Reports say Chinese-made weapons used by Taliban

[kilekaldar]

Reports say Chinese-made weapons used by Taliban

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070912/weapons_china_070912/20070912?hub=TopStories

Updated Wed. Sep. 12 2007 10:56 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Despite allegations that Chinese-made weapons are falling into Taliban hands and further endangering Canadian soldiers, Canada's foreign affairs minister never addressed the issue to his Chinese counterpart during the APEC summit last week, CTV News has learned.

Both U.S. and British officials have questioned China on the weapons, while Defence Minister Peter MacKay acknowledged Wednesday he's worried about the reports.

"We're concerned about any country -- neighbouring country or otherwise -- that embarks in the arming of the Taliban, a terrorist organization," said MacKay in Halifax.

Asked if he had spoken to China about the issue, he replied: "I have not personally spoken directly with the Chinese, but we know that officials are undertaking efforts to verify some of this information as we speak."

U.S. and British soldiers have recovered new armour-piercing roadside bombs, which they allege have been manufactured in China and sent into Afghanistan through Iran.

And just last month, Canadian soldiers say they discovered a Chinese-made mortar near the site of a roadside explosion that killed Pte. Simon Longtin.

In the past six months, 19 Canadian soldiers have died from roadside bombs.

"Unavoidably and unfortunately, Canadian soldiers might be falling victim to those weapons," said Michel Juneau-Katsuya, a former CSIS intelligence officer now with the Northgate Group, a security firm.

Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier travelled with Prime Minister Stephen Harper to Australia last week, to attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation's leaders' summit in Sydney.

But sources told CTV News he never raised concerns about whether Chinese-made weapons were being used against Canadian troops in Afghanistan by insurgents.

"Why didn't Mr. Bernier take the time to ask that question, since Canada and our troops are on the front lines now?" asked Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre.

A former adviser to Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said the government should be pressing the issue with China.

"We should be telling them they have a choice: they can either be friends with the Taliban or they can be friends with us," said Scott Newark.

Earlier this month, an unidentified senior Afghan official acknowledged the problem to the BBC, saying: "Chinese HN-5 anti-aircraft missiles are with the Taliban, we know this... and we are worried where the Taliban gets them. Some of these weapons have been made recently in Chinese factories."

But Lu Shumin, China's ambassador to Canada, denied the allegations.

"Clearly, this is groundless. China has very strict rules on selling our weapons," he said.

With a report by CTV Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife

 

[FullMetalParka]

Chinese weapons are sold everywhere. You can find SKS copies, AK copies, all sorts of things. Fairly cheap as well.

 

[GK .Dundas]

diplomat ( Noun)
a person sent abroad to lie for their country.
But Lu Shumin, China's ambassador to Canada, denied the allegations.

"Clearly, this is groundless. China has very strict rules on selling our weapons," he said.
I believe the definition first appeared in Ambrose Bierce's "the Devils Dictionary"

 

[KevinB]

Chinese weapons are sold everywhere. You can find SKS copies, AK copies, all sorts of things. Fairly cheap as well.

:

Yeah but we are talking about New In the Box weapons still with factory stickers on the box and packing in cosmoline.
  Additionaly - we also not just talking about the occassional AK varient.

Surface to Air Missles, Anti-Tank missles, explosives, and both detonators and advanced triggering devices.

I've been mentioning this here since 2005 when I personally witnessed some seized stuff from China.  Don't be fooled, they are killing our troops and dont GAF what we think or say.

 

[1feral1]

I am sure the Chi-Coms are as guilty as sin!

We had Chinese 107mm rockets, and 82mm HE mortars as guests many times.

...and to think they are having the Olympics next year. What a joke!

Wes

 

[The Bread Guy]

I've been mentioning this here since 2005 when I personally witnessed some seized stuff from China.  Don't be fooled, they are killing our troops and dont GAF what we think or say.

And it appears the CHN-Taliban relationship may have gone back even further than that....

From "Inside the Ring" column, 21 Jun 2002:  "China's military provided training for Afghanistan's Taliban militia and its al Qaeda supporters, according to a U.S. intelligence report.  The intelligence was obtained from anti-Taliban Afghan sources. It was surprising to U.S. analysts because China is a target of Islamic separatists, who are known to have been trained in terrorist camps in Afghanistan.  The training of the Taliban forces took place before September 11. It was carried out in cooperation with Pakistan's ISI intelligence service, defense officials told us.  The report, and others like it, was unwelcome news for some of the pro-China analysts within the U.S. government who are pushing the Bush administration to adopt a more conciliatory posture toward the communist government in Beijing. These officials point to China's cooperation in the war on terrorism, which has included intelligence sharing of limited value.  U.S. intelligence officials do not know why the Chinese provided the military training to Islamic radicals. But some analysts believe it was an attempt to gain influence over the Taliban and al Qaeda ...."

From Harvinder Sahota, "China's Taliban Connection", BHARAT RAKSHAK MONITOR (now known as the "Security Research Review" of India), Volume 4(3), November-December 2001
".... Ever pragmatic, the People’s Republic of China sought to nip the Uighur separatist movement in the bud by engaging its sponsors in Afghanistan. With the escalation of separatist violence across Xinjinag in 1998, China pressurized its Pakistani clients to rein in Islamic terrorists based in Afghanistan. Consequently, Pakistan facilitated contact between the two sides. Five senior Chinese diplomats arrived in Kabul for talks with the ruling Taliban in February 1999, the first of a series of interactions ...."

