Posting Policy-Out of Canada (OUTCAN) [MERGED]

[Pusser]

In general, you're going to have to be married to accompany a service member on an OUTCAN posting, otherwise you run into all kinds of residency, healthcare, visa issues, etc. Plus, part of the OUTCAN screening is an interview where they talk about family situation -- if his paperwork says he has a child but no spouse then the first question is "what is your child care plan when you're in Europe?"

Culture varies widely -- living in the UK is very different from living in Romania. There are many posting locations, all with their own differences.

The government of Canada has a moving contract -- they book your movers and pay for them, you don't choose the company.

You don't necessarily need to be married to accompany your common-law spouse on an OUTCAN posting.  The CAF doesn't really care.  HOWEVER, the host country might.  If they don't recognize common-law relationships, then you could be denied any spousal benefits offered to visiting forces, INCLUDING any required visas (which could effectively kill your chances of joining him overseas.  Rather than trying to fight this, it would be a lot simpler for all concerned if you simply got married before the COS date.

 

[George Wallace]

In general, you're going to have to be married to accompany a service member on an OUTCAN posting, otherwise you run into all kinds of residency, healthcare, visa issues, etc. Plus, part of the OUTCAN screening is an interview where they talk about family situation -- if his paperwork says he has a child but no spouse then the first question is "what is your child care plan when you're in Europe?"

Culture varies widely -- living in the UK is very different from living in Romania. There are many posting locations, all with their own differences.

The government of Canada has a moving contract -- they book your movers and pay for them, you don't choose the company.

You don't necessarily need to be married to accompany your common-law spouse on an OUTCAN posting.  The CAF doesn't really care.  HOWEVER, the host country might.  If they don't recognize common-law relationships, then you could be denied any spousal benefits offered to visiting forces, INCLUDING any required visas (which could effectively kill your chances of joining him overseas.  Rather than trying to fight this, it would be a lot simpler for all concerned if you simply got married before the COS date.

The same thing repeated, but worded differently. 

 

[PMedMoe]

I'll offer something here, even though I'm 99.9% sure that tinar is just a spammer.  No, you cannot chose your moving company when the CF is footing the bill.

 

[tinar]

In general, you're going to have to be married to accompany a service member on an OUTCAN posting, otherwise you run into all kinds of residency, healthcare, visa issues, etc. Plus, part of the OUTCAN screening is an interview where they talk about family situation -- if his paperwork says he has a child but no spouse then the first question is "what is your child care plan when you're in Europe?"

Culture varies widely -- living in the UK is very different from living in Romania. There are many posting locations, all with their own differences.

The government of Canada has a moving contract -- they book your movers and pay for them, you don't choose the company.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Messerschmitt]

What are the remaining countries where someone could still get outcan? US NORAD and Germany? Anything else out there?

 

[dapaterson]

There are attaché positions in a variety of nations; exchange positions with some foreign militaries; MPs and clerks in a number of embassies...

 

[Messerschmitt]

There are attaché positions in a variety of nations; exchange positions with some foreign militaries; MPs and clerks in a number of embassies...

Any place to get a list?

 

[mariomike]

There are attaché positions in a variety of nations; exchange positions with some foreign militaries; MPs and clerks in a number of embassies...

This may be of interest...

Forces.ca
Reserve Force Foreign Service Arrangements (RFFSA)
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-support-services-for-members-reservists/foreign-service-agreements.page

Milnet.ca
Reserve Forces Foreign Service Arrangements ( RFFSA )
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/58217.0.html
4 pages.

Foreign Exchange programs?? 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/101486.25.html
2 pages.

