PRE DEPLOYMENT STRESS

[SemperFidelis]

Hey all...I was hoping someone could give me advice on how to deal with this situation...a friend of a really close friend of mine in the states tried to commit suicide due to pre-deployment stress (hes going to Iraq soon) and I just feel so helpless to my best buddy...I dont know what to say or do? I told him Ill be there for him anyway I can and whatever he needs Ill be there for him.  Appart from that, I dont know what to do or how to go about the situation.  Anyone been in this situation or dealt with it...that could give some advice?  If so that'd be greatly appriciated.. :'(

 

[KevinB]

:  Tell him to do it and get over with stop the grandstanding drama.
Sorry I refuse to believe a trained soldier cannot effectively take his own life.  You are given many opportunities during training if you where so inclined.

I'd chalk it up to ATTENTION seeking...
  Get him On Combat by Col Dave Grossman - read it, soldier on and STFU.

 

[strongchristian]

I disagree completely. He could have depression or other untreated issues, and this is now a situation which is pushing him overboard. He should go talk to a doctor ASAP.

 

[SemperFidelis]

:   Tell him to do it and get over with stop the grandstanding drama.
Sorry I refuse to believe a trained soldier cannot effectively take his own life.   You are given many opportunities during training if you where so inclined.

I'd chalk it up to ATTENTION seeking...
   Get him On Combat by Col Dave Grossman - read it, soldier on and STFU.

ummm the book is called On Killing ....

 

[SemperFidelis]

He's in the phsych ward right now...this only happen Mon night....I dont know how to really approach my buddy (it was his friend who tried this) Im asking how to more deal with helping him get throug this , and help him to talk about it so he doesnt repress feelings or thoughts, ...how do I make sure that he stays open and communicative...I dont want s*it to hit his fan too if u catch my drift

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

No one on the internet can help you or your friend with this, he sounds like he/she is where he/she should be right now, let them look after it.

 

[beltfeedPaul]

If your buddy is unstable enough to try and take his own life because he has to do his job and deploy, hopefully a quick discharge is the outcome. For his sake, and the sake of others who may have to rely on him.

 

[Sapper41]

My question is what are his peers and/or his chain of command doing about this matter, are they even aware.  I'm not sure what the US DAG process is like, but in Canada this guy would DAG redder than red (meaning undeployable) for even the suggestion of suicide.  I know his fellow soldiers deserve more than to have to carry this guy for the whole tour if he can barely function back home.  

That being said I'm happier than hell I've never had to go over seas for longer than 7 months and I've always had a good support system.  I'm glad we are protected from redeploying for at least a year instead of the US meat grinder were guys are already heading back for their second tour in Iraq.  I'm also a reservist which gives me the luxury of only going on tours that I actually put my hand up for...knock on wood.

The reality is we don't need an Army of canteen queens, I'm sorry your broken but the exit door is this way.  I feel bad for this guy, but he needs to look into the mirror and do a gut check either get all the way in or get all the way out.  Get him to see a Doc and if he is undeployable and the 'Army' broke him then Veterans Affairs should give him all the help he needs to get on with life.  

My two cents.

Chimo!

 

[beltfeedPaul]

Chimo, that is the difference between the CF and the US Army and the Marines. They don't have wet nurse nonsense protocols and assements to determine whether or not a soldier is ready to deploy. You sign up, you go. Thats our weakness, when I was in Cyprus 20 odd years ago, we had a number of guys sent back, "my wife left me" "my dog died" "I cant take painting rocks blue around the Ledra", whatever the excuse, some pandering new age padre or peckerhead 2LT was there to listen to the whine. My grandpa signed up in 1940,(artillery) was sent to England, and was there until almost 1946! Who in todays army would stand for that! Moral fibre is whats lacking.

 

[Armymedic]

:   Tell him to do it and get over with stop the grandstanding drama.
Sorry I refuse to believe a trained soldier cannot effectively take his own life.   You are given many opportunities during training if you where so inclined.

I have to agree with Kevin..
The guy is threatening to end his life so that he doesn't have to go to Iraq where he might get killed...


My answer (and yes this is heartless but he is an adult who can make his own choices), quit being a coward and get on with one of them.

My question is what are his peers and/or his chain of command doing about this matter, are they even aware.  I'm not sure what the US DAG process is like, but in Canada this guy would DAG redder than red (meaning undeployable) for even the suggestion of suicide.  I know his fellow soldiers deserve more than to have to carry this guy for the whole tour if he can barely function back home.

The US chain doesn't really care, particularly if this kid has never been there before. If he has, then he has a leg to stand on.

 

[AmmoTech90]

ummm the book is called On Killing ....

The book about killing is called On Killing.  The book KevinB is refering to is about combat and it's stress and is called On Combat.  See below.
http://www.killology.com/on_combat.htm

 

[paracowboy]

is anyone surprised that I agree with Kevin and the Doc?

 

[SeanPaul_031]

I agree with Kevin and the Doc as well with this guy:

hopefully a quick discharge is the outcome. For his sake, and the sake of others who may have to rely on him.

Do you think any soldier would want to have to be in a fox hole with this type of guy beside him?

 

[Infanteer]

Add me to the "Quit it with your angst and get your boots laced up" opinion....

 

[SemperFidelis]

The book about killing is called On Killing.   The book KevinB is refering to is about combat and it's stress and is called On Combat.   See below.
http://www.killology.com/on_combat.htm

Thanks AmmoTech...will def. check that out!!

