Non-issue gloves (Hatch???)

[Laps]

Good day,

Being one of the black sheep of the CF (Airforce working for the army on an army base...), I found myself fighting for any piece of gear possible.  I do go in the field and freeze my a** like everyone else in -30 degrees trying to set up an artic tent...  (oups, was not supposed to be a rant...)

Whenever I go to clothing store to get army field kit issued, I am told that I am a pilot and therefore, not entitled to any field kit beside 3x cadpats, an old style webbing, a ruck and a sleeping bag (Huaa).  :brickwall: So, beside artic mitts, DEU and flying gloves, I get nothing.  I guess when all else fails, I go and buy myself what I need to keep my fingers dry and warm.  I looked around at some nice gloves (BlackHawk and Hatch) but wanted to get some input before I spend $70+ on a pair of gloves.  Anyone of you tried these gloves, how are they?  Where can they be had at a reasonable price (SEALS Action gear in Calgary seems to have the best price around for Hatch Operators - long for $69)?

Thanks!!!

Laps

PS.:  For those of you that think "WOW, Flying Gloves!!!" stop drooling, they are not the cat's meow...  They get wet really fast, are not all that warm and are really hard to get (even for aircrew!!), so when they are ripped, you are SOL.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

PM armyvern who works in Clothing Stores.  What is your "job" working with the army types?  I know that doesn't answer your direct question but if you feel your entitled armyvern is the one who can confirm it for you.

 

[Laps]

CFL...  This has been an ongoing issue fought well above our pay level (unless you are a 4-stripper or above.).  I am a TacHel pilot.  I go in the field, sleep in tents and live in the field the "field way".  I even work as an Aviation LO to combat units, living with them the army way for days or weeks...  I don't do "advance to contact" and LRPs, but I would consider what I do a CSS job.  CSS army trades get the "full meal deal" speaking of kits, we don't because we are "airforce".  There is only one scale of issue for pilots, regardless if you sleep in hotels, onboard a ship or in a 4 star mod-tent.  I gave up trying to get gear through the proper channels.  Is armyvern in Edmonton?  I might try my luck with him/her and see what I can get.  Nonetheless, I want to see what my other options are as Niner is planning an all expense paid vacation to the field in the next few months (winter months that is...).

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

armyvern is in Gagetown.  She is quite knowledgeable in her job and my be able to provide you some loop hole so to speak.

To be honest I've never seen any airforce in the field unless they were cooks, clerks or medics, and those (albeit not pilots) had everything we did.  Most likely because they were attached to a field unit.
I do appreciate your grip though not that it makes any difference to you.

 

[armyvern]

Laps,

I know the sit you're finding yourself in. The problem is caused because Hel Ots still falls under the direct CoC of the Air Force vice the Army. Scales of Entitlement are determined by Enviornmental Chiefs of Staff and the individual trades. Just as CEMS purchased new clothing for AF pers and Land/Naval pers employed in Air Force posns; the Clothe the Soldier (CTS) project purchased for Land pers and Air/Naval falling under direct control of Land Forces. There are a couple of things you can do in this situation.

1) Last option first. You can buy your own gloves to wear. I don't recommend that as you need suitable gloves to perform your job and so should get suitable gloves issued;

2) Submit a UCR (Unsatisfactory Condition Report) outlining the problems and shortfalls with the gloves you are issued and why they are unacceptable. In your UCR include a proposed fix. For example, if you feel there is a glove in the system that is suitable for what pilots require, include it's SN as a recommended replacement glove, or that it be issued as well as the flight gloves. Also state on your UCR that you recommend your MOC/Hel Ots scale of entitlement be ammended to include the new Stock number glove. This is the formal process of registering shortfalls in kit items, and I strongly recommended that you write it up (and get as many of your fellow pers to do the same). They are available electronicly and are submitted electronicaly. PM me and I'll send you my DIN e-mail address and I'll provide the UCR link (It's DIN only) as well as the CFAO direction for submitting it. Also the SN of any Army glove you think would be acceptable.
Depending upon what you are requesting, or the problem you are reporting, UCRs can take quite some time to action.
*As a point of note, most of our Army gear can't be issued to Hel Ots because it hasn't undergone any airworthiness/anti-static testing. I suspect that if you do think an Army issued glove is acceptable, airworthiness certifications would have to be completed prior to your scale of entitlement being ammended.

