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Replacing the Subs

MTShaw said:
I would add our sudden desire to buy Boeing’s P9 for > $9 billion and OTH radars > $3 billion. Those purchases were not accounted for and gets in the way of yet more social programs. And a government that relies in part on Quebec votes seemed to outright ignore Bomberdier’s whining money pit model.
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It’s not a “sudden desire” to move CMMA forward. The Aurora is 4 decades old. The P-8 line won’t stay open forever. Those 2 roads were intersecting regardless.

Bombardier had ample opportunity to submit against the RFI. They didn’t. Pretty simple.
 
The purchase of the CMMA was in SSE (item #49 - Acquire next generation multi-mission aircraft (CP-140 Aurora maritime patrol aircraft replacement). Funding was accounted for under SSE. Sequencing may be changing, but funding exists.
 
dapaterson said:
The purchase of the CMMA was in SSE (item #49 - Acquire next generation multi-mission aircraft (CP-140 Aurora maritime patrol aircraft replacement). Funding was accounted for under SSE. Sequencing may be changing, but funding exists.
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My point though is that everything has been moved forward.
 
Lumber said:
@Eye In The Sky have the Aurora's ever strapped on any AGM-84s?
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Not to my knowledge. The wing pylons aren’t installed normally. They were on some tails after ASLEP but then removed.

Lumber said:
Do we even have any in Canada? Can a RGM become and Agm just by being connected to a P3's version of AHWCS? Do you guys even have that hardware/software?
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LRP doesn’t have SLAM/SLAM-ER. The current SW and hardware config only supports current bombbay stores; torp and SKAD. Adding something like SLAM or Harpoon would be a significant level-up.

Without getting into CG+ info, this is a decent read: https://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/259/290/318/192/338.pdf
 
JMCanada said:
In the link below there is a 4 pages undated paper (2022?) from Vice-Admiral R. Davidson about Submarine procurement. Short but ticks many points. It brings up the concept of a Heavy Lift Ship for overseas deployments, which had been earlier raised in Starshell review (Aug. 2022).

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Interesting concept, a HLS run by a Royal Canadian Fleet Auxiliary. I suspect it will not be that flexible as the bunks for the subs would need to be pretty much fixed and hard to remove and replace. Basically a sub tender and floating drydock made into one.
 
Colin Parkinson said:
Interesting concept, a HLS run by a Royal Canadian Fleet Auxiliary. I suspect it will not be that flexible as the bunks for the subs would need to be pretty much fixed and hard to remove and replace. Basically a sub tender and floating drydock made into one.
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pardon my lack of knowledge but wouldn't trucking your sub to the vicinity of its patrol area defeat the purpose of having the sub there in the first place: everyone would know where to look or at least where to start looking
 
YZT580 said:
pardon my lack of knowledge but wouldn't trucking your sub to the vicinity of its patrol area defeat the purpose of having the sub there in the first place: everyone would know where to look or at least where to start looking
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In the pacific just getting it to Pearl would be a help, no?
 
YZT580 said:
pardon my lack of knowledge but wouldn't trucking your sub to the vicinity of its patrol area defeat the purpose of having the sub there in the first place: everyone would know where to look or at least where to start looking
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Until someone more knowledgeable replies, I'd imagine that this isn't "edge of patrol area," necessarily (unless the idea is to make someone worry about subs in their AOR), but "Halifax to the Med" or "Esquimalt to Australia" or wherever.

An HLS seems like a useful thing to have around, too: further capacity for things like modular self-powered docks, big RHIBs, small patrol vessels, and whatnot, plus bringing N/S subs home.
 
YZT580 said:
pardon my lack of knowledge but wouldn't trucking your sub to the vicinity of its patrol area defeat the purpose of having the sub there in the first place: everyone would know where to look or at least where to start looking
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You may give up a little bit of OPSEC, but likley no more them that which can be gleamed through social media intelligence and spies.
 
I agree somehow with YZT580, however that should not be an issue during peacetime (maybe >90% of the time?) and would extend either the patrol time or the boat's life.

I wonder if towing the boats could also work. In such a case the solution might be a mix of tender, towing and submarine-rescue ship.
 
JMCanada said:
I agree somehow with YZT580, however that should not be an issue during peacetime (maybe >90% of the time?) and would extend either the patrol time or the boat's life.

I wonder if towing the boats could also work. In such a case the solution might be a mix of tender, towing and submarine-rescue ship.
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Deep sea towing is never fun and prone to mishaps
 
Being reported in Korea that Canada is looking at Korean submarines closely as an option to replace the Victorias. If true, quite interesting.

www.koreatimes.co.kr

Korea eyes submarine deal with Canada

A planned summit between President Yoon Suk Yeol and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is prompting speculation over a potential submarine deal between Korea and Canada as Ottawa plans to replace its aging submarines.
www.koreatimes.co.kr www.koreatimes.co.kr
 
Since the PM is in SK right now he might as well sign a deal for the whole lot

KSS-III
K2
K9
K21
K239

seriously though it might have more to do with trying to save the battery deal
 
An article, quoting VAdm (Ret'd) Norman, succinctly sums up the position in which Canada faces with regards to submarines. In brief, the Canadian public and many of its elected leaders, are not mature enough to have a rational and open discussion about nuclear submarines and their overwhelming advantages, despite the clear threat posed by Communist China.

The article makes points out the astronomical cost, up to $327B over 30 years and technical difficulties posed by nuclear submarines. While not mentioned in thi article, DND still faces recruitment and retention challenges especially with skilled trades as well as the slow procurement process.

My opinion has not changed. The current minority gov't will not consider the purchase of nuclear submarines. The future gov't, probably another minority gov't again, will be in no position to support the purchases of any submarine capability, unless the gov't makes a clear and open discussion about the strategic importance of submarines and direct threat posed by Communist China.
 
calculus said:
Being reported in Korea that Canada is looking at Korean submarines closely as an option to replace the Victorias. If true, quite interesting.

www.koreatimes.co.kr

Korea eyes submarine deal with Canada

A planned summit between President Yoon Suk Yeol and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is prompting speculation over a potential submarine deal between Korea and Canada as Ottawa plans to replace its aging submarines.
www.koreatimes.co.kr www.koreatimes.co.kr
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Atlesst Korean would arrive on time, on budget and not be back in the yard within 6 months with defects
 
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