html?ref=rss

Federal government job cuts: the story so far

The Conservative government has promised to balance the federal budget by 2014 and has asked 68 departments to offer up scenarios for five and 10 per cent reductions to their bottom lines over a three-year period.

Here's how the process was described in an internal message at one department, obtained by CBC News:
"The Strategic and Operating Review provides a focus for us to reflect on how we currently meet our mandate and to explore how we can modernize the way we do business to improve the services that we deliver to Canadians. We would like to call on all of you to look at this as an opportunity to focus, transform and renew our activities so that they are effective, relevant and affordable. We encourage you to speak to your manager should you have any ideas or suggestions."
Cabinet will decide what gets cut prior to the 2012-13 budget next spring. These kind of budget-cutting efforts could eventually result in job losses across the federal civil service. But this review has only just begun, and the job reductions that could result won't be confirmed for months.

Edited: rambling  :-[ (I jump in as a civvy, and then I catch new info, I wasn't aware of at time of posting- sleep deprivation is another factor  :-[  )

New news today re: cuts to DND:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/08/19/pol-dnd-report-cuts.html

So, there's changes re: opportunities, different that before. . .?

I sincerely hope the following announcement pans out to some practical level support for those seeking career transitions:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Minister-MacKay-Announces-Career-Transition-Support-Policy-Severely-Ill-Injured-Canadian-1417677.htm

Best of luck 

 

[The Bread Guy]

If CBC is to be believed, the system still appears to need some tweaking.....

Advocates for Canadian veterans say a priority list aimed at helping injured soldiers get jobs in the public service isn't fulfilling its mandate.

In 2005, the Public Service Commission made veterans and RCMP workers who are released or discharged for medical reasons eligible to be added to a priority hiring list for jobs for which they have qualifications. About 250 veterans were on it as of Monday.

But aside from the Department of National Defence and a small number at Veterans Affairs, few other departments are hiring from the list, say critics including Sean Bruyea, who feels more should be done to help returning soldiers find work in the public sector.

"The public service and government exists because of the protection and security provided by the military," said Bruyea, a retired air force captain. "Let's recognize that and make specific exceptions for large numbers of military, not just a few."
Stigma to priority list

Bruyea also criticizes the fact veterans can only be on the list for two years.

As well, he said, veterans with disabilities are not alone on the list; it also includes employees who became disabled, took a leave of absence, were laid off or reinstated.

As a result, said Bruyea, being on the list stigmatizes people, making it seem they are undesirable potential employees. Managers see only names and not reasons they are on the list.

"The priority hiring list is viewed by many managers throughout the civil service as containing perhaps disaffected employees who will be 'complainers,'" said Bruyea ....

CBC.ca, 19 Dec 11

Some recent veterans who have found work in the public service say they received little support and at times faced hostility from a work culture they say doesn't understand them. Post-traumatic stress disorder is often associated with military service.Post-traumatic stress disorder is often associated with military service. (Mark Dye/Reuters)

Veterans and RCMP employees who are released or discharged for medical reasons are eligible to be added to a priority hiring list for public-sector jobs for which they have qualifications.

But while the public service is sometimes seen as a transition for veterans released from the Canadian Forces, one former veteran CBC spoke with said the two cultures are like "oil and water."

Al, who is currently in the process of resigning from the public service and didn't want his full name revealed, said while the military culture is very goal-oriented, public service culture is almost exclusively process-oriented.

"If you're taking a person off a priority list and putting them into a quote-unquote general population in the public service, I think you're setting that person up for a really rough few years," he said.

"Particularly if there's any operational stress injuries or any things like that because the culture will turn it into a meat grinder for him."
PTSD not well-understood

Some veterans said their military experiences in places like Kosovo or Afghanistan aren't understood by their government employers, especially issues such as post-traumatic stress disorder.

In a military work culture, Al said people tend to give someone space when they see them having a bad day, but then engage if the behaviour persists.

"In the public service, that doesn't exist. Everyone is in their little box. Everyone has their cubicle," he said ....

CBC.ca, 20 Dec 11

 

[dogger1936]

I can understand how mission orientated goal driven folk from the CF have a hard time dealing with processes and lack of goal driven tasks. I honestly see it at the HQ I work in; and can only imagine it would be worse in a PS job.

On a much lighter note the 40,000 a year or 58,000 made me breath a sign of relief. I've honestly been holding on to try and support my family for so long as I could. Having just admitted defeat on the working thing I was devastated and felt like a horrible father and provider for my family...which didn't help with PTSD...needless to say it's been a bad week.

This small announcement really lifted my spirits today.  I've never been one for handouts; alas I am at the point my injuries require it. Thank you Canada for looking after me.

 

[Container]

I had a hard time moving from the CF to the RCMP- I can only imagine what a culture shock it would be to be in the public service. Im glad the program exists- but I wish there was a way to soften folks to how reality in the rest of the government works.

I actually still havent come to terms with alot of directionless shifting I see.

 

[George Wallace]

While this discussion is focused on the "failures" of CF members to integrate into the Civil Service, it ignores the many who have made a successful transition into the Public Service. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Very good point to remember:

While this discussion is focused on the "failures" of CF members to integrate into the Civil Service, it ignores the many who have made a successful transition into the Public Service. 

Never thought of how some transition might be needed.  Even though I've never been wounded, I noticed a HUGE difference in, if nothing else, the pace of public service work compared to the military.  I'm still learning to work on a different "clock".

Maybe some of those who are going through the system now can eventually become mentors for others yet to come through the system.

 

[GAP]

How so Tony.....give me an example....

 

[The Bread Guy]

How so Tony.....give me an example....