 

[Lady From Hell]

Chimo, that is the difference between the CF and the US Army and the Marines. They don't have wet nurse nonsense protocols and assements to determine whether or not a soldier is ready to deploy. You sign up, you go. Thats our weakness, when I was in Cyprus 20 odd years ago, we had a number of guys sent back, "my wife left me" "my dog died" "I cant take painting rocks blue around the Ledra", whatever the excuse, some pandering new age padre or peckerhead 2LT was there to listen to the whine.

Hi; 

You Had Said >About your GRANPA Well u are right .
As I am A ( ANADIAN ARMY) vetean just as he was & the S--T we had to take is No way near todays Army .

I think Todays Army is Babied & Cuddeled to much A Lot of them Couldnt stand up to a Good Hand To Hand Battle Etc .

They Marry now & Then go to do battle So they WORRY more about there family then themselves to survive. etc .

More about my History & What i have seen & Experienced etc .If you would be interesteed.


                                    " LADY FROM HELL" 8)

My grandpa signed up in 1940,(artillery) was sent to England, and was there until almost 1946! Who in todays army would stand for that! Moral fibre is whats lacking.

 

[Bert]

There will always be those that falter before and during deployment.   Unless you can
provide objective statisitics, WW2 and deployments since then have encountered the
same thing.   Thoughts certainly goes through everybody's head, but those that
falter due to lack of drive and commitment are in the minority.   Lady from Heck/H*ll,
your comments seem subjective and exaggerated and I disagree with the "lack of
moral fibre" comment without more substanciation.  

However, I agree with the context.   Before joining and continuing a career in the
armed forces, it is by choice and commitment we serve operational needs including
deployments of varying duration.  

 

[Gunner98]

"I don't know how to really approach my buddy (it was his friend who tried this)."

Neither of them is any different than Sunday night, so you should not treat them differently.  Just be there for them, be prepared to listen and not second guess.

What a great bunch of supportive posters we have today.  If we tossed everyone out of the CF who had some mental health issues, the armouries and Bn lines would be a lot emptier. 

Contrary to what many of you are saying about, "the difference between the CF and the US Army and the Marines. They don't have wet nurse nonsense protocols and assessments to determine whether or not a soldier is ready to deploy."  The US has exactly the same pre-deployment screening process as we do. We borrowed the protocols from them, including the SF36 Screening Form.  Our Force Health Protection and Deployment Health Cell at CFHS are modelled after their's.  We, both, use a self-reporting pre- and post-deployment assessment.

I am reading a whole lot of opinions about a person you never met from people without MD or PhDs after your names.  A warning, judge not unless you are prepared to be judged by the same criteria in the future.

Terry Copp from WLU studied Battle Stress from WWII and determined that more than 60% of Cdn trench occupants were scared out of their wits and never fired a shot.  Not something any of them are proud of but sad nonetheless.

 

[KevinB]

Gunner98 - please.

Scared is one thing - I think a lot of us have been scared at times - but ACT.

If he has real problems - seek help, I made the call on the ATTENTION SEEKING based upon stats on male suicides - and the fact he was in the military. 

So basing it on a cry for attention - he has two options - dealing with the issue - hence my recomendation of 'On Combat'  or continuing to ignore it / shirk it.  Personally I dont buy the BS

The Army is a volunteer org - you take the Queen's Shilling (- in this case Congress's Dime) your bought and paid for.

 

[Gunner98]

KevinB - A little history lesson from the Juno Beach Centre.  http://www.junobeach.org/e/4/can-tac-med-exh-e.htm

Many exhaustion cases were ultimately labelled "chronic"; psychiatrists reported that such men, inherently unsuited for combat, should have been weeded out before going overseas. In Northwest Europe, senior officers took a harsher attitude to psychiatric casualties, perhaps influenced by a deepening reinforcements crisis that left many units understrength at one of the war's most critical stages. In the cases of 2nd Canadian Corps and 2nd Canadian Infantry Division, commanders refused to integrate psychiatric services into their medical organizations, instead emphasising stern disciplinary measures to deal with potential malingerers (Rawling, p. 199). Treatment of exhaustion cases was perhaps least satisfactory in the air force, where many aircrew suffering from battle-related traumatic stress were labelled as "Lacking in Moral Fibre", or LMF, and treated as disciplinary problems.

The typical symptoms of exhaustion are described by Terry Copp, who notes that 90% of diagnosed cases were among infantrymen, a statistic no doubt influenced by air force attitudes concerning the "moral fibre" of its personnel. Copp writes: "The large majority of individuals diagnosed as suffering from Battle Exhaustion exhibited what the psychiatrists described as acute fear reactions and acute and chronic anxiety manifested through uncontrollable tremors, a pronounced startle reaction to war-related sounds, and a profound loss of self-confidence. The second largest symptomatic category was depression with accompanying withdrawal" (J. Terry Copp, "Battle Exhaustion and the Canadian Soldier in Normandy", in Marc Milner, ed., Canadian Military History: Selected Readings, 1993, p. 240). The incidence of battle exhaustion casualties in First Canadian Army reached crisis levels during the battles south of Caen in July 1944. In an infantry division of about 18,000 men, only a much smaller proportion, approximately 4500, served as front-line infantry. It was these men who sustained the great majority of the 200,000 Allied casualties in the Battle of Normandy. Casualty replacement schemes had been based on statistics derived from the Italian campaign which proved inapplicable to the nature of the fighting in Normandy. The result in the summer of 1944 was that sufficient reinforcements to support the periods of "double-intense" combat then taking place were not available. A dwindling number of infantrymen thus had to bear the task of driving the Germans out of the occupied territories. Many inevitably snapped under the strain. The crisis was only alleviated with the German defeat in Normandy, and although exhaustion casualties continued to occur, they did not do so in the same overwhelming numbers that had been seen in the aftermath of the assault on Verrières Ridge, for example.