Navy.ca
REGULUS program keeps sailors’ skills sharp
http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/news-operations/news-view.page?doc=regulus-program-keeps-sailors-skills-sharp/i3yaqqud

Embassy Question 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/57947.0

OJT at an embassy?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/79325.0

Working In an Embassey, and everything else!
http://army.ca/forums/threads/33093.0

Military Attaches 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/28202.0/nowap.html

Air Force Pilot Exchange 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/52181.0/nowap.html

Foreign Postings 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/71069.0

Officer exchange
http://army.ca/forums/threads/20557.0

Canadian / Australian Personnel Exchange Program?? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/28930.0

Deploying with other countries?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/23262.0

Canadian Exchange Officers Question 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/96122.0

China Exchange?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/17407.0

Naval Exchanges?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122454.0/nowap.html

etc...

 

[dimsum]

Any place to get a list?

Next time you're on EMAA, you can look up postings and see what's specific to your trade.

 

[Pusser]

Any place to get a list?

Your career manager will have the most up to date list as well as a forecast on when each position is expected to become available.  In the Log Branch, they send out a list to everyone every autumn for positions opening in the upcoming APS.

 

[CountDC]

Really? Never saw that list....probably because the Log Branch forgets that clerks are part of the branch until they want something from us.

Although it is technically true that you don't get to select your movers if you are nice to the staff in the move section and indicate a preference for company we have contracted they may be able to influence it some. Nothing major, just a matter of knowing when that company is due to come up in the selection and entering your move at the right time. Of course if no one else is moving at your location then you spin the wheel and hope for the best.

 

[AKa]

Really? Never saw that list....probably because the Log Branch forgets that clerks are part of the branch until they want something from us.

Advise the Logistics Branch Secretariat that you're not getting the emails.  The officer one came out last August so I would expect yours would be in approximately the same timeline.  I'm pretty sure there's a fair number of clerk positions internationally. There's a bunch in Washington alone.

Cheers,

AK

 

[high_octane]

Bump for the new screening season!

I've been OUTCAN before but every situation seems different and I learned a lot in this thread so I'll drop some hints below

Mortgage: contact your lender ASAP to find out your terms for pre-payment

Last time I had a military clause in my terms with MCAP that stated if I was posted OUTCAN I would only be charged max 3 months IRD, which used to be reimbursed by core (apparently that benefit is gone?)

Ideally you want one of the few lenders who have a full military clause to waive these pre-payment penalties when a military member is posted OUTCAN (currently TD and Scotia have the best terms as of 2017 according to my broker, seems to change every year and funny the "official bank of the Canadian Defence Community (CDC) BMO" is not one of them but they do have those nice glossy brochures with Canadian soldiers on the front..)

My term ends next summer but if I want to sell the house sooner I'd be hit with 3 months IRD penalty, so I'm accelerating mortgage payments now to reduce that potential fee. According to my broker they are one of the better lenders for porting within Canada because of how they blend rates and still allow the mortgage interest buydown, but I plan to warn them I won't be coming back or recommending them if they penalize OUTCAN postings..

Banking: Consider using online banks such as Tangerine, as they can do everything remotely rather than in a branch (and they're free..)

Last time I had both TD Select Service and Tangerine, and in my experience TD would often say "ok just come visit the branch" and constantly freeze my accounts because I was OUTCAN, whereas Tangerine was easier to deal with remotely. I read above that TD is great in the US as they can use your credit history from TD Canada, so I'm glad I kept an account open with them.

Last time I was able to transfer CAD from my Canadian banks to EUR in my Euro banks via both XE.com and Interactive Brokers FOREX sites. XE is very straightforward to use and has decent exchange rates depending on volume. Interactive Brokers was complicated to use and costs $10/month USD minimum but had rock bottom exchange rates.

This time I will try opening a US TD bank account and transfer between TD Canada and TD US and/or maybe open a US Paypal account

Credit Cards: Check your terms for foreign exchange fees and warranty benefits. Carry multiple cards as they will get locked randomly and some cards just won't work at random places

I often use both the Chase amazon and Marriott cards for buying things I would never need extended warranty or rental insurance for (think food/gas etc) This saves the 2.5% in exchange fees, as confirmed by the clerks who recently calculated this for my various USD claim expenses

I use my premium cards for major purchases as they have extended warranty benefits and the rewards/benefits can in theory negate the 2.5% fees (in reality the Chase cards are probably better other than the extended warranty I've never used) If anything it's good to have backup options.

