New CF Fitness Policies Coming

[mgreer]

Actually I'm perplexed at why the leader of our Armed Forces would announce to the world that an incredible 9000 CF personal cannot pass a fitness test of a sprint and 19 push ups & sit ups for males 35 & under.  I won't even comment on the standard for females. The current lax and lenient fitness test is embarrassing and obviously tailored to ensure a certain level of personnel can obtain it.  Yet, we have 9000 troops, sailors and air personnel that cannot.  I'll assume that a high number of those are our diligent leaders in Ottawa.  Yes, the ones you see televised on Remembrance Day, with their guts out so far they can't see their feet.  Including several Chief's that I personally knew!

The other question is the labelling of fitness testing?  Why are we using a common civilian term?  Why is it not called physical endurance testing, or something along that line?  Even more laudable is the statement in the news article, "This year's round of testing should be completed by spring, and fitness classes will be offered to those who don't pass."  Fitness classes!!  Give me a break.  We're talking about our Canadian Forces here, and the General is saying those who can't pass the test will be "offered" fitness classes!  What the hell ever happened to remedial physical training for crying out loud..  It's beginning to sound more like a Wal-Mart employee moral building seminar.  "Offered" fitness classes!  And this for the world to see!

Michael

 

[Quiet Riot]

A pretty good article appeared in the National post about this. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=3f723083-25d6-4af3-9d15-f57536531ebd&k=71293&p=2

Drop and give me, er, 19
Canadian Forces getting serious about physical fitness   Font: * * * *  Simon Cheung, National Post
Published: Saturday, January 07, 2006
The Canadian Forces' Chief of Defence Staff has let his personnel know that he's serious about keeping them in shape.
General Rick Hillier wrote in an internal directive that those who fail the military's annual fitness tests will not receive promotions and may be required to seek "career administrative measures."
"This is not about fitness training," he wrote. "It is about helping to set the conditions for success in operations."
Karol Wenek, the director of military employment policy for the Canadian Forces, said increased operational duties over the past 10 years or so have made physical fitness vital, not only for soldiers but non-combat personnel as well."You might go in for humanitarian activity," he said, "[but also] find yourself using force to defend people or yourself."

Gen. Hillier's directive calls for all personnel to be tested by April.
Those who do not pass the test will attend a supervised 12-week remedial training program each time they fail. After the fourth failure, they will be subject to an administrative review and could possibly be released from duty.

At the end of the article it provides the fitness standards for the British and US army.

 

[ZipperHead]

North Star: brilliant post. I wish I would have taken the time to sit back and watch and shoot before posting, but that isn't my way. The difference between a Sr NCO and an officer I guess 

I think your ideas are the most "do-able" and balanced so far (compared to the "kick all the fatties" out hard-line I take, but that's just me being me). Your fitness/prevention advice was covered by a bunch of us in different threads, but it certainly is welcome here, as believe it or not, not everybody reads every thread on this forum (my brain can accept only so much before I forget basic motor skills). I am a big fan of the education/prevention/train-smarter-not-harder attitude. In Cornwallis we had an officer (physio maybe, or MO.... not sure, just remember she was pretty cute  ;D ) held up the issue Bata grey/green running shoe and said (or words to this effect): "This is a piece of junk. Buy something like this [holding up a Nike running show]" Of course the majority of us had them in civvy lock-up, but unless you had the chit (which 99% of us were too scared/stupid to get) you wore the "cripplers". And so it goes with the Mk III's (covered in depth in other posts, so I won't rant here). It's amazing how a little money (towards modifying with insoles or cushioned soles) would go a LOOOONNNNNGGGGG way to preventing the injuries that occur. Personally, I'm willing to spend my own money rather than jump through the hoops (though I have) to get the stuff that will save my body aches and pains. The Army stops looking after you after retirement, but you have to live with your body long (hopefully) after that.

