Ombudsman's Probe into Canadian Forces Recruiting and Training Backlog.

[Kirkhill]

This is the only on-line version of this article I could find.  A longer version in the National Post and the Vancouver Sun detailed the number of complaints Morin has received from bodies cooling their heals waiting to be processed and waiting to be trained, as well as referring to the numbers that have just got fed-up and left.

 
 
Wed, September 29, 2004



Watchdog to probe military recruiting

By CP

OTTAWA -- Canada's military watchdog plans an inquiry into how the Defence Department handles recruiting. Andre Marin, ombudsman for National Defence and the Canadian Forces, is to announce the inquiry at a news conference today.

The investigation follows a 2003 Queen's University study that warned of a serious decline in the military after years of penny-pinching.

The study found that the recruitment of new soldiers is ignored whenever budgets are tight. There have also been complaints that there aren't enough experienced soldiers to train recruits.

The military has a limit of 60,000 personnel, including recruits.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2004/09/29/pf-647837.html

 

[Michael OLeary]

This should be interesting to follow. I do hope they spend some time interviewing potential recruits who have been waiting on the process. Perhaps they should start with a few of the dicussion threads here to increase their situational awareness before they start with the Recruiting Group.

 

[McG]

Good.  Maybe something will get fixed.

 

[JasonH]

Military Ombudsman André Marin announced an investigation Wednesday into the Canadian Forces' recruiting practices.

The recruitment practices of the Canadian Forces will be subject to a "systemic investigation" Canada's military Ombudsman announced Wednesday.

André Marin made the announcement Wednesday as he tabled his 2003-2004 annual report in Ottawa, citing complaints of discrimination and a recent pledge by Prime Minister Paul Martin to increase the size of the Canadian Forces.

â Å“For the last few years, we have accumulated hundreds of complaints dealing with applicants to the Canadian Forces who have told us that they have been discriminated against during the application process," Mr. Marin said.

"We have heard tales of how the system is ill equipped to handle the current influx of candidates. All of this is happening while the government has announced plans to augment the forces by 8,000 soldiers."

Chief of Defence Staff General Ray Henault said in August that the number of people in uniform will go up by 5,000 over the next several years, bringing total strength of the regular forces to 65,000.

Most of the increase will be in the army, the service branch that has been the busiest with overseas operations during the past decade. The plan also calls for an increase in the army reserves, boosting those numbers to 18,500 from the current 15,500

According to the report, in 2003-2004 the Ombudsman's Office received 1265 new cases, raising 1672 complaints. The top five categories of complaints dealt with benefit entitlements, release issues, medical issues, recruitment and harassment.

Mr. Marin's report criticizes the chain of command in the Canadian Forces, saying some of his reports have been met with a "defensiveness and an unwillingness to evaluate our criticisms with objectivity and introspection."

"The entire point in having an Ombudsman is to increase openness and transparency, and to identify and deal with problems that affect the welfare of CF members," Mr. Marin writes. "If the morale of the lower-ranking soldiers is suffering because of ongoing problems, I cannot ignore this for fear that my reports or comments will affect the morale of the senior members of the chain of command."

 

[Pieman]

I really hope they manage to change things for the better. A couple sentences interested me here:

For the last few years, we have accumulated hundreds of complaints dealing with applicants to the Canadian Forces who have told us that they have been discriminated against during the application process

The system is slow, cumbersome, and   inefficient. I can   imagine that the complaints about the medical system are valid. But is the system discriminatory? I have never noticed anyone post anything on here that would fall into the discrimination category.

Mr. Marin's report criticizes the chain of command in the Canadian Forces, saying some of his reports have been met with a "defensiveness and an unwillingness to evaluate our criticisms with objectivity and introspection

Wonder how much truth there is to that statement.

 

[GINge!]

1200 complaints out of 50000 soldiers are being handled by the budman? What is that like 1 in 30 CF members have a complaint that can't be resolved by the chain? Or does the budman deal with VAC as well?

 

[Blindspot]

Military ombudsman plans to investigate problems in recruiting system

Canada - Canadian Press


JOHN WARD

OTTAWA (CP) - With the government planning a major expansion of the Canadian Forces, the military ombudsman is to investigate the recruiting system, which he says is having problems.

 

In the June election campaign, Prime Minister Paul Martin promised to add 5,000 regular soldiers and 3,000 reservists to the ranks, but ombudsman Andre Marin said the recruiting system is ill-equipped to handle that influx. "How can the military absorb such an increase in personnel when it is only meeting its recruiting targets in the last year by the skin of its teeth?"


