Replacing the Subs

[Ping Monkey]

I'm genuinely quite keen on seeing where any mutually benefiting Korean-Canadian partnerships may lead.

GDMS-Canada has been exporting ASW sensors and mission systems to the RoK Navy for many years, and DRDC just extended their MOU for further collaboration between our two Defence Science establishments.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1664987800171843584

I personally visit their facilities at least once a year. Great folks... who unfortunately have some weirdo cousins and neighbours.

 

[Spencer100]

The Koreans have shown a remarkable flexibility in adapting to their customers needs and wants. That gives them a significant edge. Having Babcock onboard , likley will cause the Japanese bid to fall away, as the Japanese are very inexperienced in overseas military sales. and starting off with a finicky customer like Canada is not a great way to success.

Too true. Hard to start with Canada as your first ever submarine customer. But then if you can make to work for them everyone else will be easier (baring the US) Plus I don't think the Japanese have ever exported any major combat system land, air or water let alone one of the hardest submarines.

 

[stoker dave]

Just to add perspectve, the positioning a large business will make when there is the prospect of a multi-billion-dollar sale (yes, just the prospect) starts decades in advance. Watch for these companies to start doing things like opening an office in Canada just to have a presence, sponsoring conferences, sponsoring golf tournaments, etc.

People who work in business development take a long view to developing markets and customers for the very, very large projects. This is true for defence and non-defence projects.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I personally visit their facilities at least once a year. Great folks... who unfortunately have some weirdo cousins and neighbours.

Don't we all; theirs's are to the north, ours to the south.

 

[KevinB]

Too true. Hard to start with Canada as your first ever submarine customer. But then if you can make to work for them everyone else will be easier (baring the US) Plus I don't think the Japanese have ever exported any major combat system land, air or water let alone one of the hardest submarines.

Japan up to this week was bared from export of military equipment by national law. They however have seen Russia and China and decided that maybe they should do a U turn.

 

[OldSolduer]

Don't we all; theirs's are to the north, ours to the south.

Don't be too hasty to judge. The US/UK and Australia aren't looking too kindly upon us right now.

 

[lenaitch]

This just in:

"Bombardier tells the government they have a viable concept and and any proposal to purchase submarines should be open to include benefits to domestic industries".

 

[OldSolduer]

This just in:

"Bombardier tells the government they have a viable concept and and any proposal to purchase submarines should be open to include benefits to domestic industries".

View attachment 78148

Would the Bomardier sub have screen doors as well?

Oh and Bombardier execs should be banished to Siberia but that would really piss Vlad off

 

[Furniture]

Would the Bomardier sub have screen doors as well?

Oh and Bombardier execs should be banished to Siberia but that would really piss Vlad off

They're likely better than anyone he has around on his team...

 

[Underway]

The CRCN was doing townhalls with the various categories of rank this last week (JR's, CPO/PO's, Jr Officers, and Snr Officers).

Sub info coming from those meetings basically said that DND is pushing hard for submarines. I expect they are in the new Defence Policy that's under review. From what I hear its going to be a MOTS purchase. The RCN will adjust to the submarine not adjust the submarine to us.

It ties in with this whole expected submarine purchase stuff from Korea.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The CRCN was doing townhalls with the various categories of rank this last week (JR's, CPO/PO's, Jr Officers, and Snr Officers).

Sub info coming from those meetings basically said that DND is pushing hard for submarines. I expect they are in the new Defence Policy that's under review. From what I hear its going to be a MOTS purchase. The RCN will adjust to the submarine not adjust the submarine to us.

It ties in with this whole expected submarine purchase stuff from Korea.

Maybe we can get the SK to open a KIA or Hyundai car plant in Laval as part of the deal, throw in an Canadian tour by Psy and its a done deal.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The CRCN was doing townhalls with the various categories of rank this last week (JR's, CPO/PO's, Jr Officers, and Snr Officers).

Sub info coming from those meetings basically said that DND is pushing hard for submarines. I expect they are in the new Defence Policy that's under review. From what I hear its going to be a MOTS purchase. The RCN will adjust to the submarine not adjust the submarine to us.

It ties in with this whole expected submarine purchase stuff from Korea.

