Pushups- Try Reading Here First- Merged Thread

[Munxcub]

Now about over training in regards to "Greasing the Groove" (Pavel's plan there, doing many sets throughout the day) The way it works is by not going to failure. If hitting 30 is failure, you go to 25 or so. By not going to failure, you aren't going to experience the over training that you describe. This allows you to get huge volume, without the risk (or at least minimizing that risk to such a negligible amount...) Every week you increase the reps, until before you know it, you are doing more push ups without hitting failure then you used to be able to do as your failure limit. Make sense? It does work.

I believe it was originally devised as a way for Russian soldiers to increase their pull up count.

 

[Munxcub]

The thing about infinite load compared to finite intensity/volume is that as load increases, you approach your intensity/volume limits faster. Also, as conditioning improves, would you not be increasing that finite ceiling of volume/intensity?

 

[beands]

I have yet to drop off an application, but am working very hard on the physical preparations. I am by no means an expert on the subject, however this is my method:

Do as many CF regulation style push-ups as possible plus 2 more where you fight and grunt the whole way up.
Wait 10 minutes or so and then I do as many wide push-ups where my hands are double shoulder width apart, again adding 2 more beyond that. Wait 10 minutes again.
For the 3rd repetition, I use the hand triangle style, where your index fingertips and thumb tips touch to make a diamond or triangle shape. Do as many again, plus only one extra. The triangle type are very difficult I find, so I do those on my knees "girly style". Once at 20 push-ups, stop using your knees and work on a lower number again as these are difficult.
I do the 3 different styles as many times a day as I can possibly find time for. Usually about 4 times a day.
Using this method I have had great results in increasing my number of push-ups, going up by about 3 push-ups a day.

Once again I am no pro, but from what I have done I don't see any risk of injury. I'm fine so far.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

To a degree as you train, you augment the ceiling of productive volume, but like I said, volume can be infinite in the sense that you can do 100 sets of 1000reps each, but there is a point where adding more volume doesn't lead to improvement, and that's why I specified productive sets.

If you do 20 sets to "blast" your chest already, then how can adding another 5 be benefitial.  Its akin to runners, there is a point of equilibrium between training and recuperating, runners can run to many kms in a week for there own good, this is the same with weight training/strength training.  Its the common thought of, "if 10 is good, 20 must be better." When the benefits to number of sets do not correlate in a linear fashion.

But my point about load being infinite, is that, this is a better point of contention for improvement, in that if I was able to do exercise K with 100lbs for 10reps as my max, well if in 1 month I am using 125lbs for my 10RM, I have clearly improved, and can continue to do so greatly by picking appropriate exercises, and by always striving to a) increase the load, and b)always aiming for roughly the same amount of repetitions.  This reasoning goes with the physiology of muscles, in that when you try to lift a weight, your muscles can do 1 of 2 things, tear completely off the bone, or 2 adapt to the demands you are setting upon it, by getting denser and stronger.

As opposed to trying to do 20 sets, and time myself to see how fast I accomplished them or tacking on more sets, you do not see clear progress in the chosen venue, namely strength (there are many kinds of strength, in this case maximal and submaximal).  Olympic Weightlifters and many other strength trainers, use percentages when they train:
100% = 1 rep max
90% =
80% =
70% = usually 10RM
60%
50% = 15+ reps.

And there are recommended numbers of reps that a trainee shouldn't exceed, because phisiologically after that point it hampers instead of helping.  These are guidelines, because genetically we're all granted different combinations of types of muscle fibers, so it would most likely be give or take 1-3 reps.  

good informational sites to check out for various training articles
www.bodybuilding.com
www.intensemuscle.com
www.t-nation.com
www.deepsquatter.com

"In general, most people can complete 6 repetitions with 85% of their maximum resistance, 8 repetitions with 80% of maximum resistance, 10 repetitions with 75% of maximum resistance, 12 repetitions with 70% of maximum resistance and 14 repetitions with 65% of maximum resistance."

 

[Munxcub]

I agree with that. So what I said earlier would probably strike the best balance between your stance and mine. Training the bench with heavy loads to increase the maximum strength (and increasing potential stamina) and also working push ups for the muscular endurance.

Bench = more strength for push ups, make push ups easier
Push ups = more push ups, more muscular endurance to do push ups all day and still be ready for whatever

That's basically how I train everything. Have max effort days for building the strength, then I have have workouts that involve lighter loads, more reps and faster pace to increase stamina. Because ultimately the goal in "getting fit" involves a lot more then simply "getting strong". You need to be strong, fast, powerful, lots of stamina and endurance, agile, coordinated, good balance and flexibility as well as accurate in everything you do (comes back to coordination and others...).

