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NSA Whistle-blower Ed Snowden

In a report in the National Post we learn that "Edward Snowden, believed to be in legal limbo in the Moscow airport, is expanding his requests for asylum to another 19 countries, including China, according to WikiLeaks."

 
He's made his bed (of nails) and soon will have to lie in it.  I'll enjoy that moment in time.  That's what he get's for getting sucked in by Assange.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
In a report in the National Post we learn that "Edward Snowden, believed to be in legal limbo in the Moscow airport, is expanding his requests for asylum to another 19 countries, including China, according to WikiLeaks."

IMO he thought he'd be welcomed with open arms into some country by now like a saviour of democracy, when in all reality nobody wants to touch this guy with a 10-foot pole. I wonder if it makes him feel bad that Ecuador would hide someone accused of sexual assault over him?
 
He may end up in Venezuela, if the new Prez will give him a ride in his aircraft, but my money is on him being forcibly placed on an aircraft by Russian security and being flown to some other country which has an extradition treaty with the US.

And now his Father is comparing him to Paul Revere, rousing the citizens to the alarm call over the tyrannical US Government usurping the Constitution and the freedom and will of the people. ::)

Edward Snowden’s father, in letter, compares son to Paul Revere, assails administration

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/02/edward-snowdens-in-letter-compares-son-to-paul-revere-assails-obama-administration/

Edward Snowden’s father Lon Snowden, in an open letter co-authored with his lawyer, compared his son’s leaks to Paul Revere warning of incoming British troops, “summoning the American people to confront the growing danger of tyranny and one branch government.”

The letter, released to news organizations, lauded Edward Snowden as following the “honorable tradition” of “brave men and women refusing to bow to government wrongdoing or injustice, and exalting knowledge, virtue, wisdom, and selflessness over creature comforts as the North Star of life.”

Much of the letter focused on criticizing the Obama administration, arguing it has revoked Snowden’s passport in order to make him “de facto stateless” and to “penalize [Snowden's] alleged violations of the espionage act.” Lon Snowden and his lawyer and co-author, Bruce Fein, pledged that they would be “unflagging in efforts to educate the American people about the impending ruination of the Constitution and the rule of law unless they abandon their complacency or indifference.” The letter implied that the Obama administration is seeking “planetary domination through force, violence or spying.”

In an aside, the letter also compared American politics to “a football game with winners and losers.”

According to the Associated Press, Lon Snowden released the open letter because he was “frustrated by his inability to reach out directly to his son.” It’s not clear why Snowden, who is in Moscow, would be unable to communicate with his father. Also according to the AP, Snowden’s father expressed concern that WikiLeaks, members of which have been working closely with Snowden in Moscow and whose founder Julian Assange has advocated publicly on his behalf, may not have his son’s best interests at heart.

Here is the letter in full:

Dear Edward:

I, Bruce Fein, am writing this letter in collaboration with your father in response to the Statement you issued yesterday in Moscow.

Thomas Paine, the voice of the American Revolution, trumpeted that a patriot saves his country from his government.

What you have done and are doing have awakened congressional oversight of the intelligence community from deep slumber; and, had already provoked the introduction of remedial legislation in Congress to curtail spying abuses under section 215 of the Patriot Act and section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. You have forced onto the national agenda the question of whether the American people prefer the right to be left alone from government snooping absent probable cause to believe crime is afoot to vassalage in hopes of a risk-free existence. You are a modern day Paul Revere summoning the American people to confront the growing danger of tyranny and one branch government.

In contrast to your actions, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper responded last March as follows to an unambiguous question raised by Senator Ron Wyden:

“Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” Clapper testified, “No sire, it does not.” Wyden asked for clarification, and Clapper hedged. “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”

Director Clapper later defended his stupendous mendacity to the Senator as the least untruthful answer possible. President Obama has not publicly rebuked the Director for frustrating the right of the people to know what their government is doing and to force changes if necessary through peaceful democratic processes. That is the meaning of government by the consent of the governed. “We the people” are sovereign under the U.S. Constitution, and government officials are entrusted with stewardship (not destruction) of our liberties.

We leave it to the American people to decide whether you or Director Clapper is the superior patriot.

The history of civilization is a history of brave men and women refusing to bow to government wrongdoing or injustice, and exalting knowledge, virtue, wisdom, and selflessness over creature comforts as the North Star of life. We believe your actions fall within that honorable tradition, a conviction we believe is shared by many.

As regards your reduction to de facto statelessness occasioned by the Executive Branch to penalize your alleged violations of the Espionage Act, the United Stated Supreme Court lectured in Trop v. Dulles (1958): “The civilized nations of the world are in virtual unanimity that statelessness is not to be imposed as punishment for crime.”

We think you would agree that the final end of the state is to make men and women free to develop their faculties, not to seek planetary domination through force, violence or spying. All Americans should have a fair opportunity to pursue their ambitions. Politics should not be a football game with winners and losers featuring juvenile taunts over fumbles and missteps.

