Perun: Defence Strategy for Small Nations
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Just about to dive into that!
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Kiwiland and Emutopia
GR66
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Well at least we can stop arguing about how our Army Brigade Groups are organized and just start focusing on pumping more money and personnel into the RCN, RCAF and RCA!
GR66
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Noticed that I got a "Humourous" response...who says I was joking?
Edited to add:
In all seriousness, if we're really serious about defending Canada we should double or triple the size of the RCAF, double the size of the RCN and cut the Army in half. Realistically the Army is primarily a political tool to show support to our European NATO allies and provide support for our UN positions. Europe has the population and money to be able to defend themselves if they choose to make the effort and frankly don't give a single thought about the defence of Canada.
An expanded RCAF and RCN however would however increase the security of Canada in a very meaningful military way and by extension increase the security of the US which is really the ally we should be focused on as they DO care about the defence of North America (and by extension Canada).
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FJAG
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It's kind of interesting when you play with the Army PYs and ARes positions you can create more brigades than you have equipment for.
In short, using existing personnel numbers you can create one 100/0 manoeuvre brigade, two 70/30 manoeuvre brigades, two 30/70 manoeuvre brigades, two 30/70 arty brigades, a 30/70 sustainment brigade and a 50/50 protection brigade - 9 in all. Equipment, on the other hand is roughly sufficient for three manoeuvre, one arty brigade (mixed 155/105) and one combat support (aka protection) brigade
Personally, I think that the RCN, RCAF and CANSOF are good with the numbers they have. Let them maximize the usefulness of their reserves first before before handing them more PYs to put into cubicles.
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I would want 2 Ro/Ro ships, and a Amphib/Hellicarrier for the RCN, and a lot more Vertical Lift and Transport AC for the RCAF.It's kind of interesting when you play with the Army PYs and ARes positions you can create more brigades than you have equipment for.
In short, using existing personnel numbers you can create one 100/0 manoeuvre brigade, two 70/30 manoeuvre brigades, two 30/70 manoeuvre brigades, two 30/70 arty brigades, a 30/70 sustainment brigade and a 50/50 protection brigade - 9 in all. Equipment, on the other hand is roughly sufficient for three manoeuvre, one arty brigade (mixed 155/105) and one combat support (aka protection) brigade
Personally, I think that the RCN, RCAF and CANSOF are good with the numbers they have. Let them maximize the usefulness of their reserves first before before handing them more PYs to put into cubicles.
Given the CA doesn’t do much beyond Btl Grp these days, 3 Bde gives a lot of room for that.
If Canada was pumping out Bde deployments routinely, then I would consider a 2 Div or larger Army.
Halifax Tar
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Would love the Ro/Ros and Amphibs. How would your make up of DDH/FFHs and AORs look ?
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Honestly I’m not competent enough in Naval stuff to know.
I just looked at what a Bde+ would need to PAC pivot for movement - the combat system side belongs to folks knowledgeable there.
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I sense a drift towards commonality - Kevin/Mark/GR66/FJAG. FWIW me as well. We're now starting to finesse details.
Two capabilities that have not been addressed with that schema is Long Range Fires (and how long is long?) and GBAD (and again, how long is long range?)
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To me, Long simply depends on theatre - and what one expects to be able to accomplish.
Long Range Fires -- PrSM at 500+km would be Long
. conveniently able to be fired from a HIMARS/MLRS pod.GBAD: Range for that to me depends on if you are considering BMB in that.
Short/Point Defense: are MANPADS/Mounted Stinger and things like the 35mm cannon (vehicle or static), EW and DE systems.
Medium and Long: I'm not nearly as versed in those aspects.
FJAG
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I seem to be the only one advocating for more deployable headquarters (both bde and Bn) by scrapping the 10 CBGs and the CCSB and turning them into fewer but more useful entities that will ease the rotation burn out that's always waiting just around the corner. 30/70 // 70/30 entities do that.
For long range fires I think we're basically stuck with adopting the possible. Currently that's guns and ammo based on the 155mm L52 barrel and perhaps in the near future the M1299's 155mm L58 barrel. I think we're starting to see the practical limits on those tubes but might gain some more range with ramjets at some point. Longer than that needs missiles and again I turn to the practical/available which has me on the HIMARS side.