 

[Pte.Butt]

I have trouble doing push ups, see 3 years ago, I had a bad wrist injury playing soccer ( I am a goalkeeper) and since then I have very limited motion in my right wrist. I can't bend my wrist more then 45 - 50 degrees. This is a big problem with pushups, seeing my right arm wont be able to be strait as I do my push ups during BMQ because most of my weight will be concentrated on my left arm because my right wrist hurts tremendously.
  You may ask how I completed my enrollment PT test, well I had physio therapy on my side, in the previous months before I applied for the CF. It gave me more movement in my wrist which allowed me to do my 19 push ups +. But a recent soccer injury (yes another one) rectified my injury, and know I find it very difficult to do more then 5-6 because I can hardly put any weight on my wrist. During BMQ will I be forced to do push ups the same way I had to for enrollment? Or can I do them on my fist/knuckles which I can do significantly more then using my injured wrist?

 

[medaid]

Pte.B,

  You've around here for a while right? What do we always tell the people with questions after we give our advice? We tell them to go seek competent medical advice. It is not saying that those of use who work in the medical field are not compotent, it means that our opinions and advice aren't really worth allot sometimes because it isn't up to us. So MY advice is for you to talk to your family physician with regards to your injury (something that should've been done when you got injured the second time) and or talk to your local MIR and seek military medical opinion on your current and pre-existing medical condition as that would go towards previous medical history. Have the powers that be decide medicaly what the best course of action would be for you. Sometimes it is not worth further injuring yourself for a course or a job you may not have after a debilitating injury.

 

[Pte.Butt]

Pte.B,

  You've around here for a while right? What do we always tell the people with questions after we give our advice? We tell them to go seek competent medical advice. It is not saying that those of use who work in the medical field are not compotent, it means that our opinions and advice aren't really worth allot sometimes because it isn't up to us. So MY advice is for you to talk to your family physician with regards to your injury (something that should've been done when you got injured the second time) and or talk to your local MIR and seek military medical opinion on your current and pre-existing medical condition as that would go towards previous medical history. Have the powers that be decide medicaly what the best course of action would be for you. Sometimes it is not worth further injuring yourself for a course or a job you may not have after a debilitating injury.

Alrighty, thanks a lot MedTech, this thread is done now, if you wish you lock it.

 

[bms]

Push ups aren't always easy, especially when you are starting them after a sizable period of not doing them regularly. That being said, I have formulated a relatively easy-to-do method to reach that magical number of 50 consecutive push ups. I doubt I am the first to think of this method, but I do believe that it is beneficial to people who are looking for a way to increase their push ups in a way that is very easy to create a routine out of.

First off, there is a base table of sets and reps.

Week # - (SETS/REPS/TOTAL)

1 - (8/6/48)
2 - (6/8/48)
3 - (5/10/50)
4 - (4/12/48)
5 - (4/14/56)
6 - (3/17/51)
7 - (2/24/48)
8 - (1/50/50)

What this table means is that, for example, on week 1 you do 6 push ups consecutively 8 times(with short breaks for stretching in between sets), which results in 48 push ups in total. You do this amount of push ups in that manner once a day for that week. The way to follow the table is to take approximately 12 minutes a day, 6 days a week. One thing you may notice is that on the table you pass 50 push ups on two occasions. This is mainly due to the nature of always increasing your reps until you are doing a single set of 50 push ups at week 8.

The point of continuing at 50 push ups for week 8 is to stimulate you to continue to try and go higher. For example, after you can do 50 push ups comfortably, perhaps the table below is another goal:

Week # - (SETS/REPS/TOTAL)

1-5 (2/50/100)
6-10 - (3/50/150)
10-16 - (2/75/150)
17 - (1/100/100)

Basically, the point that comes across is that you can slowly work into a decent number of push ups at your own pace. For example,

Week # - (SETS/REPS/TOTAL)

1-3 - (8/6/48)
4-6 - (6/8/48)
7-9 - (5/10/50)
9-11 - (4/12/48)
12-14 - (4/14/56)
15-17 - (3/17/51)
18-22 - (2/24/48)
23 - (1/50/50)

The table above is just the base table with longer intervals doing the same sets/reps. The whole idea is to gauge the sets/reps to get the results you want in a reasonable time span. The trick is to start with easy numbers. Then with an increase, it will hopefully feel basically the same. Then with another increase, and so on.

The base table is what I used, and I am happy with the results. I plan I continuing to use this method to increase the number of push ups I can do consecutively to hopefully over 200 by the time I apply(next year).

I hope whoever needs a method that is pretty easy to stick by to increase the number of push ups that can do will also be satisfied withh this method, and hopefully be able to derive from it to fit their needs.

 

[private_nobody_yet]

Thank you for that one...
is it better building them with the "hands wide" method, easier than "hands under your shoulders" one.
and at 50 there should be no problem doing the the "CF" way?

 

[bms]

These are properly done push ups(aka, the way depicted in the video).

Hands under the shoulders, push up and lock the elbows, down to just touch your chest to the floor, then back up.

This is meant to be an easy way to set a goal, and takes no more than 20 minutes daily. Nothing fancy, just lots of push ups.

