Posting Policy-Out of Canada (OUTCAN) [MERGED]

[dimsum]

Why don't you buy one in Germany?  You get 1/2 of your annual salary as a posting loan with great interest rate, so use that to buy your car if necessary.

 

[Pusser]

Why don't you buy one in Germany?  You get 1/2 of your annual salary as a posting loan with great interest rate, so use that to buy your car if necessary.

 

That has pros and cons.  If you want to bring it home with you at the end of your tour, you have to ensure that it has been manufactured to Canadian standards.  Note that is manufactured to Canadian standards, NOT modified to Canadian standards.  Otherwise, you could end up with an expensive lawn ornament.  You can also import to Canada a used vehicle of a certain age (12 years I believe), but you may run into insurance issues back home.  Another option is to buy a car in Germany and then sell it before you leave.  However, there are local tax issues to be considered.  As a visiting forces person (under NATO Status of Force Agreement - SOFA), you are likely entitled to buy a car tax free.  No big issue on purchase, but if you sell it when you leave, you either have to sell it to another entitled person or you will have to collect and remit the tax.  Your best source of information on all of this is the Movements Section at CFSU(E) Geilenkirchen.

In both of my postings to the UK, I took my Canadian cars with me (CF pays to ship it), simply because I found this the easiest way to do it.  I had to register the cars in the UK, but because I'm on a SOFA, it's a "specialist" registration, so it wasn't too complicated.  I had to have some alterations made to the cars in order to pass the MOT (safety inspection) required for the registration.  This consisted of mounting "side indicators" (turn signals on the side - useful for roundabouts), a fog light on the rear and the placement of stickers on the headlights to prevent dazzling oncoming drivers (since I would be driving on the left hand side of the road).  In taking a Canadian car to Germany, I would guess that you would have to get the side indicators and fog light, as they seem to be pretty standard across Europe.  You headlights should be fine.  It's also worth noting that at least in the UK, if the car is less than four years old, no alterations are required (not sure why as the age has nothing to do with side indicators, fog lights or headlights aimed the other way - Canadian cars still don't have these things)

You can use your posting loan to buy a car in Canada or in Europe (your choice) and the interest rate is better than what you can get anywhere.  The alterations, if required, are claimable on your move.

 

[captloadie]

When I was posted to the Netherlands in 2009, we shipped opne vehicle, a Hyundai Sante Fe. We didn't need to make any adjustments or modifications to the vehicle to register. We then bought a grand caravan from the American base in Schinnen. At the time, the doallar was still nearly at par, so we saved around 10K on the purchase. Because the van was actually made in Windsor, we didn't have any issues when we imported back into Canada. We did have to pay taxes on the van, but I think it worked out to less than $1000. And I did use the posting loan, so it was paid off through my pay in three years.

 

[Cdnmoose]

Thanks for the input, wife and I are still on the fence!!  May have a look at a US Spec veh at one of the bases in Germany when we are there on our HHT

 

[kev994]

Has anyone taken a utility trailer with them to the USA? I've found all kinds of info on importing a vehicle, but nothin on trailers.

 

[SupersonicMax]

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/415/~/permanently-importing-a-trailer-into-the-u.s.

Make sure you import your vehicles as military personnel on orders.  You will save all customs duties and taxes (but you cannot sell your vehicles while in the USA).

 

[Scoobs]

I'm OUTCAN right now in the States.  Here's the deal with taxes:

1. If you are Deemed or Factual (see below for explanations), do NOT file electronically.  The tax returns for EVERYBODY (spouse and CF mbr, while OUTCAN) get MAILED to:

International and Ottawa Tax Services Office
Canada Revenue Agency
P.O. Box 9769
Station T
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
K1G 3Y4

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER (get the point?) mail the returns while OUTCAN to the general addresses.  If you do this, you will screw up your taxes.  NEVER do that!!!!!!

2. If you sold your home(s) in Canada, the CF member will be Deemed Resident.  The spouse (if not also a CF mbr) will be a "Factual Resident".  I've attached a document that is a CRA Information Sheet that explains all of this.  The important part for your spouse is the first box that has the title "Spouses that Intend to Return to Canada and expect to Maintain their Canadian Residency".  Read it.  Quote it in your cover letter (see para 4 below).  If you did not sell your house, then I THINK that both the spouse and CF mbr will file just as if they were still living in Canada in that particular province.  I highly recommend checking with the CRA International Tax Office on how to file if you kept your house(s) in Canada.

3. I literally just mailed my taxes in this past week.  I did my own taxes last year as well.  I used the electronic tax software, but make sure that you do the returns separately as the tax software gets all messed up if you put the CF mbr as a "Deemed Resident" and the spouse as a "Factual Resident".  Basically, it  won't work.