Not that we need more badges, tabs, medals, bars than our Boy Scout/Cadet uniforms already have, but some form of recognition (other than the Aerobic Excellence award) would be a nice motivator to get people to exceed the standards. Something along the lines of Base Commander authorized time off for getting over level 3 across the board in the AFS PT tests (or level 4 to make it more "l33t" (you young 'uns will understand that - for the non-MSN speak types, that is Geek for "elite".). No, not time off for completing the BFT, which it seems most units do by default now, to give people time to "recover" after the strenuous (sarcasm in full effect) event. And if it's the same guys/gals always getting the time off, well done them. There should be SOME reward for exceeding the standards and staying fit.

Actually I'm perplexed at why the leader of our Armed Forces would announce to the world that an incredible 9000 CF personal cannot pass a fitness test of a sprint and 19 push ups & sit ups for males 35 & under.

I'm actually glad he did that, as it was like airing our dirty laundry to the public. Open the curtains, let the sunlight in, and watch the cockroaches (try to) scatter. Pretending that there isn't a problem is a problem. I think the gauntlet has been thrown down, CO's put on "warning" that he is "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore" (not his quote, but I'm guessing it could be appropriate), and that it's time to shape up or ship out. It would be interesting to see a CO fired over his/her unit's poor PT standing. That would cause the offices to be empty for 90 minutes per day, come hell or high water.

Al

 

[orange.paint]

back in petawawa....what a way to start a post.

  Anyway we had people put on verbal/written warning for physical fitness.They went to their own "special" pt everymorning with psp.While they did slightly improve they still were no better at end state.My question is if they are on this special pt for 12 weeks does this mean they would be exempt field work?I know here in gagetown I usually leave at around 5h30 to make it to work if I'm in the field or I stay in petersville.So where would they schedule in this "fat camp"? Does this mean back at the regiments they wouldn't go on exercise? I personally like the field,but to some this would be a reward.

  I believe if its going to take place during normal pt hours it isn't going to help the member in the long run.Basically all I see happening then is the fat will get easy pt every morning.This would also be a team building morale thing when you take fatties away from the team. Hopefully this extra 12 weeks include after supper pt and Saturday mornings.

  Enough fat talk for now off to the gym.

 

[mgreer]

I'm actually glad he did that, as it was like airing our dirty laundry to the public. Open the curtains, let the sunlight in, and watch the cockroaches (try to) scatter. Pretending that there isn't a problem is a problem. I think the gauntlet has been thrown down, CO's put on "warning" that he is "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore" (not his quote, but I'm guessing it could be appropriate), and that it's time to shape up or ship out. It would be interesting to see a CO fired over his/her unit's poor PT standing. That would cause the offices to be empty for 90 minutes per day, come hell or high water.

Al

Personally, that's part of today's problem.  Having to air our dirty laundry to get something done, IE; SCONDVA.  Shows the sad state, in whereas we're not only unable to resolve our own problems internally, but also the fact that is gotten to this point....

Michael

 

[Patrolman]

BernDawg,
              I am aware of the BMI testing that used to take place in the past. I am in no way a supporter of that method of determining physical fitness. I know plenty of fat guys who can run like the wind and plenty of skinny guys who couldn't run if their lives depended on it. Therefore making this test irrevelant in regards to fitness.
  A person who obese and fails the BMI test is completly differen't from someone who carries a lot of muscle on their frame and fails the BMI test.Releasing someone based on BMI tests and not on physical fitness results would be wrong. Releasing someone who fails fitness tests consistantly should most definately be released from service.
The Canadian military should have no place for people who are incapable of passing the tests set forth by CF. That is my opinion and many may not share it,however I believe the new generation of soldiers share in my thoughts and look forward to the changes being implemented!

 

[ZipperHead]

I don't welcome a return to the BMI witch-hunt days either. The thing to remember though, if I recall correctly, is that BMI is only one indicator of your overall health and fitness. It isn't magic, because of all the varying body-types (mesomorphs, endomorphs, ectomorphs), and the fact that muscle weighs more than fat doesn't help.