He said his office has received 570 complaints about recruitment over the past five years and he's opening a nine-month investigation of the whole system.


"The complaints deal with incredible delays," he said.


Some would-be soldiers wait for up to a year while the bureaucratic wheels grind. Many become discouraged and abandon their efforts to join.


"They can't wait a year, they want a job now."


Marin said part of the problem stems from overly strict interpretation of the rules.


"We should be throwing the doors open."


Some say the recruiting problems are caused, in part at least, by budget problems. Senior soldiers who should be training the recruits can't because they are serving on overseas missions.


Marin said he can't prejudge his investigation.


The Canadian Forces is authorized to have 60,000 uniformed people, but has only 52,000-54,000 trained troops in its ranks.


Marin said he thinks the military can add the new numbers, but only if it is more flexible with the rules.


"You want to be an employer of choice," he said.


Gordon O'Connor, the Conservative defence critic, said a review of the recruiting system is overdue.


"I get e-mails and letters from all across Canada from people who have difficulties with the Defence Department," he said.


"One of the common trends is recruiting, whether it's regular or reserves.


"It's as if the system was set up not to accept anybody at the other end."

He said the proposed increase in manpower will pose major problems.

"I hope they straighten out the recruiting system so they can actually process them."

Marin also issued his annual report Wednesday, saying that even after five years, his office still gets the cold shoulder from senior brass at times.

Some of his reports have raised the hackles of top officers, who sometimes see him as making the military look bad.

One report last year, which chided the Forces for clawing back per diem allowances given to soldiers at a training course, seemed to provoke an angry response and briefly chilled relations between the brass and the ombudsman.

The soldiers complained that losing the money caused financial hardship, but couldn't get the money back until Marin issued his public report. The military responded almost overnight.

The chill that report caused seems to have thawed, he said. He praised Gen. Ray Henault, the chief of the defence staff, for encouraging co-operation.

Marin's office handled more than 1,200 complaints last year and settled more than 1,100.

His report also returned to a perennial complaint; that his mandate isn't entrenched in legislation. His legitimacy comes not from Parliament, but from an order of the chief of the defence staff, something Marin called an anomaly.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

1200 complaints out of 50000 soldiers are being handled by the budman? What is that like 1 in 30 CF members have a complaint that can't be resolved by the chain? Or does the budman deal with VAC as well?

Most of the complainants are probably not members of the CF.  I wonder how many people are being turned away for valid reasons and then raising complaints by invoking the spectre of racism.  Let's hope the investigation gets to the bottom of it quickly.

 

[Jarnhamar]

"1200 complaints out of 50000 soldiers" 

Thats just the people who bother to complain.
What about the people who get fed up and just forget about it OR the people who just keep putting up with the shit crossing their fingers and hoping for the best.

I bet one person complains out of every 10 or 20 who get screwed around.

If our recruiting wasn't so messed up the PM wouldn't have to promise to add 5000 new soldiers, we'd already have them.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Most of the complainants are probably not members of the CF.   I wonder how many people are being turned away for valid reasons and then raising complaints by invoking the spectre of racism.   Let's hope the investigation gets to the bottom of it quickly.

I agree with you Mike, but I am wondering if the complaints aren't grounded in a bit of reverse discrimination on the basis of race or gender. I'm not trying to provoke a fight with anybody, but are there any stats or policies that could be held as evidence that women or visible/religious/language minorities are recieving preferential treatment in the recruiting process. I am asking this, because the CHRC mandates this sort of policy in other federal government departments, but I am not sure about the CF.

 

[JBP]

To be honest, I cannot remember exactly where because I was visiting two sites at the time, but there is about 2,500 females in the Canadian Forces... On paper that is, I seen that stat on here or on the DND website...

Not very high obviously...

 

[onecat]

Well from what I've heard the CF's for have a regional quota system set up.  30 or 40% are set a side for the mari-time provinces, so if that's true then there is discrimination.  Might be great if live out east, but if come Ontario or Alberta where they lower quotas it just adds to your wait time to get in.

 

[Pieman]

Most of the complainants are probably not members of the CF.   I wonder how many people are being turned away for valid reasons and then raising complaints by invoking the spectre of racism.   Let's hope the investigation gets to the bottom of it quickly.

I checked the statistics on the Ombudsman websight. The vast majority of complaints are coming from CF members with 648 complaints. These complaints appear to be with regards to benefits, release, and medical issues.  