Irrespective of life’s vicissitudes, we will be unflagging in efforts to educate the American people about the impending ruination of the Constitution and the rule of law unless they abandon their complacency or indifference. Your actions are making our challenge easier.

We encourage you to engage us in regular exchanges of ideas or thoughts about approaches to curing or mitigating the hugely suboptimal political culture of the United States. Nothing less is required to pay homage to Valley Forge, Cemetery Ridge, Omaha Beach, and other places of great sacrifice.

Very truly yours,

Bruce Fein, Counsel for Lon Snowden

Lon Snowden
 
cupper said:
He may end up in Venezuela, if the new Prez will give him a ride in his aircraft, but my money is on him being forcibly placed on an aircraft by Russian security and being flown to some other country which has an extradition treaty with the US.

And now his Father is comparing him to Paul Revere, rousing the citizens to the alarm call over the tyrannical US Government usurping the Constitution and the freedom and will of the people. ::)

Edward Snowden’s father, in letter, compares son to Paul Revere, assails administration

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/02/edward-snowdens-in-letter-compares-son-to-paul-revere-assails-obama-administration/

I can foresee this too,  or even the Russians handing him over directly if Snowden does something else really dumb.  Vladimir Putin seems to have been playing nice recently with the Americans on security related issues.  I have noticed Pres Obama, letting out loose hints in some speeches on how their police agency's and the Russians security agencies have been getting along regarding terrorism issues.  I'm starting to wonder if they struck some of kind of information sharing and protection against terrorism agreement behind the camera.

I don't want to derail the subject,  that would be for a new thread.
 
You really can't make this stuff up. It a comedy gift that keeps on giving.

Bolivian leader's plane rerouted on Snowden fear

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/bolivia-presidential-plane-edward-snowden-93679.html?hp=l3_b1

LA PAZ, Bolivia — Bolivia's foreign minister says the plane bringing President Evo Morales home from Russia was rerouted to Austria after France and Portugal refused to let it to cross their airspace because of suspicions that NSA leaker Edward Snowden was on board.

David Choquehuanca has denied that Snowden was on the plane, saying "we don't know who invented this lie, but we want to denounce to the international community this injustice with the plane of President Evo Morales."

Bolivia's foreign minister said Tuesday that both France and Portugal canceled authorization for the plane to enter their airspace.

Morales traveled to Russia over the weekend and from Moscow said he would consider an asylum request from the NSA leaker.
 
I think Glenn Greenwald has finally given up the right to claim credibility as a journalist.

Glenn Greenwald: New bombshell coming

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/glenn-greenwald-nsa-leak-edward-snowden-93648.html?hp=l3

Another big National Security Agency scoop is coming soon, Glenn Greenwald said on Tuesday.

“Just wait a little bit, you’ll have it,” The Guardian journalist who broke the NSA surveillance story said on “Fox & Friends.”

Although Greenwald wouldn’t reveal exactly what the new revelations are, he said the world “will be shocked.”

“I will say that there are vast programs, both domestic and international spying, that the world will be shocked to learn about, that the NSA is engaged in with no democratic accountability and that’s what driving our reporting,” Greenwald said.

Greenwald also said President Barack Obama’s administration is using leaker Edward Snowden as an example to prevent future whistleblowers from coming forward.

“I think what the Obama administration wants, and has been trying to establish for the last almost five years now with the unprecedented war on whistleblowers that it is waging, and to make it so that everybody is petrified of coming forward with information about what our political officials are doing in the dark that is deceitful, illegal or corrupt,” Greenwald said.

He added that the administration doesn’t care about Snowden anymore.

“They don’t care about Edward Snowden at this point; he can no longer do anything that he hasn’t already done; what they care about is making an extremely negative example out of him to intimidate future whistleblowers from coming forward because they’ll think that they’ll end up like him,” Greenwald said.
 
Shocked?  Was anyone shocked at the Snowden revelation or wikileaks? or Egypt on the brink of presidency failure again?  Maybe I'm just naive.  :facepalm:
 
cupper said:
I think Glenn Greenwald has finally given up the right to claim credibility as a journalist.

Glenn Greenwald: New bombshell coming

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/glenn-greenwald-nsa-leak-edward-snowden-93648.html?hp=l3
Harvard, Yale, Brown, UCLA, and many others strongly disagree with you. He was a constitutional and civil rights attorney before he became a journalist and has written three New York Times best sellers. Such petty character assassination is childish. The issue is the bypass of the Constitution and the aggregation of immense unregulated powers by government.

When I was a boy people defected to the USA, not from it. That makes it pretty obvious to me he has some valid points. The only reason people are not upset is because they expect abuse of power and immoral behaviour of the last remaining superpower.
 
Nemo888 said:
Harvard, Yale, Brown, UCLA, and many others strongly disagree with you. He was a constitutional and civil rights attorney before he became a journalist and has written three New York Times best sellers.

Damn!  That makes Ezra Levant on Sun Network a Journalist too.
 