4. ALWAYS send the taxes back to the address above separately for each person filing.  ALWAYS include a cover letter explaining that you are a CF member and reference your spouses tax return.  For your spouses tax return, ALWAYS include a cover letter referencing the fact that they are a spouse of a CF member, etc.  I will uplink examples of my letters, names removed, for everyone's benefit.  FYI, when I did my taxes last year CRA assessed them exactly the way I did them, but I did do a lot of research.  As well for your spouse, include the CRA Information Sheet printed out, right after the cover letter.  You will be surprised that not all CRA International Tax Office employees are aware of the Info Sheet.  Put it this way, better safe than sorry.

5. If in doubt, give the International Tax Office a call.  They used to have their own direct line, but not anymore.  You must call the general info number and then immediately explain that you are a CF mbr posted outside of Canada and you wish to be transferred to the International Tax Office.  General info number is 1-800-959-8281.  To get an agent right away, press the "*" key after connecting.

6. The CF member, filing as a Deemed Resident, MUST use the correct tax package.  It is NOT the same as the one used for the spouse, which files as a Factual Resident.  The CF mbr, filing as a Deemed Resident, uses the "General Income Tax and Benefit Guide for Non-Residents and Deemed Residents of Canada".  The link on the CRA website is:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/formspubs/t1gnrl/nnrsdnts-eng.html

7. If the spouse is a Factual Resident, the spouse will use the tax package for Federal just like she/he was still living in Canada and will use Provincial for where they just moved from.  For example, if you got posted from somewhere in Ontario to the States, the spouse files as if she/he was still living in Ontario, whereas the CF member (as a Deemed Resident), uses the tax package in para 6 above.  ALL returns get mailed to the CRA International Tax Office above.

 

[Scoobs]

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/gvt_mpl-eng.html
There is a link halfway down to a form that asks cra to determine your residency status.

I was explicitly told by the CRA International Tax Office NOT to complete one of these.  Check out my big post in this thread for Deemed, Factual, etc. residency.

 

[Scoobs]

CF members and their families are considered Deemed Residents when posted OUTCAN - the relevant link is the same as the one posted by kev994. 

Also, not sure if it'd apply anywa, but you can't file taxes electronically as a Deemed Resident.

That is not entirely true, the part about spouses being "Deemed Residents".  See my large post in this thread.

 

[Scoobs]

Has anyone taken a utility trailer with them to the USA? I've found all kinds of info on importing a vehicle, but nothin on trailers.

Yes, I did, but I did not change the plate.  Also, I did not change the plate on my truck and car since I phoned the State Motor Vehicle Commission (some states have "Department of Motor Vehicles" vice a "Motor Vehicle Commission") HQ where I spoke to a guy who also happens to be a National Guardsman.  He told me that since I was a "temporary resident" that I did not need to change my plates.  However, this was only applicable to New Jersey and I caution you that this could lead to insurance issues, plus issues with the Province that you just came from.  When you cross into the States, you MUST stop at the US CBP post to get your "I-94" put into your green passport.  The CBP guy will do this.  It will be put beside your NATO 2 VISA.  As well, follow the instructions you got from DND or CDLS(W) or the OR in Colorado Springs (this depends where you are posted) on how to import a vehicle into the States.  The CBP guy will stamp all your paperwork.

Be careful.  You do not pay anything to the States for any of this.  The first CBP guy I dealt with wanted to charge me money like a "regular person" coming into the States.  I told him that under the NATO treaty (that the States is part of), military members on a NATO 2 visa are exempt from these charges.  He went and checked, but came back and said "yup, you're right".

A word of caution here as well, if you change your plates here in the States, often you will run into issues with cars that are still financed in Canada.  Trust me, I did.  Scotiabank outright refused to allow me to plate it in the States, whereas Ford Credit Canada had no issues.  As well, for warranty work you may need to get the US dealer to phone the manufacturer's number in Canada to first get approval for the warranty work.  It all depends on the manufacturer.  This was the case for my Kia, but not for my Ford (Ford doesn't care if it is a US or Cdn dealer, they are awesome about that).  As well, when you go to plate your car(s), you will have to create something called a "title".  It is NOT the same as a "registration".  This is fun, NOT!!!  Basically, most States will not register your car(s) if they don't have a title.  The local DMV or MVC may (key word, may) be able to help with this.  I highly suggest reading up at the applicable State's MVC or DMV website on how to do this and give them a call.  Trust me, the local New Jersey MVC was f'ing useless when I checked into possibly changing my plates.