I notice something bizarre, Complaints from applicants to the CF total 51, yet the total number of complaints about the recruiting process total 134. I can only assume that the rest of the complaints about recruiting are coming from former members of the CF who are trying to get back into the CF, I can't think of who else would be doing it. (Former members of the CF logged 230 complaints in total)

Stats can be found here: http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/reports/annual/2003-2004ap_e.asp#1

I was fortunate enough to catch the press release and interview on tv, the CAPC channel. One of the reporters asked the Ombudsman directly if any of the discrimination complaints were the result of racism. He replied that it was certainly a possibility, but that he did not believe there were complaints like that. He noted that because the investigation is just starting, it is possible that anything could surface.

He also said that he did not like the way things were being handled in the recruiting process because a lack of flexibility with regards to the rules were being shown. He said: 'Here is a rule, but use common sense with respect to that rule.' The Ombudsman seems very sincere and down to earth, I have a lot of hope that things are going to get fixed.

For any of your who are in the recruiting process and reading this, and are unhappy with the way things are going, this is the time to write the Ombudsman. I don't think you have to launch an official complaint, unless you feel your situation is serious,  but it is not going to hurt to relate your situation to him. I am going to write him an email and tell him how my application is going...or rather not going anywhere at all. This kind of information may help his investigation.

 

[jfladeroute]

I notice something bizarre, Complaints from applicants to the CF total 51, yet the total number of complaints about the recruiting process total 134. I can only assume that the rest of the complaints about recruiting are coming from former members of the CF who are trying to get back into the CF, I can't think of who else would be doing it. (Former members of the CF logged 230 complaints in total)

That makes a great deal of sense, actually. The entire concept of the sup reserve has failed badly, both as a pool of trained soldiers and as an "easy" way for bringing people back on strength. It's faster and easier to recruit someone new than to try to bring someone back - while both instances hit the backlogs created by centralization of the medical certification, returning members also have to go through the horrendous process known as the "verification of former service". I know that when I returned off the sup reserve, my file was ready to go within eight weeks - except for the vfs.

That took another year. And, even then, in the end no one could find my files. Thanks to corporate memory, I was granted all my previous qualifications, but everything was freshly input into the system with a date of 1 Apr 99. Looking at my pers file, I was enrolled on that date, passed every course on that date, got promoted three times on that date, etc. Boy, was I tired.  ;D

I haven't bothered to check on my retirement gratuity, but I will be thoroughly dismayed if that is to be based on the spurious '99 date, too.

 

[Long in the tooth]

Our enrolment and transfer system between RegF and Reserve (and vise versa) is primeval.   I believe the Ombudsman's assertions about enrolments, as I've seen first hand how long some of these files have been in play.   We spent tens of thousands of hours ensuring that data entered in peoplesoft was accurate but still must have the original pers file reviewed before a formal VFS is issued.   On the flip side, I'm sure Mr Marin probably wouldn't appreciate investigating 'irregular enrolments' because someone cut corners...

 

[ICEDEAR]

edit

 

[bigwig]

I read that the other day in the Toronto Sun and thought what a lucky SOB I am for getting in when I did. I think paramedic should read this, it might give him some answers as to why he wasn't selected yet....YET!

 

[DrSize]

"recommendations within nine months on how the military can loosen rigid recruiting rules that he believes exclude healthy and gung-ho Canadians on technicalities."

I have a feeling I may fall under some technicality for the medical even though I am healthy....the only thing I can think of why I was given a 3 for geographical was for an old sports injury from like 10 years ago that I have fully recovered from some odd 10 years ago

 

[AndrewD83]

Am I missing something?  That article is very unclear.  How are potential recruits being rejected from positions in the army?  Is it due to their previous health conditions?

I need my Vancouver Sun to spell every issue out for me I guess.  ;D

By the way Dr.Size thanks for your words of wisdom on the CFAT.  I wrote the CFAT in mid Sept and passed it with flying colours. 

 

[Stymiest]

I think the recruiting process is all quite ridiculous.

I am fit as a whistle and have no health problems at all.  I applied two months ago to join the army reserve and went in for my medical yesterday and because I had Migraines when I was a young boy and had a injury to the spleen playing hockey (it wasn't removed and is perfectly fine) I have to wait another four months to get into this program. 

I am not even sure if I will be getting in yet its really quite annoying.  I should of just lied about the migraines as they have never even been documented and I never took any medication for them.

I want to apply to RMC and thought this would be a perfect way of getting in and if not making some cash on the side for college.  Now because of this huge hassle I have to wait another 3 months and I don;t want to get a job and have to quit (what a friggin predicament).  Maybe I'll just lie about my past health issues the next time i go in for medicals 

Seriously though I hcan;t even remember the last time I had a migraine and all this holdup is really starting to get to me.  6 months to get a job is ridiculous and I think this system needs to be looked at.