Driver's Licence: Consider renewing for as long as possible before going to Europe

Last time I switched from Quebec to Ontario before leaving as this renews it and the Ontario licence was good for 4 years compared to Quebec which expires annually (and has an annual fee for insurance you won't need, charges extra for motorbike licence etc) If I remember correctly the Ontario one was cheaper for 4 years than Quebec was per year.

Not sure if this is worthwhile for the States or we have to get a State driver's licence anyways?

Vehicles: Consider selling instead of shipping overseas. If bringing a vehicle back, read all the policies and prepare to pay

Last time I sold my vehicles before leaving and received a taxed benefit for not shipping a vehicle.

In Europe licensing and plates was fairly easy as it was handled by CFSU(E). Coming back to Quebec was the hard part as it required a RIV inspection, a Quebec inspection and a dealer inspection (dealer was 250kms away and charged $500 for a quick look) There is no reimbursement to transport your vehicles to all these inspections, but you aren't allowed to drive them until the inspections are complete either. If the mover destroys your vehicle and you have to rent one because of that, you forfeit reimbursement of all said vehicle expenses. Joys

This time I might have issues with smog inspections in the States as my car is modified? Hopefully I can use Ontario plates and State insurance? I'd just sell it but it the resale is poor with $15k hail damage on the carfax

Income Taxes: Inform yourself of the various unique considerations for different provinces and situations

Last time I made sure to cut all financial ties from Quebec so I could file as a deemed resident. I sold my house and I did not use Long Term Storage. My Canadian branches were all based in Ontario and I even moved my driver's licence to Ontario. I called Revenue Quebec and informed them I had moved all said ties to Ontario.

Upon return to Quebec they threatened $100s/day penalties and garnished years worth of provincial income taxes, including tax on that severance payout and tax on operational deployment benefits. I have since got this all back but I do not wish this tax mess upon anybody. Something as simple as using LTS could cost you $$$ depending on your situation

CRA initially sent me a letter that I was now a non-resident. Both RQ and CRA told me many things that simply weren't true. Bottom line you basically have to read the policies yourself..

 

[Lumber]

My biggest take away from all this is:

1. OUTCAN postings are complicated. Read up; and
2. Living in Quebec means attaching a vice to your nuts.

 

[dimsum]

My biggest take away from all this is:

1. OUTCAN postings are complicated. Read up; and
2. Living in Quebec means attaching a vice to your nuts.

1 for sure.  My screening for OUTCAN was tougher than any of my deployment ones, and more so for families.  That being said, and maybe it was just the Brookfield rep I had, I had amazing support from Brookfield on my move there and back.

 

[Lkjhgfdsa]

I did all the paperwork in my local OR and had the money in hand before I left Canada.  Spent most of it before leaving Canada, yet still paying it off on return...

Interest free ?


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[Pusser]

Interest free ?


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No, not interest free, but ridiculously low - well below what you would get at a bank.

 

[Lkjhgfdsa]

No, not interest free, but ridiculously low - well below what you would get at a bank.

I heard there is no timeline to pay it back as long as your enrolled!


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[garb811]

No, there is a timeline...max is 48 months but you can opt for a shorter period.

 

[TQMS]

What are the remaining countries where someone could still get outcan? US NORAD and Germany? Anything else out there?

Almost anywhere with a NATO facility.
There are 5 pers in Stavanger, Norway at the JWC for example.
Positions in Romania, Italy, UK, Poland, Turkey, ect ect.

As well as other places like Australia.

Some positions are trade specific and some are not.

As well as the standard Embassy postings for clerks, MP's and Int.