Pay Incentive Credit For previous service

[421 EME]

OK here's the story. In the reservists from 1990 to 1994 with 1 tour. It adds up to 1 year, 222 days full time service. I get out. In 2002 I get back in and go Reg Force and I give to recruiting centre all my previous service doc's. They tell me no credit for past service, I say OK (not knowing any better). A year later I get a message for my OR saying that I am be credited 6 months pay incentive for cadet service ( I never gave them any doc's about cadet service). Can someone please explain to me why they credited me for cadet service and not my reserves service? I have my Coy clerk looking into this, but she is as puzzled as I am.

Any feed back would be helpful.

421 eme

 

[dapaterson]

My understanding:  No statute of limitations on credit for Cadet service, but usually a 5 year limit for former Res or Reg service.

 

[PMedMoe]

My understanding:  No statute of limitations on credit for Cadet service, but usually a 5 year limit for former Res or Reg service.

Which, IMHO, is unfair. 

 

[George Wallace]

Which, IMHO, is unfair. 

How?

Isn't five years enough time to make up your mind whether or not your are going to claim your previous service?

 

[Sub_Guy]

Considering he didn't submit any docs claiming his cadet service, why couldn't they automatically credit him with his Reserve time?

 

[421 EME]

Let me put it to you this way.

1985 to 1990 Cadet service = 6 months pay incentive.

1990 to 1994 Res service ( 1 Tour on class C ) = nothing.

 

[George Wallace]

Let me put it this way:

If you want to have your previous service credited, you will have to claim it.  Go to your OR and do so.

If you don't then nothing gets done. No one will take the initiative to research your previous service unless you do. 

What more do you want to hear?

 

[421 EME]

I have started the steps to claim it. And my OR supports my claim and has all the Doc's on file, but they are at a loss as is to why former Cadet service gets credit and former Res service does not.

 

[mhawk]

I have a similar experience except, I had transferred immediately from reserves to regs, but had issues with recruiting.  They seem to regard anyone that wasn't a cpl or above as not Prior Service.  Although I have had my pay corrected, 2 years later, though I am not sure about the service time being credited. 
My question is, are there others with similar situations, and how did they go about correcting the mistakes and blunders in their files.

 

[PMedMoe]

How?
Isn't five years enough time to make up your mind whether or not your are going to claim your previous service?

I didn't have to "make up my mind" to claim former service.  I claimed it.  All the paperwork was there when I got back in the RegF in 1995.  They did not credit any of my reserve time (except the 1 year Class C) for my pay incentive and it's possible that they did not calculate it properly for my PFTPS (which I am getting checked).  Later (not sure of the date) they began calculating ResF time for your pay incentives but it was only retroactive to a certain date and too late for some of us.

 

[dapaterson]

I have a similar experience except, I had transferred immediately from reserves to regs, but had issues with recruiting.  They seem to regard anyone that wasn't a cpl or above as not Prior Service.  Although I have had my pay corrected, 2 years later, though I am not sure about the service time being credited. 
My question is, are there others with similar situations, and how did they go about correcting the mistakes and blunders in their files.

Were you CTing, or CTing and OTing at the same time?  Huge difference.

 

[mhawk]

I'm not sure what Oting is, but I went from Pte to OCdt into the ROTP program.  Most that I talked to on ROTP that had no problems were Cpls and above, where as those who were Pte's who had BMQ course as a minimum, had difficulties, unless they went to RMC where it was magically fixed, w/o them having to fight for it.  As well I know of the "pte" had gone through the same procedure and transfer as I had did.

 

[exgunnertdo]

I CT'd directly from PRes to RegF in 2005 (with an OT).  There were many different calculations made:

Previous Full-time Paid Svc - 1 for 1 Cl B/C time, 25% of remainder - almost 6 yrs.
Time credit for promotion - can't remember how they calculated that, but I EPZ eff the date of the CT (for time in only, still needed quals)
Seniority date in rank was my CT date
IPC - I think they did 1 for 1 Cl B/C, 25% of remainder from the date I was promoted to my current rank in the PRes

And finally - I opted to buy back my pensionable time - almost 5 years.  This one is 1 for 1 Cl B/C over 90 days, and 25% of remainder.

The last was the only one I had to "choose" - the others were all done by CFRG based on my Res file.  Five different calculations, based on the exact same data.  So you can imagine how there is now easy answer to any one question.