So they are accepting the proposal from 9yrs ago from this chap - LCdr A.J. March

This paper will explore some of the potential risks associated withthe various possible replacement options and will show that the optimum solution for Canada is to procure a minimally modified Military Off The Shelf (MOTS) design, builtoff-shore, but supported in Canada

https://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/259/290/301/305/march.pdf

 

[Underway]

It was always an option, and likely the only one given we've never build or ordered a submarine to our specs in our entire history. Read up on CC1 and CC2 the first RCN subs. Probably the fastest procurement process in Canadian history. And done by BC, not the Federal Gov't!

 

[KevinB]

I still wish Canada would jump feet first into AUKUS. If I were King, I’d sacrifice an Army CMBG for it, and a bunch of PRes CBG’s.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I still wish Canada would jump feet first into AUKUS. If I were King, I’d sacrifice an Army CMBG for it, and a bunch of PRes CBG’s.

I... I just cant believe it...

 

[KevinB]

I... I just cant believe it...

Knowing how I feel about the Army, you can see what the concept of SSN’s for the RCN means for me.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Knowing how I feel about the Army, you can see what the concept of SSN’s for the RCN means for me.

I have to say I’d agree here too. The RCN and RCAF are both forces that get used extensively at home AND abroad, while the army is largely expeditionary. By downsizing the army into a specialized force like CSOR (for example) and a training role, maybe most of the rest of the members could be rotated into either the Air Force or Navy, while a good deal of the equipment could be divested. The OP Lentus style missions here at home could be handled by a new federal civil service that specializes in disaster response as opposed to combat and the RCMP could take care of the peacekeeping. I’m sure there are a million reasons that I’m missing why this wouldn’t work, but it seems to me that more money in a tight budget should be spent on capabilities we use everywhere.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Knowing how I feel about the Army, you can see what the concept of SSN’s for the RCN means for me.

Oh I get it! We've debated before my feeling that Canada does not need an expeditionary army.

Anyways

 

[YZT580]

I have to say I’d agree here too. The RCN and RCAF are both forces that get used extensively at home AND abroad, while the army is largely expeditionary. By downsizing the army into a specialized force like CSOR (for example) and a training role, maybe most of the rest of the members could be rotated into either the Air Force or Navy, while a good deal of the equipment could be divested. The OP Lentus style missions here at home could be handled by a new federal civil service that specializes in disaster response as opposed to combat and the RCMP could take care of the peacekeeping. I’m sure there are a million reasons that I’m missing why this wouldn’t work, but it seems to me that more money in a tight budget should be spent on capabilities we use everywhere.

Except that there is absolutely no reason to modernize and properly equip our total armed forces to meet the glaringly obvious threats confronting the democratic world. We have just spent close t0 30 billion dollars on just two battery factories. They won't ever be needed if the threats aren't neutralized. But spend wisely. We are in desperate need of two levels of weaponry: those we can buy in short order to provide a proper defense posture and then the stuff in long range to maintain that level of deterrence.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Except that there is absolutely no reason to modernize and properly equip our total armed forces to meet the glaringly obvious threats confronting the democratic world. We have just spent close t0 30 billion dollars on just two battery factories. They won't ever be needed if the threats aren't neutralized. But spend wisely. We are in desperate need of two levels of weaponry: those we can buy in short order to provide a proper defense posture and then the stuff in long range to maintain that level of deterrence.

Of course that makes sense, as well. From that angle, I’d say that we assess what’s needed largely for home defence, be it an enhanced group for Arctic activities and an ABM battery string on all the coasts etc. I guess I’m just questioning the need for a traditional army with a large mechanized force that would be of little use here in Canada. We would never be the only force in theatre in a lane war anywhere else, and a lot of our allies are better equipped and suited to that task. I think we find niches where we can fill the gaps to fulfill our obligations to NATO or the UN. There seems to be a weakness in logistics at sea, for instance. We could jump on that and be a valued member of any effort with a much easier sell to the public. If you’re selling your electorate on the fact that you’re setting up as a transport oriented military ally, there’s less of an uproar from the unaware. The thing is, you need to also protect that logistics group so it’s necessary to also purchase subs, surface assets and surveillance uavs etc.

I’m rambling. But somewhere up above, I think there’s a point.