NSA Whistle-blower Ed Snowden

[Inquisitor]

I was just about to say that I should not have put the last 4 words on my last post.

I also suggest that I find the "Good old firing squad" solution interesting. I have a great idea "Lets shoot the messenger" Seems to deal with the symptom very effectively.

I suggest more effort be spent on fixing the problem. Two things that come to mind are better screening and monitoring.

It seems leaking can work too ways. Tomahawk6 would probably like a leaker to put out details of presumed Benghazi malfeasance, as would I and others. I have heard reports that the CIA is using a lot more polygraph tests on its staff.

An even better solution might be and more well thought out and articulated strategy for winning the long war. Playing whack-a-mole both overseas and at home doesn't seem to be playing out very well.

Enjoy the weekend the CNE will soon be here, with whack-a-mole on the Midway!!!!

 

[dimsum]

Don't believe me? Wait and see how the Snowden affair plays out. Bet he's on the cover of Rolling Stone before Christmas.

So was the Boston Marathon Bomber; that doesn't mean the RS are supportive of his (their) actions.  Hell, Adolf Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938.

I agree that Snowden will be on RS/Time/whatever, but not because he's supported.

 

[GAP]

Someone within the US Senate edited Edward Snowden's Wikipedia page to change his description from 'dissident' to 'traitor'

    The editor's IP address was tracked back to the US Senate
    The edit was made one day after Edward Snowden was granted political asylum in Russia

By Ryan Gorman  4 August 2013

A member of the US Senate was caught this week trying to make a rather conspicuous edit to Edward Snowden's Wikipedia page .

In a move sure to grind the gears of conspiracy theorists everywhere, a member of the US Senate recently edited Snowden’s Wikipedia page from describing him as a ‘dissident’ to a traitor, according to the entry’s changelog. The user’s IP address was quickly traced back to the US Senate.

It is not clear if the person is an active Senator, a staffer or an intern, but the change certainly came from the Senate.
more on link

 

[George Wallace]

What is news there, other than someone at Wiki leaking where the IP address is registered?  Anyone can edit Wikipedia pages.  The Site owners can trace any changes.  This is not news to anyone who know anything about Wikipedia.

 

[Transporter]

So was the Boston Marathon Bomber; that doesn't mean the RS are supportive of his (their) actions.  Hell, Adolf Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938.

I agree that Snowden will be on RS/Time/whatever, but not because he's supported.

There will be far more, and far more wide-spread, "support" for Snowden than Manning.

Snowden is a traitor, not a dissident.

 

[George Wallace]

There will be far more, and far more wide-spread, "support" for Snowden than Manning.

Snowden is a traitor, not a dissident.

Neither one of them is a 'Whistle-blower'.  Both made State secrets available internationally, thus selling out their country.  They are both traitors.  Julian Assange on the other hand, is nothing more than a common criminal handling 'stolen property'. 

 

[tomahawk6]

Snowden is now a defector and has been granted asylum in Russia. Life for a defector in the old USSR wasnt much fun,I wonder if Snowden will be regretting his choice ?

 

[Good2Golf]

In Snowden's case, being a traitor AND a defector need not be mutually exclusive...I would argue that as of this week, he is both.

 

[Inquisitor]

Materially Regret his choice - Probably not - Good Job with the equiivilant of facebook, Hot Russian Ex Spy Chick wants to "Marry" him.

That said - I don't envy him, He'll always be looking over his shoulder. Hopefully he'll slide into obscurity.

Many are grateful for exposing the  continued assault on human rights in the US.

He'll doubtless miss of the loss of his old country, as do many.  These are perilous days for Western Democracy.

 

[tomahawk6]

One way to look at it.How about another view ? One man took it upon himself to release highly classified documents that have the potential to jeapordize the lives of every American citizen.

 

[Inquisitor]

I see your point of view.  It's a heck of a problem.

There was a similar problem back in the 70's, a bitter public debate, strong worlds hurled by both sides.  Many of us up here watched in horror what was happening to your country.

