On asking questions & hostile dog-pile replies.

[Michael OLeary]

That may work if we presume that every "new member" is a recruit applicant looking to learn what their options are to join the CF.  It will be accepted somewhat less enthusiastically by a MCpl, WO, Capt, or LCol (et al) wanting to join on the spur of the moment in order to respond to some specific and timely technical or doctrinal debate.

The problem is that there are no simple solutions.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

The problem is that there are no simple solutions.

Very true, unfortunately... if it was simple we'd already be doing it. In lieu of an easy solution, we're working hard to strike a balance, and I think for the most part, we have it. Always room for improvement*, but we're roughly on course.

* The recent suggestion to promote the Guidelines is a good example. A small, simple change but one that may have a tangible effect.

 

[Greymatters]

Instead of a link to the guidelines, what if the guidelines popped up for every new member, requiring a check box or other form of acknowledgement before allowing the user to continue on to the forum?

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

That's exactly what it does, when a new member registers.

 

[Journeyman]

Maybe as an additional reward for having MilPoints deducted, the member's next 5 posts cause a Guideline window to pop-up, which must be acknowledged to continue.


As a variation, a series of pop-ups ---

"Are you sure this says what you mean?" Clicking 'Yes' leads to,

"Did you spell check?" Clicking 'Yes' leads to,

"Is this likely to get you flamed in response?" Clicking 'Yes' leads to,

"So you're sure you don't mind if people think you're a dumbass?" Clicking 'Yes' leads to,

"OK, I tried to help you.....  :brickwall: "  and then the message posts  ;D

 

[matt101pwn]

I had posted thanks to someone's post who gave me insite on what I needed to learn, and literally 1 hour later I was told by multiple people "To shut my mouth and be on recieve the next 5 years" just my experience, thought i'd share.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I had posted thanks to someone's post who gave me insite on what I needed to learn, and literally 1 hour later I was told by multiple people "To shut my mouth and be on recieve the next 5 years" just my experience, thought i'd share.

Show me the thread where you were told "To shut my mouth and be on recieve the next 5 years"

 

[the 48th regulator]

Show me the thread where you were told "To shut my mouth and be on recieve the next 5 years"

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13652/post-894062#msg894062

All he told you Matt was unless you understand what was stated, don't post.  Until you have a good five years, and with that experience, you can form an opinion that would be useful to post.

You are enthusiastic, however, you got to understand that posting everywhere does not help out much of the discussions..


dileas

tess

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Matt, I just read the post you quoted and, if you had made ANY kind of effort at all to check what you are posting before you hit the "send" button, you would have found that the post in question  makes just about every grammatical error known to mankind.....................as a collective you will find the military is very big on such things and, when you won't make the slightest effort yourself, but wish to ask others already here to give the effort of answering your questions,.......well sometimes folks get a little off.

......and more so when you have already been "talked" too about it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm the first to admit that I take advantage of, for lack of better wording, the military SMEs on army.ca.

Between working 8 to 4, working out twice a day, taking care of two dogs a wild 4 year old a 1 and a half month old, martial arts 2-3 nights a week, chasing down a landlord that's months behind in repairs, PMC of a mess, admin for my section on my own time (as well as planning outside of work activities) I don't always have time to sift through 18 pages of threads to find an answer to a question. Sometimes it's nic to hop on, ask a question and get an answer and then get back to my retarded schedule.

What really burns me is when a smartass has the time to reply "Use the search tool, NOOB" but thats it. What a waste of time.  If someone feels the need to chime in  (obviously having time on their hands) to tell someone to use the search tool at least give the person a bone and post a few links to searches or something. (I find many members already do this, which is great)

I mean yes if someone just joins the site and 14 out of 18 threads started by them are all asking questions which can be found in searches, sure. Give em a running dog pile. They need to be sorted out. Sometimes it's nice to ask a question and get an answer though.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

It's always nice to just ask a question and get an answer. What's not as nice is to always have to answer the same question.

While I'm sure the specifics are different for everyone, I imagine the majority of us here have schedules much like yours. Popping in to post a quick 'please use the search' is just as nice for those folks as popping in to ask the question is for you.

If others have the time to do the legwork for you great; and I know we have some very helpful folks out there who can and will do that from time to time. If 'throwing a bone' by doing a quick search for someone is just as easy as posting a rebuke, then it's probably just as easy as posting the original question.

By the same logic, if you have time to frame up the question properly, wouldn't you have time to search?

All playing devil's advocate, as I know where you're coming from, and have been guilty of it myself from time to time. As you pointed out, there are SMEs here who wouldn't have to search at all... the answer is on the tip of their tongues. Still, this approach requires that these SMEs are generous enough with their time to post an accurate and complete answer to your question, which may take more time than a search in the end.

Each time they do this, they 'burn out' just a little bit more, until they realize that what they get from Army.ca is far less than what they're giving. At that point, we tend to lose them so I hate to lean too heavily on them like this. A better use of their time would be generating FAQs, editing wiki pages, etc. Then the response to many questions can simply be a link to a well documented response. Or even better, this approach may head off some questions completely.

That's why we've made the wiki editable by any registered user, and that's why many of the FAQs are started or maintained by regular users. (The Staff are here to police and organize, but are not here to be the SMEs on all things military.)

It all goes back to the same thing I've been saying: involvement

Without involvement by our membership, we quickly wither and die. I've seen a few new members use the site to work their way through the system and come back much later to 'repay their dues' by helping out. That's the perfect system in my mind.