You may need to get a Social Security Number to get the car(s) plated in the applicable State and to get a driver's license in the States.  It's not that hard for the CF mbr, but is more complicated for the spouse.

As well, when bringing the vehicles back into Canada, if you have changed the plates, you will need to go through the US AES only for self-propelled vehicles, i.e. not trailers.  Currently, IRP does NOT fund this.  CDLS(W) will fund one outright without the need for approval.  Anything beyond that requires approval from CDLS(W).

 

[Scoobs]

Thank you all for the insight...
I just got off the phone with the CRA (who were remarkably nice, patient and helpful) and it breaks down like this...
Because my wife worked for the CAF in 2015 she is a deemed resident for this tax year.
For 2016, she will become a factual resident (We don't have a residence in Canada).
Now to figure out taxes on the American side...

Unless your wife is working in the States (which I don't know how to do since mine did not work down here; I'm still here right now in the States), you do NOT file anything with the US taxman. Nothing.  Nada.

 

[Scoobs]

As per my post above, included in this post is a sample cover letter for the CF member to include with his/her tax return.  The one for the spouse will follow in a different post.

Replace all red font with your own font.  Remove the italics.

If you don't have a spouse, just remove any reference to a spouse.

Include a cover letter.  Just last week I was on the phone asking some questions to the CRA International Tax Office and the employee asked me if I was including a cover letter.  Therefore, they expect one.

For the "My Account" stuff, I highly recommend that you create one with CRA.  This will allow you to login online to check Notices of Assessment, if CRA received your tax return, etc.  Here's the link on getting an account:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/esrvc-srvce/tx/ndvdls/myccnt/menu-eng.html

 

[Scoobs]

As per my post above, here's a sample cover letter for your spouse should she/he be a "Factual Resident".  As per the CF member sample cover letter, remove all red font and italics and insert your spouse's info.

Hope this helps.  If you need more info, PM me, but be aware that I don't login to Army.ca everyday.

 

[Pusser]

If you did not sell your house, then I THINK that both the spouse and CF mbr will file just as if they were still living in Canada in that particular province. 

I kept my house in Canada and according to my accountant (who is paid to sort this kind of stuff out), my wife and I are both deemed residents as a result.

My taxes are a little more complicated as a result of being posted OUTCAN for the following reasons:

1) my wife and I still own our house in Canada and have rented it out (thereby generating income for both me and my wife);

2)  my son is still in Canada going to university (tax issues with respect to his tuition and expenses); and

3)  my wife is employed overseas (generating "world income").

For these reasons, I have engaged an accountant back in Ottawa (where my house is).  They make sure that all the stuff that needs to be done gets done (including drafting the letter to CRA declaring my house in Ottawa as my "principal residence" - meaning I won't have to pay tax on the capital gain when I sell it, even though it has been an "income property" at some point).  My wife's foreign income and my son's education expenses just make it even more complex.  Furthermore, because it's a "business expense" (because of the house), the accountant's fees are tax deductible.

On a side note, my wife has to pay taxes in our OUTCAN country AND declare here entire overseas income on here Canadian tax return.  However, any taxes she pays overseas is applied as a tax credit on her Canadian return, meaning she is NOT taxed twice.

 

[Scoobs]

I kept my house in Canada and according to my accountant (who is paid to sort this kind of stuff out), my wife and I are both deemed residents as a result.

My taxes are a little more complicated as a result of being posted OUTCAN for the following reasons:

1) my wife and I still own our house in Canada and have rented it out (thereby generating income for both me and my wife);

2)  my son is still in Canada going to university (tax issues with respect to his tuition and expenses); and

3)  my wife is employed overseas (generating "world income").

For these reasons, I have engaged an accountant back in Ottawa (where my house is).  They make sure that all the stuff that needs to be done gets done (including drafting the letter to CRA declaring my house in Ottawa as my "principal residence" - meaning I won't have to pay tax on the capital gain when I sell it, even though it has been an "income property" at some point).  My wife's foreign income and my son's education expenses just make it even more complex.  Furthermore, because it's a "business expense" (because of the house), the accountant's fees are tax deductible.

On a side note, my wife has to pay taxes in our OUTCAN country AND declare here entire overseas income on here Canadian tax return.  However, any taxes she pays overseas is applied as a tax credit on her Canadian return, meaning she is NOT taxed twice.

If you are going to quote me in order to nitpick, then I suggest you take the entire context: 

"If you did not sell your house, then I THINK that both the spouse and CF mbr will file just as if they were still living in Canada in that particular province.  I highly recommend checking with the CRA International Tax Office on how to file if you kept your house(s) in Canada."