Tomahawk6 I Know what its like to be ridiculed for serving.

What's the solution. In the 70's a consensus was reached, a solution was found and America rebounded.

How do we do the same? If I thought singing Kumbyah my lord would help I would. ;D

 

[Nemo888]

What would it matter to you?  You seem to find a conspiracy behind every door.  You have little knowledge of the legal checks and balances, nor the legal systems, in place to protect you, and use false speculation at every turn.

Then the US Department of Justice is part of my imagined conspiracy.
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/doj-lethal.pdf
You must have retired long ago. Your legal knowledge is from the last century.
If a "high level administration official" deems a citizen an "imminent threat" they can assassinate them legally now. That includes inciting people on the internet to attack America. Making kill orders based on opinions is now streamlined and easy. Not just for this administration, but for all future ones. Assassination by Presidential fiat without judicial oversight is now the law of the land. This is a huge change in policy and one that will reap a very bitter harvest in the future.

 

[Inquisitor]

It seems we face the modern equivilant of the  Gordian Knot?  An insoluble problem - link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

I prefer the versions that Alexander solved the problem of producing two ends by slicing it in half with his sword. thus winning many victories

What I am trying to say is that the problem is likely to worsen unless something happens to break a seeming stalemate.

I never ever ever thought I would say this but in may ways Mike Harris in Ontario seems to have faced the same, and the sky has not fallen.

Perhaps spend more time posting on some of the boards that I draw some of my sources from that they might want to reconsider as well

Weak again but it seems the best I can do.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It seems we face the modern equivilant of the  Gordian Knot?  An insoluble problem - link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

I prefer the versions that Alexander solved the problem of producing two ends by slicing it in half with his sword. thus winning many victories

What I am trying to say is that the problem is likely to worsen unless something happens to break a seeming stalemate.

I never ever ever thought I would say this but in may ways Mike Harris in Ontario seems to have faced the same, and the sky has not fallen.

Perhaps spend more time posting on some of the boards that I draw some of my sources from that they might want to reconsider as well

Weak again but it seems the best I can do.

Then the US Department of Justice is part of my imagined conspiracy.
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/doj-lethal.pdf
You must have retired long ago. Your legal knowledge is from the last century.
If a "high level administration official" deems a citizen an "imminent threat" they can assassinate them legally now. That includes inciting people on the internet to attack America. Making kill orders based on opinions is now streamlined and easy. Not just for this administration, but for all future ones. Assassination by Presidential fiat without judicial oversight is now the law of the land. This is a huge change in policy and one that will reap a very bitter harvest in the future.

You two better stay exactly on topic. This thread is about Snowden, and him only. If you drag another thread down the rabbit hole, and off topic, with your conspiracy theories, you'll be headed for the warning ladder for contravention of the guidelines. This will serve as your only warning on the matter.

---Staff---

 

[kevincanada]

Then the US Department of Justice is part of my imagined conspiracy.
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/doj-lethal.pdf
You must have retired long ago. Your legal knowledge is from the last century.
If a "high level administration official" deems a citizen an "imminent threat" they can assassinate them legally now. That includes inciting people on the internet to attack America. Making kill orders based on opinions is now streamlined and easy. Not just for this administration, but for all future ones. Assassination by Presidential fiat without judicial oversight is now the law of the land. This is a huge change in policy and one that will reap a very bitter harvest in the future.

I had a look although I'm not reading all that only the first page.  Since the main point of argument is "Executive Order 12333" to justify your and the author argument.  I thought I would call it up look for the word assassination in it and read the fine print at the bottom.  Here is a quote of the fine print from the CIA website.  While I am in no way a lawyer nor do I pretend to be, to me at the laymen level of interpretation of this.  It is a guideline that is not enforceable.

I quote:

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/eo12333.html#2.11

3.7 General Provisions.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is intended only to improve the internal management of the executive branch and is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity, by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

/s/ Ronald Reagan
The White House
December 4, 1981

Personal Notes:
- Federal employee and up are immune, everyone else below the federal level can have the provisions legally enforced.
- Can we go back to this being about Snowden now?

