Officer at 16/17?

[Ambrivian]

First of all, I'm sorry if these questions have been answered somewhere else, but I've had a really hard time finding them. Before I contact a recruiting center, I'd like to know if anyone has any further information regarding my situation.

A bit about myself; I'm only fifteen (birthday is in September) and I'm currently a Sergeant in army cadets. I'm starting grade eleven next year, and I'm looking into getting out of cadets and joining the reserves as an officer (calm down, read the rest first ).

One of my friends in cadets who is sixteen - and turning seventeen months before I am - said he was considering quitting so that he could join the reserves as an officer, and then work as one until he was done university. He said he would start his training at seventeen or sixteen and work as an officer (probably as an officer cadet) until he graduated. He doesn't want to do a ROTP, because he doesn't see the military as a career for him. IS this scenario even possible? I've come to the conclusion that you have to be at least earning a degree to be an officer, even an uncommissioned one as an officer cadet.

If it is possible, my idea is to start at sixteen or seventeen as an officer cadet in the reserves and complete all my basic officer courses, and then enroll in a ROTP once I'm done high-school. The benefit I see in this is that I'll be "getting my feet wet" as well as having an exciting part-time job and finishing my basic courses years before I need to. This sounds like a great plan, but I don't know if it's possible. (If I need to though, I would do the scenario my friend planned on and then just do a transfer.)

So, any ideas, comment, questions or concerns?

Thanks!

 

[JorgSlice]

From forces.ca:

To be eligible to apply to the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following three minimum requirements:

• Be a Canadian Citizen
• Be 17 years of age (with parental or guardian consent) or older, except:
  Regular Officer Training Plan – Junior applicants, who must be 16 years of age or older
• Meet the minimum education requirements for your desired military occupation:
  Grade 10 or Secondaire IV in Quebec, and additional educational prerequisites as specified by the occupation

Despite what it says, I think you will not be able to undergo any training until you turn 17/18 anyway.

 

[PuckChaser]

Despite what it says, I think you will not be able to undergo any training until you turn 17/18 anyway.

What?  ??? You cannot deploy until you're 18. You can train until your heart's content before then.

I'm pretty sure most units won't accept you as a RESO until you show a university acceptance letter, unless your friend is going to university at 17, his plan isn't going to work.

 

[JorgSlice]

What?  ??? You cannot deploy until you're 18. You can train until your heart's content before then.

I'm pretty sure most units won't accept you as a RESO until you show a university acceptance letter, unless your friend is going to university at 17, his plan isn't going to work.

Oh right, deployment, disregard then.

 

[brihard]

You can join the reserves at 16 so long as you remain a full time high school student. The CF recruiting site doesn't state this, but the forces-wide message that altered the recruiting standards this past year, and I've personally seen it happen in the past six months when I was working as a reserve recruiter.

To join as an officer, though, yeah- you'll have to show proof of attendance or acceptance to university. Consider spending time in the ranks for a couple years; it'll give you a bit of a leg up when you later on move on to going officer.

 

[Ambrivian]

You can join the reserves at 16 so long as you remain a full time high school student. The CF recruiting site doesn't state this, but the forces-wide message that altered the recruiting standards this past year, and I've personally seen it happen in the past six months when I was working as a reserve recruiter.

To join as an officer, though, yeah- you'll have to show proof of attendance or acceptance to university. Consider spending time in the ranks for a couple years; it'll give you a bit of a leg up when you later on move on to going officer.

Actually it won't, because this was one of my initial concerns. My dad (CFR Air Force Captain) said that the transfer process in the forces is terrible, and he has B class reservists that would be doing the exact same job in the regular forces but their paperwork isn't going through. I don't want this to happen to me when I want to switch to a ROTP.

 

[PuckChaser]

Actually it won't, because this was one of my initial concerns. My dad (CFR Air Force Captain) said that the transfer process in the forces is terrible, and he has B class reservists that would be doing the exact same job in the regular forces but their paperwork isn't going through. I don't want this to happen to me when I want to switch to a ROTP.

Your dad is an authority on ROTP? His Cl B reservists either want to stay reservists, or they're transferring into trades that are full hence the long wait. If you spend some time in the PRes as a NCM, it will look better on your file and place you higher than some off the street schmoe with no time in. I don't think I've ever heard of a ROTP application being stuck in the system so someone misses a school year, provided you decide the fall before you want to transfer that you are going to apply. Things don't happen overnight, but they're not going to drop you a school year just for fun.

 

[Ambrivian]

Your dad is an authority on ROTP? His Cl B reservists either want to stay reservists, or they're transferring into trades that are full hence the long wait. If you spend some time in the PRes as a NCM, it will look better on your file and place you higher than some off the street schmoe with no time in. I don't think I've ever heard of a ROTP application being stuck in the system so someone misses a school year, provided you decide the fall before you want to transfer that you are going to apply. Things don't happen overnight, but they're not going to drop you a school year just for fun.

