Photo of breastfeeding Guardswomen stirs debate

[ttlbmg]

For interest sake, I looked up a general overview of current breastfeeding laws within each of the US states. Firstly, there are not any states that PROHIBIT a mother from breastfeeding in public, a mother breastfeeding in public could, in theory, receive an indecent exposure ticket for said act, IF, it constituted an actual indecent exposure. (I guess this would be under the discretion of each police officer in each account) This being said, I would assume that in these states, business owners might have more clout in not allowing breastfeeding within their establishments in public. (again up to the discretion of the business owner) From what I have read, there are only two states currently on the books that do not have any "legal" protection for breastfeeding women. In other states, (only two or three) the current law is that a mother breastfeeding in public does not constitute an indecent exposure, so there would be no law that would prevent a woman from breastfeeding in public. In the other 40 states, there are currently laws that state that women are allowed or encouraged to breastfeed in public, and there are a range of other laws in regards to breastfeeding as well.

I don't know if the right word for the picture is to "politicize" breastfeeding. I honestly believe that the movement is more dedicated to breaking down the thought that a breastfeeding woman in public is "icky" or inappropriate. It is interesting to see that many people see no problem with looking at boobs on the internet, or seeing topless women walking around. (I think Ontario, being that there is a law that protects topless women) Yet, people see a woman's boob with a baby attached to it, and that becomes almost shamed in a way. Same boob, and the act it is performing in public has NO sexual connotation to it, and yet it is more perceived by some as more inappropriate. Again, I don't know if the picture is meant to politicize breastfeeding, or just bring attention to the fact that a woman breastfeeding in public is natural, and apart of a woman's everyday life, including her work.

 

[armyvern]

At this point, I'm not in uniform - I'm just an applicant. 

You might want to put away the big paintbrush.

You might start trying to see big pictures then --- it ain't about "you".

 

[armyvern]

Vern,  it becomes an issue if the state in question did not have any type of legislation allowing for a women to breastfeed in public, as some states do.  It would be inappropriate for a person in uniform to have their image used for a political reason, especially if it goes against a federal or state law. M2M promotes breast feeding and works to encourage all states to pass legislation allowing women to breast feed in public, which is why this photo has caused some controversy.  It can be taken as political in nature.

I am posting about "Canuks" (in uniform) finding this offensive when our own military proudly promotes, fundraises and photographs uniformed military members doing exactly that for months during the GCCWC.  That something that is intended to solicit monies, does solicit monies, uses uniformed troops to promote itself, who raise funds while uniformed etc and is certainly not shy about anyone knowing about it. They proudly write about and publish it all too. (Point of note: I also have no issues with the GCCWC).

If anyone has an issue with pers in uniform being photographed only to promote (not soliciting funding, not changing laws etc) and encourage women to breastfeed, I'd hope they'd next start a thread on why we go through GCCWC each and every fall ... and why it occurs in uniform. That's the double standard that I wrote to.

I don't give a shit what the states does; they are so far behind the times in realizing that women can do things it's amazing. We aren't there.  Thank goodness.

 

[armyvern]

For interest sake, I looked up a general overview of current breastfeeding laws within each of the US states. Firstly, there are not any states that PROHIBIT a mother from breastfeeding in public, a mother breastfeeding in public could, in theory, receive an indecent exposure ticket for said act, IF, it constituted an actual indecent exposure. (I guess this would be under the discretion of each police officer in each account) This being said, I would assume that in these states, business owners might have more clout in not allowing breastfeeding within their establishments in public. (again up to the discretion of the business owner) From what I have read, there are only two states currently on the books that do not have any "legal" protection for breastfeeding women. In other states, (only two or three) the current law is that a mother breastfeeding in public does not constitute an indecent exposure, so there would be no law that would prevent a woman from breastfeeding in public. In the other 40 states, there are currently laws that state that women are allowed or encouraged to breastfeed in public, and there are a range of other laws in regards to breastfeeding as well.

Then you get the drift of my post. The states are a myriad of public/vs private property. Private property is found throughout public places. As with here in Canada, but our laws seem to sort each other out, not be the opposite from 1 bench to another. Just read the crackbook site to find links to the news stories etc to women being ticketed, fined, going to court to fight it and losing. I'd call that "being considered illegal" by any other name --- if it weren't how would one be "gulity"? Parks, camping sites etc. This is exactly what the group advocates to change.