 

[Nemo888]

The latest leak is that the DEA use NSA intercepts for criminal enforcement. That is my line in the sand. Hunt terrorists all you want by whatever means you can imagine. Fill your boots. But like most people once civilian law enforcement gets access to this data I start to worry.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/dea-agents-directed-to-cover-up-secretive-investigative-program/article13607150/

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The latest leak is that the DEA use NSA intercepts for criminal enforcement. That is my line in the sand. Hunt terrorists all you want by whatever means you can imagine. Fill your boots. But like most people once civilian law enforcement gets access to this data I start to worry.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/dea-agents-directed-to-cover-up-secretive-investigative-program/article13607150/

Because Snowden gets mentioned off handedly at the end of the article doesn't mean the article is about him.

He is what this thread is about. You won't be warned again.

---Staff---

Edit - never mind, you were already warned. Have a nice time out.

 

[Inquisitor]

Don Murray: How Russia gains from sheltering Edward Snowden

Vladimir Putin's newest 'catch of the day'

Link here http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/02/f-vp-murray-snowden-putin.html

I found it an interesting comment piece. A pawn in the great game.  Feeling in Russia seems mixed. "Viewed almost as a hero ... almost 50% polled support asylum" two parts seem kinda contradictory.

 

[Inquisitor]

Another article - this one longer from Foreign Policy
Snowden's Butterfly Effect

5 unlikely consequences of the NSA leaks.

link here http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/05/edward_snowdens_butterfly_effect_unlikely_winners_losers?page=0,1

some comments reproduced under the fair dealings  provision  of the copyright act

"Call it the Snowden Butterfly Effect. Snowden's leaks have resounded in nearly every corner of global politics, and their precise consequences are only beginning to emerge. Most obviously, the former NSA contractor's disclosures have sparked a renewed debate over the scope of intelligence-gathering and handed China a powerful argument in countering American complaints over Chinese hacking activities.

,,,


Microsoft, meanwhile, found itself in the embarrassing position of running an ad campaign that declared "your privacy is our priority" just as the Guardian exposed that the company had handed over user content to the NSA and undermined its own encryption protocols for the agency's benefit

...


Other governments are digesting the NSA revelations with a mixture of awe and anger, and now want their own NSA-like capabilities. As a result, they may force companies to relocate their servers from the United States to the countries in which they operate -- making it that much easier to spy on their own citizens.

...

It isn't often that Tea Party Republicans and liberal Democrats find themselves on the same side of an issue, but in late July these two disparate factions united to very nearly pass an amendment in the House that would have defunded the NSA's bulk collection activities.

...

But for critics of the NSA and America's surveillance state, the vote marked the closest anyone has come to seriously curtailing an intelligence agency's powers in the post-9/11 era. Without Snowden, that would never have happened

...

In his State of the Union address this year, President Obama announced that he was launching talks for a free trade pact with the European Union. But on the heels of revelations that the NSA has been aggressively spying on European states and their citizens, those talks are now under significant strain

...

But no one, it seems, really wants to do business with Big Brother. "Our concern is that after the tragedy of 9/11 the U.S. security services may have run amok," Corien Wortmann-Kool, a Dutch member of the European Parliament, said in July. "We need to discuss the code of conduct and see that proper oversight is in place."

...

But even if the Obama administration has been unable to apprehend Snowden, the young NSA leaker forced the United States to flex its muscles - and, in so doing, helped prove just how influential a country America remains.

...

It is by no means obvious that the Russian president particularly relishes sheltering Snowden. The former KGB agent offered this choice comment on the benefits of keeping the NSA leaker in Russia: "It's like shearing a piglet. There's a lot of squealing and very little wool."

Hmmm Perhaps on that last note  I'll exit the thread

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Hmmm Perhaps on that last note  I'll exit the thread

Good plan. You're walking a fine line with your latest post.


---Staff---