Thus, the reason why I underlined and put "think" in capitals.  Thus, the reason why I suggested people to contact CRA themselves.  My posts are very clear that I am talking about the situation where a CF member no longer has a home in Canada and he has moved to the States with the wife not working.  Thus, in THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, the CF mbr is "Deemed" and the spouse is "Factual".  Speaking with other members posted down here, that is the most common scenario.  Your scenario is obviously different and I'm glad that you sorted it out, but there is no need to nitpick with sarcasm, "who is paid to sort this kind of stuff out".

 

[Pusser]

If you are going to quote me in order to nitpick, then I suggest you take the entire context: 

"If you did not sell your house, then I THINK that both the spouse and CF mbr will file just as if they were still living in Canada in that particular province.  I highly recommend checking with the CRA International Tax Office on how to file if you kept your house(s) in Canada."

Thus, the reason why I underlined and put "think" in capitals.  Thus, the reason why I suggested people to contact CRA themselves.  My posts are very clear that I am talking about the situation where a CF member no longer has a home in Canada and he has moved to the States with the wife not working.  Thus, in THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, the CF mbr is "Deemed" and the spouse is "Factual".  Speaking with other members posted down here, that is the most common scenario.  Your scenario is obviously different and I'm glad that you sorted it out, but there is no need to nitpick with sarcasm, "who is paid to sort this kind of stuff out".

Wow!  You read a whole lot more into my post than I wrote.  I was using my example (as you used yours) to show that your "thought" may not be correct (largely because my example is more relevant to the issue I was clarifying).  I'm glad you managed to sort your situation by contacting CRA directly.  I didn't have time for that (compounded by a five hour time difference), so I hired an accountant to do it for me.  Two approaches to solving the same problem.  Sorry if you think that was nitpicking.  It wasn't intended that way.

 

[Zoomie]

Sounds like a lot of work - I just filed both my wife and I as "deemed residents".  No cover letter, sent by mail together.  No issues at all from the International Tax bubbas in NS. 

It probably helped that my wife didn't work - so taxing $0.00 was a non-issue.  She still received CCTB and other child care benefits - which both Deemed and Factual residents get.

I found border crossing to the US to be a breeze, as was dealing with all forms of government.  Getting a title for each of my vehicles was a non-event, a lot easier than I could have imagined.  I could have sold them down there too - as the US import rules say "no" but individual state regulations trump Federal rules. 

 

[Scoobs]

Ditch,

I'm curious, which State were you posted to?  I know that the rules and regs vary wildly with each state.  Speaking with my US neighbors, they tell me that the Motor Vehicle Commission of New Jersey is notoriously rude.  I haven't met one person down here that had anything nice to say about them.  I personally think the New York City attitude abounds around here since I'm literally a 45 minute drive into the "City" as it is called here.

As for the taxes, I'm only stating what I've been consistently told by the CRA International Tax Office.  File them separately (which sucks due to the postal charges) and as Deemed for me, plus Factual for my wife.  My wife made so little money this past tax year due to EI for about 4 months of the start of the 2015 tax year that basically any tax she paid on it came back to her as a refund, plus I received a nice spousal amount on my return.  The awesome thing about filing as Deemed is that I pay Federal tax, plus a Federal surtax vice paying Ontario taxes, which are higher (greedy Ont Government).

Crossing the border was fine, with the minor exception of the CBP agent asking me to initially pay.  My wife and I regularly go back into Canada and we usually have zero issues coming into the States.  It's more with the Canadian side when they ask me "how long I plan on staying in Canada for".  I've been asked that about 90% of the time.  It's annoying and I always answer honestly as I don't want to get pulled over (win the war, not every battle type of mentality), but sometimes I want to say "as long as I please".  Oh well, my posting down here is almost done.

 

[RubberTree]

On a side note, my wife has to pay taxes in our OUTCAN country AND declare here entire overseas income on here Canadian tax return.  However, any taxes she pays overseas is applied as a tax credit on her Canadian return, meaning she is NOT taxed twice.

My wife is also employed here in the US and so has had to file a US tax return and pay US taxes. The taxes paid are minimal however...much less than in Canada. The tax credit she has on her Canadian return will not cover what the gov't wants from her...so she will have to pay them as well. In theory she won't be paying more than she would if she were still in Canada however.

 

[Zoomie]

I'm curious, which State were you posted to?

Oklahoma.  Basically the girl in the licensing office looked up a notice on Foreign Military licensing of vehicles - it said that a copy of my registration plus proof of residential status (Green passport with N2 VISA) = green title.