 

[ttlbmg]

Exactly Vern. That's where the grey are lies in the US though. It isn't considered ILLEGAL to breastfeed in public, the concept of indecent exposure is left to the discretion of the officer giving out the ticket. When you look at the picture in question, I don't think one could argue that there is an offence of "indecent exposure" committed. (espcially considering that one could see more breast exposed going onto a beach) Then the question becomes, who is politicizing the issue? Those taking the photo, or those viewing the photo? It is all about perception. If the women taking the photo are saying, yes, I support breastfeeding in public, is that political, being that there is now law against it? Or, are the public, looking at the photo, saying that breastfeeing shouldn't be allowed in public, being the "political" people in the group?

 

[dogger1936]

If you take the breasts and feeding babies out of the equation; all that's left is soldiers using their uniform to promote a cause. Were they approved by their CoC to do so? If not charge them.

 

[aesop081]

If you take the breasts and feeding babies out of the equation; all that's left is soldiers using their uniform to promote a cause. Were they approved by their CoC to do so? If not charge them.

DING DING DING

I'll take "dodger1936 is right" for $500, Alex.

 

[Maxadia]

Glad I'm not the only one.

It's not only about me Vern....it's about doing your job correctly, which means not using the uniform for personal agendas.  Now, if they had full permission, then it's a non-issue.  If they didn't....then big potential problems. 

Not being a member, I have no clue when it comes to CGWCC, but I can only assume it was authorized by the CoC as something the military fully supports.  Was this? And before, or after the shots?

 

[armyvern]

Thanks for the quote Aviator else I wouldn't have seen what Dogger had written.

It's all good; we have a consensus then ...

It's ALL political. We can say "X" is against the rules in uniform, but ignore the rule for the Political cause (the GCCWC) that promotes the solicitation of actual funds while in and from uniformed troops ... that confirms exactly my first post.

Nice double standard. It's akin to the double standard about boys can't wear earrings or have long hair in uniform because it's a "safety & hygiene issue", yet women in uniform can. BS at it's best. Let's be honest about it at least ... it's just because we want to maintain double standards.

We promote health and wellenss of our members and their families ALL the time, but when it comes to promoting newborn health it's a "personal cause"? Good one RDJP.  :

 

[aesop081]

Nice double standard.

The debate is wether breast feeding in uniform, in public, is professional behaviour. It has zip to do with fundraising for an approved cause.

 

[Maxadia]

Cool. I breastfed my kids. Should I have changed out of my uniform to feed them, then got back into it after feeding them? Let there be no doubt, breastfeeding of children occurs by working women every day of the year. It's normal and natural. The length of time of the maternity leave is irrelevant. I hope that no one is suggesting that a military female shouldn't be allowed to return to work (ie: working and wearing her uniform again) while still breastfeeding.

Maternity leave is for "up to" 1 year; many return to work earlier than that and while still breastfeeding. I have no issues with the pics either. A McDo's uniform, or a nurse's, or an executive suit is OK to be photographed breastfeeding in, but a military uniform is not? Hello Houston ... reality check --- it happens every day.

I think this whole schmoozle is silly over what amounts to be a fact of reality of life.

To answer your question from the first post, if your CoC doesn't authorize you to be in said photo when it is KNOWINGLY going to be used for some kind of agenda that appears to state that the military is taking a certain stance, then NO, it's not okay. 

What part of that is hard to understand?

Edited: Too much coffee this morning. lol

 

[armyvern]

The debate is wether breast feeding in uniform, in public, is professional behaviour. It has zip to do with fundraising for an approved cause.

Let's see, the US is not taking action because they've decided to use it as a learning experience in that it is quite natural and happens millions of times a day.

I guess I was unprofessional when I breastfed my kids during work breaks ... in uniform. Alrighty then.

 

[armyvern]

To answer your question from the first post, if your CoC doesn't authorize you to be in said photo when it is KNOWINGLY going to be used for some kind of agenda that appears to state that the military is taking a certain stance, then NO, it's not okay. 

What part of that is hard to understand?

Edited: Too much coffee this morning. lol

You do know where the photo was orginally published right? Or are you just spouting off that it was used to further a cause? I'm surprised that men were even reading it to see the pic, let alone non-breastfeeding women. No, someone rather took a pic and turned it into a political cause - perhaps it's their ass that should be held to account for actually using it to promote a politiucal cause.

 

[aesop081]

I guess I was unprofessional when I breastfed my kids during work breaks ... in uniform. Alrighty then.

Please quote the post where i stated this.

 

[armyvern]

Please quote the post where i stated this.

I did, and have pics of me, breastfeeding my kid, in uniform, at work. Did you not just state the following:

The debate is wether breast feeding in uniform, in public, is professional behaviour.

I was sitting on a bench in the field lines in Pet. I wasn't locked in some dark back room away from view while I did it. Was that unprofessional of me in your professional opinion?