 

[MG34]

Gee that must be why the 82mm RCL's we found all had Chinese markings on them, come to think of it so did the ammo, and the Chinese bounding Anti-Pers RPG rounds, and the 7.62x39mm and 7.62x54mm PKM ammo, 107 rockets,82mm Mortar rounds, and wait PKMs and Type 56 AKs. Not much of a scoop here by the intrepid reporters. Heck half of the ANA's kit is made in China from the weapons to the body armour some wear.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I am sure the Chi-Coms are as guilty as sin!

We had Chinese 107mm rockets, and 82mm HE mortars as guests many times.

...and to think they are having the Olympics next year. What a joke!

Wes

But we've participated in Olympics in the USA, Russia and France - all of whom export more weapons to equally (or even more) unsavoury regimes.  Why is China different?  Canada sells arms to less than squeaky clean countries, ditto Australia.  Arms are products - generally the 'finished' product with 'embedded' technologies and assemblies from a dozen different suppliers/countries, including goody-two-shoes Canada and Australia.

Oh hypocrisy! Thy name is nationalism.

 

[Jacqueline]

Both U.S. and British officials have questioned China on the weapons, while Defence Minister Peter MacKay acknowledged Wednesday he's worried about the reports.

If the Defence Minister is worried so am I. (a little)  :-\

 

[GAP]

If the Defence Minister is worried so am I. (a little)  :-\

Yeah, but you don't have to deal with the MSM, he does....that's what he's really worried about.

 

[Jacqueline]

Oh, I see. He should be worried about future supplies of weapons being distributed to the Taliban. No?

 

[GAP]

Oh, I see. He should be worried about future supplies of weapons being distributed to the Taliban. No?

It's always an issue where they get their supplies, but see ER Cambell's reply above, that about sums it up

 

[geo]

+1 Edward

 

[KevinB]

Well I will agree in some point to Edward -- however typically the US and Aussie gov't are not exporting to people trying to kill us.

I'd liken it more to the good ole French shipping Exocets to the Argentinians while the Brits where at war with them...

 

[retiredgrunt45]

Well I will agree in some point to Edward -- however typically the US and Aussie gov't are not exporting to people trying to kill us.

Not yet, but wait for it.

Here's a good article on how it how it was implemented during the Reagan years starting in the 80's with Iraq.

Using its allies in the Middle East, Washington funnelled huge supplies of arms to Iraq. Classified State Department cables uncovered by Frantz and Waas described covert transfers of howitzers, helicopters, bombs and other weapons to Baghdad in 1982-83 from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Kuwait.

http://www.counterpunch.org/dixon06172004.html

Things like the sales of weapons almost always come back to haunt.

 

[geo]

Remember... the US used to ship weapons to Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan.
Different times but....

 

[KevinB]

I'm fully aware of that -- life sucks wear a helmet (I do)...

  However there is a HUGE MOTHER FUCKING DIFFERENCE in supplying allies of convenience at a point in time, and supplying our current enemies.  Those who cant figure that out really need to give their head a shake.

 

[1feral1]

I'm fully aware of that -- life sucks wear a helmet (I do)...

  However there is a HUGE MOTHER FUCKING DIFFERENCE in supplying allies of convenience at a point in time, and supplying our current enemies.  Those who cant figure that out really need to give their head a shake.

For Edward, Kevin has the the point I was trying to communicate.

As for the Olympics, in post WW2 times, LA in 96, and Russia in 1980, which Canada boycotted due to AFG.

Paris has not had the Olympics since the 1920's.

Even with China trying to brighten up its image with the Olympics, its a regime which is crooked, bet, and still an enemy in many ways well beyond the deliberate supply of weapons to our current enemies, who are trying to kill us.  Recently they tried to hack into many countries defence sites. A much as I admire their people, I don't trust their government or any of their innocent intentions. China can simply NOT be trusted.

Wes

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
Paris has not had the Olympics since the 1920's.
...

Right, Wes, but France has hosted the Olympics since then: the Winter Olympics.  You remember, Wes, the ones which have real hockey and are, therefore, the Olympics that matter. 

Seriously: China is neither our friend nor our enemy and neither is France. France, in fact, is one of the few nations to have taken active, hostile action against Canada in the past 50 years - in 1967 when the President of France gave his personal aid and comfort to violent separatist groups aimed at destroying Canada.

They - China and France and Russia and the USA - do what they do for their own purpose. China has no interest in doing anything to help the USA (or it allies) to strengthen its position in the Middle East and West Asia. Selling weapons to terrorists is all part of the competition. America is (reported to be, on the rumour net) supporting Uighur separatists in Xinjiang province - it wouldn't surprise me, the CIA's strategic judgement has never been much good.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

However there is a HUGE MOTHER ******* DIFFERENCE in supplying allies of convenience at a point in time, and supplying our current enemies.  Those who cant figure that out really need to give their head a shake.

Sorry Infadel, but it doesn't matter when you sold the weapons. Its like you sold a gun to a person down the street, 2 years later that person sells that gun another person, this second buyer uses that same gun to kill 2 kids on the block. Are you going to say, hell times were different back then, when I sold the gun to the first buyer?

It's no different when nations sell weapons, there is always a chance, down the road, that those very same weapons will find there way into and enemies hands and be used against you, who sold them to the person, who then sold them to your enemy.

Anytime weapons are sold to whoever the seller always stands the chance of being the victim to those very same weapons at any time in the future. History has proven that time and again.