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RCAF Fighter Sqn ReOrg

dimsum

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Heck, let's go full New Zealand and disband the fighter force altogether. 

No more Cold Lake/Bagotville postings would probably make some people pretty happy  ;)
 

SupersonicMax

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Most people posted to Bagotville end up being really happy.  A 250,000 people in the immediate area, lots to do for all interests and 2 hrs from Quebec City.

It is really the best kept secret in the RCAF.

Cold Lake on the other hand...
 
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angus555

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Dimsum said:
Heck, let's go full New Zealand and disband the fighter force altogether. 

No more Cold Lake/Bagotville postings would probably make some people pretty happy  ;)

Yes.

I think we could even refuel the Bear bombers instead of turning them around...good for the economy.  ;D
 

PuckChaser

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Til Valhall said:
Yes.

I think we could even refuel the Bear bombers instead of turning them around...good for the economy.  ;D
Only if they're probe and drogue.
 
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angus555

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PuckChaser said:
Only if they're probe and drogue.

Bob's your uncle

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dapaterson

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Move the entire fighter community to Mirabel.  Send a six pack for three months at a time to Cold Lake / Bagotville.  Voila.  Long term career stability.  Close to a major urban area for spousal employment.  Colocated with the maintenance facility.
 

Old Sweat

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Does your six pack include the maintainers and the rest of the support trades that keep the birds flying? I sense the presence of several unseen alligators in this lagoon
 

dapaterson

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Old Sweat said:
Does your six pack include the maintainers and the rest of the support trades that keep the birds flying? I sense the presence of several unseen alligators in this lagoon

Yes. Treat it as a deployment.  Turn the bases into FOLs; keep only a small custodial crew in location.

Of course, GoC would likely object to closing two bases...
 

PuckChaser

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dapaterson said:
Yes. Treat it as a deployment.  Turn the bases into FOLs; keep only a small custodial crew in location.

Of course, GoC would likely object to closing two bases...
How long would it take for the fighter pilots to complain that they should get higher hardship and risk levels than the maintainers when deployed to Cold Lake? My vote is Roto 2.
 

Downhiller229

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PuckChaser said:
How long would it take for the fighter pilots to complain that they should get higher hardship and risk levels than the maintainers when deployed to Cold Lake? My vote is Roto 2.

Yes pilots are degenerates and crybabies, they can barely handle the rigors of airforce life as it is  ::)
 

SupersonicMax

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dapaterson said:
Move the entire fighter community to Mirabel.  Send a six pack for three months at a time to Cold Lake / Bagotville.  Voila.  Long term career stability.  Close to a major urban area for spousal employment.  Colocated with the maintenance facility.

As a Government, how do you justify stripping a town (Cold Lake) of a third of their residents and half of its economy?

As DND, how do you convince the People that we still need the CLAWR when there is no-one using it on a regular basis?

As the RCAF, where do you train for large-ish (4v4) scale employment?  Which airspace are we going to use that is big enough to accomodate 5 Squadrons? Who's going to man the other DOBs and FOLs?  The same guys that just got back from Cold Lake?  Who's going to go and support the JTAC courses in Wainwright, US and Gagetown?  What about exercises?  As it is, a Fighter Pilot is away for the better part of 4-6 months a year.  Adding 3 months on top of that isn't going to help the family life.

More importantly:  where is the infrastructure to support 76+18 CF-18 in Mirabel?
 

MilEME09

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Would make more sense for the government to make investment's into the long term economic viability of our two fighter towns. They aren't going anywhere, if we ever see the day of the RCAF expanding it's fighter force then maybe a third fighter base will be called upon, that is unlikely though, even in my life time.
 

Rifleman62

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How long would it take for the fighter pilots to complain that they should get higher hardship and risk levels than the maintainers when deployed to Cold Lake?

And a medal.


As a Government, how do you justify stripping a town (Cold Lake) of a third of their residents and half of its economy?

It's Western Canada, it's Alberta. Who cares in Ottawa?
 

SeaKingTacco

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SupersonicMax said:
As a Government, how do you justify stripping a town (Cold Lake) of a third of their residents and half of its economy?

As DND, how do you convince the People that we still need the CLAWR when there is no-one using it on a regular basis?

As the RCAF, where do you train for large-ish (4v4) scale employment?  Which airspace are we going to use that is big enough to accomodate 5 Squadrons? Who's going to man the other DOBs and FOLs?  The same guys that just got back from Cold Lake?  Who's going to go and support the JTAC courses in Wainwright, US and Gagetown?  What about exercises?  As it is, a Fighter Pilot is away for the better part of 4-6 months a year.  Adding 3 months on top of that isn't going to help the family life.

More importantly:  where is the infrastructure to support 76+18 CF-18 in Mirabel?

Cold Lake is in Alberta. This Govt is not demonstrably concerned with anything that happens, economically, in that province.
 

SeaKingTacco

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SupersonicMax said:
Should it make a difference?

Max, I think even you can agree that defence policy wrt fighters in Canada stopped making military sense a long time ago.

Even this half baked proposal is a better idea than buying used Australian Hornets...
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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SupersonicMax said:
As a Government, how do you justify stripping a town (Cold Lake) of a third of their residents and half of its economy?

Oh! I don't know. Perhaps they should ask the people of Summerside how you go about doing that.

You have to be careful here: Either the job of the military is to defend the country or it is to provide economic opportunities for civilians, regardless of defence needs (OK, it's not quite a "either-or" situation, I know). But you cannot simply continue a military activity somewhere that doesn't make military sense just to provide for the local economy. Manufacturing single-employer-of-the-town has closed more towns in Canada than the military has. Those towns downsized and somehow survived. The loss of fisheries in small Newfoundland villages has been a lot more devastating.

However, Cold Lake is here - now - and it is useful still in military terms. That the same could be done from somewhere else does not justify closing it.

As for Bagotville: I agree, Max: Best kept secret in the RCAF. Nice town, lots to do, close to Quebec City. And on top of that, if it didn't exist, how would all those strapping young Canadian flyers find those beautiful French Canadian galls to marry?  ;D
 

McG

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SupersonicMax said:
As a Government, how do you justify stripping a town (Cold Lake) of a third of their residents and half of its economy?
Is it the federal government’s job to provide residents to isolated Canadian communities? If yes, why does Cold Lake deserve such a large concentrated chunk when so many other communities go with no federally provided residents? If the federal government does not owe communities a population infusion, then your point here is moot.
 
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