I never said he was, I said that's what we decided on. I know that their trafes aren't full though, because they'd be doing the same job, still working for my dad.

Would it be worth being a reserve NCM for only two years, or would cadets look better then?

 

[Petard]

First of all, I'm sorry if these questions have been answered somewhere else, but I've had a really hard time finding them. Before I contact a recruiting center, I'd like to know if anyone has any further information regarding my situation.

A bit about myself; I'm only fifteen (birthday is in September) and I'm currently a Sergeant in army cadets. I'm starting grade eleven next year, and I'm looking into getting out of cadets and joining the reserves as an officer (calm down, read the rest first ).

If it is possible, my idea is to start at sixteen or seventeen as an officer cadet in the reserves and complete all my basic officer courses, and then enroll in a ROTP once I'm done high-school. The benefit I see in this is that I'll be "getting my feet wet" as well as having an exciting part-time job and finishing my basic courses years before I need to. This sounds like a great plan, but I don't know if it's possible. (If I need to though, I would do the scenario my friend planned on and then just do a transfer.)

So, any ideas, comment, questions or concerns?

Thanks!

I deal with interviewing prospective applicants at a Primary Reserve unit, so this is a somewhat qualified opinion.

So far, your reasoning sounds like you, and your friend, have the expectation these things are possible simply because you've asked for them, and that its more about what you can get out of it vice what you can contribute. But I suppose that is to be expected given your experience in this sort of thing is understandably very limited.  There are a couple of things to be aware of.

The number of positions any Reserve unit can recruit to are limited, consequently it is usually a very competitive process as to whether or not you would be accepted as an officer candidate, or for an NCM position, before even being sent to the recruiting centre for processing. There is every sign these positions will become even more limited.

You're not going to get a simple answer here in this one thread. Give it some more time, and read some more; even this site has quite a bit if useful information, if you're willing (and patient enough) to look for it.

 

[Ambrivian]

I deal with interviewing prospective applicants at a Primary Reserve unit, so this is a somewhat qualified opinion.

So far, your reasoning sounds like you, and your friend, have the expectation these things are possible simply because you've asked for them, and that its more about what you can get out of it vice what you can contribute. But I suppose that is to be expected given your experience in this sort of thing is understandably very limited.  There are a couple of things to be aware of.

The number of positions any Reserve unit can recruit to are limited, consequently it is usually a very competitive process as to whether or not you would be accepted as an officer candidate, or for an NCM position, before even being sent to the recruiting centre for processing. There is every sign these positions will become even more limited.

You're not going to get a simple answer here in this one thread. Give it some more time, and read some more; even this site has quite a bit if useful information, if you're willing (and patient enough) to look for it.

I have all the time in the world, because I know that eventually I'll be in the military, it's just a matter of when.

As for the army reserve units, there are three (maybe four?) here in Victoria, and I'm sure that at least one of them is recruiting. I've come to the understanding that you need to be at least in the process of earning a degree to become an officer in the Regular Force or the Reserves. I don't think that joining the reserves as an NCM right now would be a wise choice for me, because cadets teaches me leadership, which is something that being a reserves private wouldn't. The training I'd receive as a reservist I'll still get when I do decide to join after high-school.

 

[Habs]

I have all the time in the world, because I know that eventually I'll be in the military, it's just a matter of when.

As for the army reserve units, there are three (maybe four?) here in Victoria, and I'm sure that at least one of them is recruiting. I've come to the understanding that you need to be at least in the process of earning a degree to become an officer in the Regular Force or the Reserves. I don't think that joining the reserves as an NCM right now would be a wise choice for me, because cadets teaches me leadership, which is something that being a reserves private wouldn't. The training I'd receive as a reservist I'll still get when I do decide to join after high-school.

What makes you think being a Sgt. in the cadets will weigh more heavily than being a Pte. in the Reserves?

A buddy of mine was an officer in the cadets until he was 18. We were talking, and he said that sure, you hold higher ranks in the cadets at a young age than in the Reserves. However, the cadets is NOTHING like the Reserves. The only similar thing you do is drill and field exercises (which he said was nothing more than camping).

Now, keep in mind those are HIS words and HIS opinion, NOT mine. So if that isn't true, don't come bashing me!

And while I am not an officer, yes, you do need a degree to become one. It states that all over the ROTP site, on this site, and forces.ca

 

[Ambrivian]

What makes you think being a Sgt. in the cadets will weigh more heavily than being a Pte. in the Reserves?