 

[George Wallace]

...........  If someone feels the need to chime in  (obviously having time on their hands) to tell someone to use the search tool at least give the person a bone and post a few links to searches or something. (I find many members already do this, which is great)

On that point, what do you have to say to a reply like this "thankful newbie"? (This is a rather tame example, as opposed to some of the more rude ones that have been posted.)

Thanks  ____________ but those treats are really old and almost 100% of the link on there had been removed from Force.gc.ca

most of  the information are sooooo 2005.... I don't think I made any mistake asking my question here because it is related to the topic...

Anyway thank you very much for your attempt to help.

I know we have to keep the forum organized but there is no reason to be paranoiac about it. There is a fine line between straightforward  and rudeness


Cheers

Even when some people are give direction to a topic that covers their questions in detail, they get snotty because their question wasn't answered.  Look at this example of a guy who had to start a whole new topic on something that is covered in the topic directly below the one he started:

Army.ca Forums » The Recruiting Office » Recruiting


    Another education question.                      3 Replies                      Today at 07:06:31
Started by CBAtt                                            83 Views                        by FDO   

_____________________________________________________________________
    Education And Joining The CAF                  193 Replies                  Yesterday at 09:06:10
Started by SteelMag « 1 2 3 ... 13 »                16031 Views                by Bruce Monkhouse 


That is what this is all about..........lazy people who want to be spoonfed eventually grating on the nerves of other site members.  This site is a good source of info, and even if that info may be dated, it is often still relevant.  I am sure at some time when this site was first created someone made a statement that the sky is blue.  Now that statement is over ten years old, but it still holds true.  Why must someone discard info here that wasn't created in the last 24 hours?  How often have we seen this?  Why must we put up with it?  We have seen people ask questions and then we have also seen people "with attitude" ask questions.  I would say that in the majority of cases the membership has been quite obliging to new members, until such time that some may show "attitude" and then we see the dogpiles.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Good popints George.

If someone starts getting an attitude tell them to STFU  ;D

Honestly if someone starts giving an attitude that's when i loose all interest in helping the bugger out and figure their on their own.

 

[Larkvall]

I haven't been a member of this forum very long, but I am amazed at the volume of repeat questions. I am also bewildered why some people would choose to come here for answers instead of offical sources.

Example

Can I bring X to BMQ? Well if somebody on here says yes and you show up and it turns X is not allowed you are going to look like a fool trying to explain it.

Policies are always changing. Information on this site needs to be taken with a grain of salt and should not be considered a substitute for information from offical sources.

 

[matt101pwn]

I can understand someone asking the same question more then one time. But I don't, I ask once when I was new and now use the Search function. I have also made a new post after recieving feedback from many members. Yes, I am new, Yes I can be annoying sometimes, but I try my best to act in a responsible manner as best as possible. No, I am not going to like flip on you as some others do,Because I respect you all. You have more experience, and more knowledge then I do. So you deserve respect. Also, I have posted a new topic on Barack Obama sending 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, I forgot who said I have made dumb posts, but I have learned, and I am starting to do research and clearly reading everything before I post. The link to my new topic is-- http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/90862/post-894738#msg894738

Please comment if you wish. Thanks again;Matt

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

I can only assume that the volume of questions coming to us here indicates that the official information is either not available, or (more likely) those looking for it perceive that it's more easily obtained here. That is, many would rather anonymously post a question here and risk getting an inaccurate reply than identify themselves to 'the system' with a question, in case it's seen as silly.

Also, the official response may not include tips and tricks from those who have recently been there, done that. There's nothing like getting info from someone who was just through the meat grinder to feel comfortable about what lies ahead. A recruiter is not likely to provide that level of insight... I don't imagine it's their job to do so.

In a sense, people come here precisely because we're not the official source of information.

 

[Otis]

You would be correct Mr. Bobbitt, it isn't a Recruiters job to hold anyone's hand through the system.

We DO attempt to help when we can, and I have been known to 'push' files through for people who have made a good impression, and sometimes we will even give out hints and tips and tricks to aid in the process (i.e. HOW and WHAT to study for an aptitude test) but we don't always have the time or the motivation to do so.

Just like every other human being, we have our moods and tempo and issues, and the onus is on the applicant to get all of the info and do the research ... after all, they ARE the ones looking for a job.

ARMY.CA is an excellent resource for these people to ask the dumb questions and do some of the research ... even better than a lot of other resources because there ARE so many people fact-checking, looking over the shoulders of other posters and willing to call BS when they see it. I think this makes this site a much more reliable resource as long as people are willing to read entire threads and not just take out a point or two that they want to see ...

:2c:

Otis

 

[George Wallace]

What can you do?  We have everyone complaining about how their questions aren't answered the way they would like.  How about this one?

Hi, my question is regarding the availability of the Infantry and Armored MoS. Iv searched the site, used the search feature and and unable to find a topic answering my question, so apology's if this has been answered,

After applying, my interests being Infantry, or Armored, I was told that the combat positions (Including Artillery, and Combat Eng) are at a surplus (Full) until April when they release the new information regarding jobs being hired for. I'm curious if anyone else has heard the same thing?

Artillery and Combat Eng are also interests and would be happy to choose one of them if it's available.

Thanks in advance for any information, much appreciated!

And you wonder ?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Coyote - Post # 1 - "Canada needs Attack Helicopters"

Does anyone see why we get frustrated?

Anyone?

Bueller?

 

[aesop081]

Coyote - Post # 1 - "Canada needs Attack Helicopters"

Does anyone see why we get frustrated?

Anyone?

Bueller?

That post was pure genius. What your problem with it ?