George Wallace said:
Damn!  That makes Ezra Levant on Sun Network a Journalist too.
If you can't tell the difference between a civil rights activist and a former tobacco industry lobbyist,...
 
Nemo888 said:
Harvard, Yale, Brown, UCLA, and many others strongly disagree with you. He was a constitutional and civil rights attorney before he became a journalist and has written three New York Times best sellers. Such petty character assassination is childish. The issue is the bypass of the Constitution and the aggregation of immense unregulated powers by government.

When I was a boy people defected to the USA, not from it. That makes it pretty obvious to me he has some valid points. The only reason people are not upset is because they expect abuse of power and immoral behaviour of the last remaining superpower.

Journalists are expected to investigate and report on news worthy issues and events without undue personal bias entering into the story. I do believe that one of the tenants of journalism is to not make yourself part of the story. With this latest missive from Greenwald, stating that a shocking bombshell will soon be released, he has fully made himself part of the story.

Having a law degree and practicing in various fields of law is not a qualification for journalism. It may be helpful in pursuing a career in journalism, but is not a qualification.

Neither is having books on the NY Times Best Seller Lists. There are plenty of non-journalists who have achieved that recognition.
 
Nemo888 said:
If you can't tell the difference between a civil rights activist and a former tobacco industry lobbyist,...
Got it, liberal civil rights lawyer = journalist, conservative lobyist = poo flinging howler monkey, thanks.
 
Kat Stevens said:
conservative lobyist = poo flinging howler monkey, thanks.

On some networks, that does qualify as a journalist. ;D
 
Nemo888 said:
If you can't tell the difference between a civil rights activist and a former tobacco industry lobbyist,...

I couldn't really care to dwell too much on such trivia.  I can tell which way certain posters on the site will swing. 

"Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?"
(FIVE MAN ELECTRICAL BAND)

You come to mind. 
 
Following was published on Wikileaks  by Snowden
Reproduced under the fair use provision of the copyright act

"One week ago I left Hong Kong after it became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth. My continued liberty has been owed to the efforts of friends new and old, family, and others who I have never met and probably never will. I trusted them with my life and they returned that trust with a faith in me for which I will always be thankful.

On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case. Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions.

This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me.

For decades the United States of America have been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.

In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.

I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many.

Edward Joseph Snowden

Monday 1st July 2013"

Now I imagine that I will take some heat for this.

First I agree that eavesdropping on foreign nations is an act that all national governments indulge in. So yes his feet should  be in the fire for that.

On the domestic spying let me ask you a question.

Suppose that you were hired by an organization and signed a NDA not to disclose what the organization was doing to the general public, breach of which would involve  severe penalties.

And then you discovered that one of your key roles was to defraud investors, no, lets try something a little more plausible. Tap into heath records and make them available to insurer's to deny coverages.

The point that I am trying to make is that if the action is illegal, the equivalent if you will of an unlawful command, then the right minded individual has a moral obligation not to comply.

For the latter I feel he deserves commendation and support.

The governments are getting a little too comfy trampling the rights of the citizenry. Case in point up here, our dealer beloved ex Ontario premier, the gas plant closing baddy, illegally restricting access to public areas during the G20 summit.


Lets limit this to the matter at hand - what I see as the American publics rights to privacy and unwarranted surveillance - fourth amendment.

I think they deserve better

I hope you think they  deserve better too.
 
Inquisitor said:
The point that I am trying to make is that if the action is illegal, the equivalent if you will of an unlawful command, then the right minded individual has a moral obligation not to comply.

Disobeying an unlawful command and not complying is not the same thing as spreading incomplete and unauthorized information based on what you believe to be true. 
 
"Disobeying an unlawful command and not complying is not the same thing as spreading incomplete and unauthorized information based on what you believe to be true.  "

I agree with your point. He could have simply resigned rather than comply, with what both He, and I see  as illegal conduct.

He could have been more selective in what he released.  If individuals are harmed I deplore it.

Given that his superior, Gen Culper??, is reported to have given false statements to the oversight committee, and Snowden knew this. I can't see him as having a warm and fuzzy feeling about having this resolved internally, especially given the administrations reported crackdown on this sort of behavior.

Given the choice of actions, none palatable, he  chose what he saw as the lesser evil.

Say what you will about him, he may not have judgment, but I feel he had the courage, to speak truth to power.

 
What I see here is a very naïve "Leftie" whose view that the world is such a peaceful beautiful place in which all the West's Security Services are not required; that any such 'Service' that works in secret to preserve the security and safety of citizens is morally wrong.  One of those "Do Gooders" who thinks that they can change the world into a kinder gentler place by exposing anything that they feel may be a threat to the "peace loving peoples of the 'other' side".  He is truly a very naïve person who has lived a very sheltered life in my opinion. 

I wonder just how much the Chinese, and now the Russian, Intelligence agencies have been trying to get close to him clandestinely to garner real intelligence.
 
Until you start getting Watergate style break ins. Do we have any checks or balances to prevent such abuses or did we dismantle them all?
 
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