GBAD I tend not to think too much about not being a bird gunner. AD works in envelopes and in order to determine what you want you have to know where you fit in. With a battlegroup in Latvia we're both a low level user but without top cover. Manpads are sufficient but I really think we need something M-SHORADish because we should never count out needing to deploy a brigade at some time. Definitely a gun/missile/DE mix to cover everything form tiny drones up. Personally I'd want to be really good on CUAV because everyone and his cousin is taking lessons on how to weaponize cheap drones and we'll be encountering them on those highly desirable peacekeeping missions we're always looking for as a country. They're going to be the new IED for the penny wise insurgents. We also need to keep an eye on better anti-ATGM technology. It may not be AD in the strictest sense but we need to think seriously of active protection systems.
FJAG
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RoRos and an amphibious ship aren't really for the Navy. They're really for the Army and the Navy really wants nothing to do with them.
Again, not really for the RCAF but for the Army mainly.
In the 90s bde level training had almost ceased to exist because of funding and deployments. The whole MRS system was designed to reinvigorate bde level trg and to set the conditions for sustainable battle group deployments. In the process we lost key capabilities needed for proper bde level deployments which is not quite the same as saying we couldn't do a bde level deployment in a pinch. Otherwise why keep 40,000 soldiers hanging around.
I personally think that our biggest problem isn't that we can't do bde level deployments, because I think we can, but that our allies consider us unable to do so and generally count us out. This is one of the main reasons why I think we should have a prepositioned brigade in Europe and run our people through training there rather than out in the weeds in Wainwright or Suffield. We need to be out there being seen to do big things even if the training is less comprehensive than in Wainwright
We already have the numbers to be a two division army. Instead we're a 5 division army.
It would be hard to maintain a full brigade by rotos for an army our size. It would need to be a posting situation like 4 CMBG was and I'm not even sure we could maintain that. When we had 4 CMBG, we had 3 Bdes in Canada to sustain that. We really would have only two now. OTOH a prepositioned bde that the 3 (or more) bde's in Canada could rotate through for exercises would do nicely.
If we ever did that's I'd back getting more RCAF transports (or even better, a Civil Reserve Air Fleet)
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Just like the USN and the USMC doing an end run around them with the Military Sea Lift Command
Some of that could be manaaged by a CRAF relationship with Canadian air companies.
For that matter the ROROs could also be managed with Fed Nav type Civil Reserve fleet arrangements.
And a Naval Reserve deployed in Sea Cans.
In the 90s bde level training had almost ceased to exist because of funding and deployments. The whole MRS system was designed to reinvigorate bde level trg and to set the conditions for sustainable battle group deployments. In the process we lost key capabilities needed for proper bde level deployments which is not quite the same as saying we couldn't do a bde level deployment in a pinch. Otherwise why keep 40,000 soldiers hanging around.
I personally think that our biggest problem isn't that we can't do bde level deployments, because I think we can, but that our allies consider us unable to do so and generally count us out. This is one of the main reasons why I think we should have a prepositioned brigade in Europe and run our people through training there rather than out in the weeds in Wainwright or Suffield. We need to be out there being seen to do big things even if the training is less comprehensive than in Wainwright
We already have the numbers to be a two division army. Instead we're a 5 division army.
It would be hard to maintain a full brigade by rotos for an army our size. It would need to be a posting situation like 4 CMBG was and I'm not even sure we could maintain that. When we had 4 CMBG, we had 3 Bdes in Canada to sustain that. We really would have only two now. OTOH a prepositioned bde that the 3 (or more) bde's in Canada could rotate through for exercises would do nicely.
I'm exhausted running around that mulberry bush.
If we ever did that's I'd back getting more RCAF transports (or even better, a Civil Reserve Air Fleet)
Good to finish on a point of agreement.
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True but the Navy needs them to be an actual useful Navy for Canada.
Same argument as the Navy
Which is why I see a need for Regular Army PY’s to be given up to them.
Honestly Canada should have given a lot more thought to what it was requiring from the Army at that point and tossed numbers to grow (so the constant stripping of units to fill others wasn’t required).
Right now a Btl Grp deploying Army doesn’t need the bodies it has.
Lol.We already have the numbers to be a two division army. Instead we're a 5 division army.
Honestly Roto’s should have been lengthened a long time ago. 9-12 months would have decreased the need to keep raping other units.
If we ever did that's I'd back getting more RCAF transports (or even better, a Civil Reserve Air Fleet)
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RoRos are cargo carriers - merchant marine.
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So civil reserve. STUFT backed up by naval reserve.
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The system works against small boats as well and could be a cost-effective point air defense system on land, too.
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Bolt on solutions. Or even just lock down solutions.
Could we build a Sea Can deployable Helicopter Maintenance Facility, with a temporary shelter, for deployment on STUFT RoRos?
Converting the Bay-class auxiliaries into littoral strike ships | Navy Lookout
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