I have no information on a "statute of limitations," however - I know qualifications may not be reinstated after a period of time (usually about 5 years) but that is looked at on a case by case basis.  

To fix stuff in your file - I've found no easy way.  Document what you think should have happened, research the regulations (there's a CMP instruction on CTs, don't know the number right now, lots of info in there), know your own situation and find a clerk that can/will help you.

 

[dapaterson]

I'm not sure what Oting is, but I went from Pte to OCdt into the ROTP program.  Most that I talked to on ROTP that had no problems were Cpls and above, where as those who were Pte's who had BMQ course as a minimum, had difficulties, unless they went to RMC where it was magically fixed, w/o them having to fight for it.  As well I know of the "pte" had gone through the same procedure and transfer as I had did.

CT = Component Transfer.  Going From Reg to Res or Res to Reg, staying in trade.  OT = Occupational transfer.  Going from one trade to another.

In your case, you did both, which contributes to the complexity of the case and the credit that may or may not be received for time served.

Other parts to the puzzle include what qualifications you held on transfer, foreign military skills, etc, etc, etc... no two cases are identical, and no case is "easy".


As to my earlier "statute of limitations" comment - it was a bit tongue in cheek.  The CFAO awarding time credit for cadet service, to my knowledge, has no sunset clause, whereas recognition for other qualifications generally lapses after 5 years.

 

[421 EME]

OK this is what on my EMAA: PFTPS= 1year, 222 days.
                                            All 5 of my reserve courses.
                                            credited time towards CD.
                                            My tour in 1993.

I have been buying back my pension now for the last 4 years.

I don't care about getting credited time towards rank ( I am a Cpl right now and only PER's and a PLQ will get me my MCpls ). Time towards pay incentive would be nice, but again my question is my is former Cadet service get you something and former Res service get you nothing towards pay incentive?

 

[421 EME]

Someone quote me a CFAO, DOAD or a QR&O or something that sets the limits for crediting previous service.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Time towards pay incentive would be nice, but again my question is my is former Cadet service get you something and former Res service get you nothing towards pay incentive?

Maybe someone made an error, or maybe not? Realise you are questioning via the internet to individuals who only have the information you have provided to assert an opnion. Only those with full access to your documentation can come to appropriate determinations and have corrections completed if required. In short, your OR and CoC, as there are far too many variables to properly account for them through this medium.

Also, every CF member is expected to be able to research publications on their own and as a courtesy am providing you with these references (note there are likely more available) so that you can research your issue.
A-PM-245 Chap 11 Para's 1128 - 1130 http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/DHRIM/mhrrp/Ch11/engraph/ch11_e.asp

1128. An applicant who has served as a cadet may, on the authority of the CFRC CO, be granted 180 days of IC towards the Pte IPC 2, provided that the applicant meets both of the following criteria:
a. has completed at least three years of cadet service terminating within five years of the date of application for enrl in the CF; and
b. has successfully completed a six-week occupation or specialty course.

CBI 204.015 Pay Increments - http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/pdf/CBI_204_Sec_1.pdf
A-PM-245 Chap 5 Annex A- Previous Qualifying Service - http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/dhrim/mhrrp/ch05/engraph/ch05a_e.asp#4

 

[PMedMoe]

PO2FinClk,  thanks for those links.  I found all those this morning.  Believe me, I can research with the best of them, the problem is so many documents that are not what you are looking for.
I was specifically looking for the one that says how they calculate previous service.  If I'm not mistaken, isn't it one for one for Reg, Class B and C and 1/4 time for Class A?

 

[dapaterson]

PMed:  It depends opn the purpose of the calculation.

Under the CFSA (old rules) you would get 1:1 for all Class B and C service of 90 days or more, and 1:4 for all other periods in the Primary Reserve, less ED&T and NES.  That applies only to pensionable service - not to Time Credit for Promotion or time towards Entering the Promotion Zone.

Time Credit for Promotion applies to NCMs; see CFAO 49-4.  If you were a PRes NCM who CT'd and OT'd to the Reg F it wouldn't apply.  If you're a Res officer joining the Regs as an officer your EPZ may be impacted by prior full-time service (CFAO 11-6 applies).

Not having your pers file in front of me, and not having all the related policy directives in force when you joined, means no one online can give you "the answer".

 

[PMedMoe]

Well, then that's why I didn't get it, I enrolled in a trade other than what I was trained in, that's what they offered me.  I guess I should feel grateful that they gave me Pte, IPC level 3.
Thanks for the info!!