3) While you are waiting for the above UCR to be actioned: If you are aware of an acceptable glove on civy street (which I see that you are) take the details (part #, Store name, price etc) into the Hel Ots QM out there and request that they do a local purchase of these gloves on behalf of 408 Sqn members for the reasons you stated. This is not unheard of....that is how the roper gloves for Hel Ots are handled after all. Have the QM staff file a UCR as well. That won't hurt and may actually help as there will be a UCR from the pers that require the item and can justify why it's not acceptable, as well as a UCR going up the Supply side of the house to NDHQ simultaneously.

So, send me a PM and I'll send you my DIN e-mail address...and Give Sgt Thompson and Sgt Patten kicks in the butt from Vern (Please!!)  ;D

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

thanks av

 

[COBRA-6]

One point on the Hatch Gloves. Hatch Operators are very similar to flight gloves (I have both). The won't keep your hands warmer or drier.

Something esle to consider are Sealskinz gloves. They keep your hands relatively warm and dry, and still have enough dexterity to use your weapon. I found that my hands still feel damp after wearing them for long periods, but this is probably sweat. Good intermediate option between summer gloves and winter goretex ones.

Cheers

 

[Laps]

Mike,

Thanks for the input.  Are the Hatch more "solid" than flight gloves?  I need a good "all around" pair of gloves as I don't get the summer or goretex gloves issued

 

[Blackhorse7]

I have to be honest, I have used Hatch gloves (currently using the Operator shorty) for my eight years in the RCMP.  They are great, but I am considering switching to Blackhawks.  It just seems to me that my Hatch gloves wear out too fast for the coin I spend on them.  I have heard these complaints about them in the past.

 

[flashman]

+ 1 for the Sealskinz type.  I have a pair of MEC gloves that have worked great - all the dexterity of flight gloves and they are nice and warm.  These are them (or if there not, they're very close). 

 

[COBRA-6]

Mike,

Thanks for the input.  Are the Hatch more "solid" than flight gloves?  I need a good "all around" pair of gloves as I don't get the summer or goretex gloves issued

They have a bit more/thicker leather than the flight gloves I have (which are also made by hatch), but apart from that I haven't noticed a huge difference. These type of gloves should be viewed as consumable. They all wear out, so find a pair that fit you well and don't cost a huge amount and buy a few. I still carry the issued CADPAT leather gloves for more rugged tasks (digging in, clearing brush, etc)

 

[mudgunner49]

Dudes/Dudettes,

Southwest Motorsports Friction Fighters - there is nothing out there that can compare (that I have seen or used, at least) and my first pair is still going strong after 2+ years of getting hammered on... :cheers:


blake

 

[Laps]

Thanks for the hint Maj,

Where can these be bought, and how much $$$?

(What I like about this is that if our Sqn SM doesn't like them, I can say that somewhere, there is an army Maj wearing them...) 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

http://www.southwestmotorsports.com/

 

[freefaller]

Don't waste you're own money on the hatch gloves, they do not last long for the money you pay.

 

[fourninerzero]

I have a pair of MEC softshell gloves that I wear with a pair of N2S windstopper liner gloves.  Using them out in the field this weekend in snow, rain, sleet and cold, they worked well. Warm when they got wet, and dried out fast. plenty of dexterity too. I would rate them as comfortable to around -15.

 

[Grunt]

+1 on southwest motorsports gloves, I LOVE them.

 

[RossF]

I know Hatch gloves are respected and favoured among Ontario Provincial Police officers who are issued them..there are a few different kinds to really consider, depending on what you need them for exactly. But yeah overall pretty good.

 

[Hot Lips]

I think it is always worthwhile buying quality in the long run regardless of what kit you purchase...would you not agree?
Could you buy gloves through CPgear for that purpose...they seem to have a lot of items online and in their catalog...I just window shop right now...well I have purchased a few things in the hopes of soon being a member if the CF  ;D

 

[bgc_fan]

As a bit of a tangent. When I was in Gagetown for an ex a couple of weeks ago, one of the guys in the squadron came around taking glove sizes using a Hatch glove. Is there any word of another glove being issued by the CF?