In the military, especially at the sharp end, one might expect to get a lot of things done pretty quickly.  In some parts of the public service, "progress" is measured in waaaaaaaay smaller increments of movement on bigger, more complicated projects or problems that require a lot of time to solve.  To someone used to "immediate action" drills, I'm guessing hearing that two weeks is a "fast" turnaround for some paperwork or processes takes getting used to.

Or am I the only one in the PS feeling like Sisyphus many days? 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

2 weeks? Now you are dreaming! I have several large projects I am reviewing, because of starts and stops by industry, some have partially completed environmental assessments, with new components and other interesting complications. Despite being instructed to take risks in the permitting end, I find the that the appetite for risk taking evaporates the further you get from direct outside client integration. I have had to forcefully intervene to stop several self licking circle jerks from forming that where dancing around coming to a conclusion for several weeks.
We have learned not to tell our lawyers about our everyday business practices, as it causes them to to go into convulsions and spew out "advice" that is not grounded in any reality. If we followed our HQ and legal advice to the letter, it would create a noticeable drag on the economy and with this government, mindless, pointless bureaucracy does not earn you much in the way of brownie points.

 

[dapaterson]

An update:  Just saw a briefing on priority hiring across the public service.  Presently there are 1750 (ish) pers in the system eligible for priority hires.  Of those, 250 are CF or RCMP members who were medically released (and there are a handful of surviving spouses of military members on the list as well)

So, overall, medically released CF and RCMP members represent about 14% of the priority list.

 

[Nemo888]

The PWGSC job posting have dried up. I used to get up to 23 a day. Now I get maybe 3 and some days none at all.  Attrition is kicking in. After the next budget they predict about 22,000 losing their positions in Ottawa. 

Yet again vets get screwed. They are even firing physiotherapist at the Montfort. Waits are getting long as the few who are left try to deal with workload. Some of the best are now quitting as they don't think they have any job security. I hope this is partly year end. We'll see after April 1.

So you can't get physio, you can't get a pension and the old standby that you can just jump into an indeterminate position in Federal Government is no longer possible. I talked to John Baird about this on the phone. He told me to come in and get an appointment, but his people decided to blow me off and not return my calls.  There is no party to vote for who has genuine concern about veterans. Only public shows of affection as long as they don't cost anything.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Pretty much sums up every party.

 

[MJP]

The PWGSC job posting have dried up. I used to get up to 23 a day. Now I get maybe 3 and some days none at all.  Attrition is kicking in. After the next budget they predict about 22,000 losing their positions in Ottawa. 

Not just attrition but retention as well.  With the economy down, people are putting of retiring and thus leaving less positions open for priority hiring.  The military experienced this as well as more people than expected stayed thus limiting our recruitment needs (as we have seen in the recruiting forum).

 

[bridges]

My apologies if this has already been discussed elsewhere - it was just drawn to my attention this morning.

Apparently, starting 1 Apr 12, those who get out of the CF and join the public service will now have their CF time credited for civilian vacation time.  This should be a significant draw, as the change from 6 weeks/year (plus Special & Short at XMas-time) to 15 days total, for the first 8 years, was always a major downside of making the switch.

By my reading, though, those who joined the PS before 1 Apr 12 will be held at the lower vacation levels.  Anyone know whether this is an accurate reading?

Public Sector Compensation
"...Starting on April 1, 2012 and on a go-forward basis, the prior years of service of former members of the Canadian Forces who join the public service will be recognized for the purpose of calculating vacation entitlements."

http://www.budget.gc.ca/2012/plan/chap5-eng.html

 

[dapaterson]

Bridges:  my read is that all former CF members will get such credit, but only for public service work on or after 01 April 2012 - that is, the entitlement is not retroactive.

Otherwise, folks who got out & joined the public service a decade ago would be claiming months of leave from prior years.

There's nothing I've been able to find on the TBS website on this (yet); nor have questions to DND's civilian HR folks been answered.  However, it was only announced last Thursday, so I expect it will be a while before the details come out.

 

[Remius]

What dataperson said. 

Too many people are interpreting this the way they think.  Either pay and compensation was aware of this and are ready to go or they were blindsided and are working on something.  Ironically this was something teh NDP was clamouring for and it looks like it was finally decided on.  I for one will see a significant rise in my quality of life if this is the case.

 

[bridges]

I suspect they were blindsided.  At any rate, a co-worker of mine sent a query through the PS Compensation web-based query system this morning - here's what he said afterwards:

"I have asked my Compensation advisor if I am entitled to this and was informed that since I joined the PS in 2008, my 19+ years in the CF will not be counted towards leave entitlement. I was informed that if I were to join the PS as of today's date, then my 19+ years would be counted towards my PS leave calculation."

This could mean that someone joining the PS today after, say, 9 years in the CF would have 4 weeks' vacation, whereas someone who joined last week after, say, 20 years, would have 3 weeks' vacation - and have to work another 8 years before they are bumped up to 4 weeks.

That doesn't seem right.  I look forward to the official interpretation, when it comes.  Thanks to dapaterson for your interpretation and efforts at clarification.

 

[Occam]

Yup, something sure doesn't seem right with that particular interpretation.  I can see where there would be no retroactivity, or people would be crawling out of the woodwork looking for days they would have earned for the last umpteen years.  However, as someone who only made the jump to the PS last year, I don't think it's unreasonable that my 26 years CF service should count from hereafter towards getting me the five weeks vacation instead of the three I have now.

 

[Remius]

Yep.  Expect a string of complaints if that goes through.

 

[Occam]

Yep.  Expect a string of complaints if that goes through.

I would say the unions will have a field day with it.  Ours was trying to negotiate CF service towards vacation time into our next collective agreement, looks like they may not have to now.