A buddy of mine was an officer in the cadets until he was 18. We were talking, and he said that sure, you hold higher ranks in the cadets at a young age than in the Reserves. However, the cadets is NOTHING like the Reserves. The only similar thing you do is drill and field exercises (which he said was nothing more than camping).

Now, keep in mind those are HIS words and HIS opinion, NOT mine. So if that isn't true, don't come bashing me!

And while I am not an officer, yes, you do need a degree to become one. It states that all over the ROTP site, on this site, and forces.ca

Well, the training that I would receive as a Pte. in the Reserves wouldn't even be the same thing I'd have to do again when I would want to start my ROTP. As a cadet, we might not do that much military stuff, but the one thing they do teach here is leadership, which is one of the three aims of cadets. I know as a fact, that I wouldn't get leadership training as a reserves private.

I also know that I'll be getting a degree one way or another, and I'm looking to be the first officer in the family, we don't count my dad's CFR haha.

 

[Nostix]

Leadership training is overrated.

Learning to work hard and listen to direction is underrated, and in my opinion, probably more valuable to a leader.

 

[Petard]

Well, the training that I would receive as a Pte. in the Reserves wouldn't even be the same thing I'd have to do again when I would want to start my ROTP. As a cadet, we might not do that much military stuff, but the one thing they do teach here is leadership, which is one of the three aims of cadets. I know as a fact, that I wouldn't get leadership training as a reserves private.

I also know that I'll be getting a degree one way or another, and I'm looking to be the first officer in the family, we don't count my dad's CFR haha.

Be sure to mention these things should you make it to the interview stage at the recruiting centre.

 

[MSEng314]

Leadership training is overrated.

Learning to work hard and listen to direction is underrated, and in my opinion, probably more valuable to a leader.

Well said, and if I can also add to this, it is also important to know who your experts are, and to listen to the people who know more than you.

 

[Maxadia]

Most of us who are older that you have a bit of life experience that can apply here.  I do understand what you mean by the taining not focusing on "leadership", but realize that while leadership can be taught it is better learnt.  Therefore, many times the worker bees (military/business) have a better idea on leadership than those in management who delegate. 

Time spent in the ranks is NEVER wasted.  Knowing fully how the minds work of the people you lead can be quite beneficial.

 

[Ambrivian]

Be sure to mention these things should you make it to the interview stage at the recruiting centre.

Of course.

Most of us who are older that you have a bit of life experience that can apply here.  I do understand what you mean by the taining not focusing on "leadership", but realize that while leadership can be taught it is better learnt.  Therefore, many times the worker bees (military/business) have a better idea on leadership than those in management who delegate. 

Time spent in the ranks is NEVER wasted.  Knowing fully how the minds work of the people you lead can be quite beneficial.

By taught, I mean that we get experience with leadership. As a sergeant I'm in charge of a section of eight cadets, but I also run the Friday-night sports for my corps as the fitness instructor. Next year I'll hopefully be a platoon warrant, and I'll be responsible for three section commanders and 20-30 cadets. This summer (in seven days actually) I'll be heading off to Rocky Mountain Summer Training Center for a Leadership and Challenge Course, one of the most advanced courses in cadets.

I can see what you mean from being in the ranks. You can understand how your soldiers think, and you can also observe other leadership styles. My dad always says that you can learn more from a bad leader than from a good one.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I can see what you mean from being in the ranks. You can understand how your soldiers think, and you can also observe other leadership styles. My dad always says that you can learn more from a bad leader than from a good one.

I had heard that platitude too, decades ago, from someone more senior than I, who (after I observed him for a while) I later judged to be a bad mediocre leader and who later (after I was commissioned) worked for me.  Did I learn anything about leadership from him . . . yes . . . don't always listen to platitudes.  Can you learn anything from a bad leader . . .  maybe . . . but probably only if you have an example of good leadership to which to compare him.  Bad leaders are often obvious in the examples they provide.  Truly good leaders usually make it look effortless.  The secret is knowing the difference.

 

[cupper]

To add to what has already been said, spending time in the ranks before hand can provide a better appreciation of what the people under your command do in their jobs.

For example, let's say you decide to become an EME officer.  If you spend a couple of years in a maintenance company as a vehicle tech, you would receive the trades training on vehicle repair, recovery ops and so forth. Then when you become an officer, you would have a better appreciation for what your craftsmen do both in garrison and in the field, and what resources are needed to ensure that they can accomplish teh tasks that you give them. It would also give you a leg up on the other EME officers that came in directly as officers when you do the trades training module or block of officer training.

 

[aesop081]

On the reverse side of the coin, i have met / worked with CCFR officers who never managed to get out of the "shop floor" mindset and get on with the big picture things, which is there responsibly. They were the ones micromanaging their senior NCMs because that level is what they knew and were used to.

Having spent time in the ranks, does not, by itself, make a better officer.