 

[asoldieroneday]

  I know that this hard, because when I first found out I was doing them wrong and did them the right way I was only able to do 7 and that was unacceptable for my standards as well, but with hard work and persistence I was able to do 15 of them at my physical test which is not too bad I guess since I only needed to do 7.   

I am currently training for possibly joining the reserves later this year, I'm only 15 right now. I'm workin on the pushups right now, they're my worst and I keep worrying I'm doing them wrong. How was it you were doing them that was wrong?

I do them with my hands under my shoulders, fingers pointing out, down till my chest is just off the floor. Right now, I can do 12, but last week, I was barely makin 5 lol. I'm female 5'6 and 120ish btw.
Do you think I'm progressing well and doing them properly?

Thanks to whoever posts back.

 

[midget-boyd91]

Right now, I can do 12, but last week, I was barely makin 5 lol.
Do you think I'm progressing well and doing them properly?

You've more than doubled the number you can do in just a week.. thats progressing rather well. Keep at what you're doing and they'll start to come easier, and you'll notice that soon you'll be able to do 15, then 20, 25, 30 etc. It takes effort and time, but what doesn't?

 

[asoldieroneday]

okay thanks! I'm just reallllly nervous.
I think I have the sit-ups okay(25 for sure,how many more varies) mind you I have my feet hooked under something, but I'm slowly gettin away from that. I'm pretty sure I have the running, I can do 4km in about 18mins and 100m in about 14s.

I'm not even attempting pull-ups till I get more pushups under my belt.

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

Your feet will be pinned by another person for your situp evaluation.

 

[Lumber]

You read correctly.  The hands have to be under the shoulders.  I know that this hard, because when I first found out I was doing them wrong and did them the right way I was only able to do 7 and that was unacceptable for my standards as well, but with hard work and persistence I was able to do 15 of them at my physical test which is not too bad I guess since I only needed to do 7.  Good luck with that and don't beat yourself up over it.  It will come to you.

From the CFRC to the Mega and finally here at RMC, I have been told that my hands do not need to be directly underneath the shoulder. The way they did it at the Mega and here at the college, they got us to lie on our stomachs and as long as they couldn't see our thumbs, then our hands were in tight enough.

From what I've been told, the hope is that the push-ups will tax the worked muscles as much as possible (shoulders, tris and chest). We don't have our hands out with so that no one with a massive chest, but weak shoulders, can pull off a lot of push-ups. Its suppose to be a test of combined muscles, not just one. At least this is what I've been told, but I agree and it sounds like a good aim. Taking that in mind, I don't think having the hands directly under the shoulders is such a good thing. I can pull off a good amount of push-ups (60-70), and having the hands directly under the shoulders causes considerablly more strain on the shoulders and elbow joints. It doesn't work the chest as much as it should. At least thats my 2 cents.

I'm not even attempting pull-ups till I get more pushups under my belt.

Pull-ups and push ups work different muscles groups. Pull-ups work your back, shoulders and biceps, while push-ups work chest, shoulders and tri-ceps.

 

[metgirl]

The  plain  and  simple truth is  They  will teach you the proper push up . If you  cant do one  now  in the first  two weeks of BMQ  you will  do about 300 a day  and in no time  you will have a good form .  What they want is a tricep push ups  hands under arm pits .

 

[Lumber]

The  plain  and  simple truth is  They  will teach you the proper push up . If you  cant do one  now  in the first  two weeks of BMQ  you will  do about 300 a day  and in no time  you will have a good form .  What they want is a tricep push ups  hands under arm pits .

I've been told by PSP staff to be weary when I do tricep push-ups during testing because people who do tricep push ups tend to pivot their bodies at the waste instead of at the toes.

When I do my push ups for testing, I have my arms in tight, but not so tight that they are tricep push-ups. It creats a good mix of what muscles are being used, so that I don't rely on just one muscle (aka the Tricep).

And I have to disagree with your assertion that they want Tricep push ups, with hands directly under the armpits. As I said I can pull off 60-70, and I've done that for 7 fitness tests so far, and I've had them not count at most 1 push up. So if they want tricep push ups, with hands under arm pits, how am I getting away with 60, with only my thumbs under my armpits?

 

[metgirl]

im not going to disagree they are much more  difficult(the pivoting is a pain)  but they are asking for 19 ( for men) not 60  i know its far easier  to do a  good 25-30 pump push up  . I know  for my cf express test  It was the tricep  I went  from a  barly 7  to a  good  19  (female)  by the end of BMQ

 

[pspforester]

The proper protocol is hands under the shoulder area ( I know, very clear).  The staff will look to see that your thumb and finger are under the area.  In other words, you cannot have your hands totally exposed, or totally under the shoulder (ie. tricep push-ups).  You pivot from the toes, body is kept in a straight line (there can be incidental contact, ie. stomach/chest, without pausing),  and the triceps must be parallel to the floor (not 90 degrees/ people have different arm lengths).  If there are any other questions, let me know. 

Cheers.