 

[aesop081]

I did, and have pics of me, breastfeeding my kid, in uniform, at work. Did you not just state the following:

I was sitting on a bench in the field lines in Pet. I wasn't locked in some dark back room away from view while I did it.

Ok, i will further clarify. This is a debate in the United States.

Has the square root of a pickle jar to do with us.

Please quote the post where i state that i find you to have been unprofessional for breastfeeding in uniform.

Was that unprofessional of me in your professional opinion?

No.

 

[PMedMoe]

As for the whole breastfeeding in public issue: I agree that it is a natural act and is required and that there isn't always a place to be able to have privacy.  But I still think that it isn't a show for everyone to see.  Easy enough to drape a blanket and be discreet.  There doesn't need to be skin and a latched child shown to prove a point about rights.

I agree.  Sex is a natural act, but you don't see it done in public (unless you happen to be on the subway in TO.....  )

If you take the breasts and feeding babies out of the equation; all that's left is soldiers using their uniform to promote a cause. Were they approved by their CoC to do so? If not charge them.

:goodpost:

I guess as long as their boots are bloused it's alright.

Okay, I'm curious.  How do you blouse boots?  ???  It's the pants that are bloused.

 

[Maxadia]

You do know where the photo was orginally published right? Or are you just spouting off that it was used to further a cause? I'm surprised that men were even reading it to see the pic, let alone non-breastfeeding women. No, someone rather took a pic and turned it into a political cause - perhaps it's their *** that should be held to account for actually using it to promote a politiucal cause.

As I stated previously, if the photo was taken with their KNOWLEDGE that it was going to be used to further an agenda, and IF their CoC did NOT authorize it, then yes it is improper.  Nothing to do with he act, and all to do with disrespect to the CoC. 

National Guardswomen Terran Echegoyen-McCabe and Christina Luna were photographed breastfeeding their babies at Fairchild Air Force in Washington State, by Mom2Mom, a breastfeeding support group.  The images, which show the women in camouflage uniforms, were intended to promote August’s World Breastfeeding Week.

Looks like that from the article, but kind of unambiguous, so that's why I said if.

As for your comment that you were surprised that "men" were actually reading the article instead of just staring at the breasts in the photo, I think that is the most pig-headed thing I have seen on these forums ever.  And by pig-headed I do mean "female chauvinistic pig".  Nice to see the tables turn, for you, I guess.

You have no clue how many men on this forum support the act of breastfeeding.  We're talking about doing your job correctly while in uniform, not using it to make a statement that may not be authorized by the CoC.  You seem to be so hell bent on your mythical mistreatment by the male members of the forum that you're having issues seeing that. 

Perhaps you can tell me how different it would be if you went for a photo op at an abortion protest (pro or con) in uniform. Oh wait....that's not the same, is it?

For once, I'm considering using the ignore function for a few days until you calm down.

 

[armyvern]

As I stated previously, if the photo was taken with their KNOWLEDGE that it was going to be used to further an agenda, and IF their CoC did NOT authorize it, then yes it is improper.  Nothing to do with he act, and all to do with disrespect to the CoC. 

Looks like that from the article, but kind of unambiguous, so that's why I said if.

As for your comment that you were surprised that "men" were actually reading the article instead of just staring at the breasts in the photo, I think that is the most pig-headed thing I have seen on these forums ever.  And by pig-headed I do mean "female chauvinistic pig".  Nice to see the tables turn, for you, I guess.

You have no clue how many men on this forum support the act of breastfeeding.  We're talking about doing your job correctly while in uniform, not using it to make a statement that may not be authorized by the CoC.  You seem to be so hell bent on your mythical mistreatment by the male members of the forum that you're having issues seeing that. 

Perhaps you can tell me how different it would be if you went for a photo op at an abortion protest (pro or con) in uniform. Oh wait....that's not the same, is it?

For once, I'm considering using the ignore function for a few days until you calm down.

It was published in a women's breastfeeding site "Mom2Mom".

Chauvinistic? Ri-ight. As I stated, I'm surprised that men frequent it. That's not chauvinistic, that's surprised.

The rest of your post is simply a personal attack that is based upon no actual occurence on this site; it is just you ranting. My mistreatment by male members of the site? When and where have they done that? You say it's happening ... you'd better send a link because I missed it.  :

Abortion issues etc? Just wow. Keep ranting on.

 

[Maxadia]

It was published in a women's breastfeeding site "Mom2Mom".

Oh, my mistake.  It was a women's magazine.

That makes it all okay. 

Ri-ight.