I remember seeing some pathetically unfit types in the ideal/normal range (link for BMI calc: http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/), and some beefy but fit lads considered obese because of muscle and bone versus fat. They would do the good ol' skin caliper test if you were over the 25 (IIRC), and would do the weighing in water in extreme cases (the only case I heard this done in was a SAR Tech human-ape dude who could bench-press cars who was in the 30 range. Could be army urban legend, but I'm pretty sure any serious gym rat could get over 30 pretty easily).

I think the BMI is a good tool to assist (in determining health/fitness), but there isn't any point in putting great stock in it.

Al

 

[scaddie]

I've read through all these posts, and there are many great suggestions and ideas, but what exactly are they going to test us with? The express test? That would be absolutley ridiculous. Has anybody been tested yet?

 

[buzgo]

The only people getting tested are the ones who haven't done it this FY. If people are exempt due to superior score last year, or have done it or are medically excused, then no testing.

The EXPRES test is a good test, many other organizations use it. The problem is that people settle for the minimum and haven't got the willpower or pride to try and excel. That is why the CDS said

THIS IS NOT ABOUT FITNESS TESTING, IT IS ABOUT HELPING TO SET THE CONDITIONS FOR SUCCESS IN OPERATIONS

. He is trying to create a 'fitness culture' within the CF as a whole. This is something that unfortunately until now has been very lmiited. Hopefully now PSP will get the FUNDING and SUPPORT needed to enable us to make the changes that we need to make. Maybe we will now take this on in an educated and progessive way, as many of the earlier posters have pointed out.

 

[scaddie]

Alright, thanks. That makes sense.

 

[BernDawg]

Patrolman:
  Me-thinks you have misunderstood me.  I agree with you.  I was just making a conversation point about the old way and the results.  My earlier rant on the thread is pretty clear I think.

Cheers

Dawg

 

[Patrolman]

BernDawg,
        I didn't misunderstand you I just wanted to respond to your last post and at the same time let others know about my feelings towards BMI testing. I had read your previous post(rant) and feel we are on the same page on the new policies as well as the old.
  I guess it all boils down to self respect on this issue. Unfortunately the CF has percentage of people who just don't seem to have any at all. That is unfortunate because it affects us all. Again I welcome the policies and can't wait to see them begin to work. I am glad we now have a CDS who is soldier rather than a politician unlike the previos yes men.

 

[BernDawg]

SEEN!! ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think the BMI is a good tool to assist (in determining health/fitness), but there isn't any point in putting great stock in it.

Al

Allan,

We've been over this a couple of times before. The BMI is a farce. It was developed by the Insurance industry hacks, and has no medical basis in fact. It is a system designed to increase premiums. That's it. It cannot, and should not, be used in any capacity whatsoever, for a fitness standard. If anyone doubts the verasity of my statement, Google it down to it's roots.

 

[Acorn]

No, not time off for completing the BFT, which it seems most units do by default now, to give people time to "recover" after the strenuous (sarcasm in full effect) event.

Time off? Last time I did it we didn't even get the rest of the day off. Not that I'm complaining.

Acorn

 

[WogCpl]

Hey Allan, thanks for the BMI calculator post!!
Scored a 30.3 whoo hooo!!
It says I am obese 
It is a crock of s**t!

 

[pbi]

Actually the Chief is following some pretty well-established paths in dealing with the media; paths that have been discovered the hard way (ie: by doing the opposite until it hurt). Announcing bad or embarassing facts first, thereby "scooping" the media is  an extension of the military principle of seizing the initiative, and is a whole hell of a lot better than trying to respond/evade/invent as we saw too often years ago. It isn't pretty, but it's probably a lot less painful in the long run.

Secondly, although he is by nature a very straightforward, blunt speaker (I had the pleasure of hearing him speak recently here at CFC), he knows that when you speak to a civilian audience, you use terms that they can easily understand. Now, this sometimes sticks in the craw with us uniformed types as we cringe at some of the "translations", but it is more effective than the bad habit it is intended to correct: littering our speech with acronyms and "militar-isms" that no civvy can grasp.

I'm embarassed, too. But, you know who the real embarassments are? Not the Chief and his announcement: but the people who stumble around in public in this country's uniform looking like slobs, completely undermining credibility, and dragging down those of us who believe that fitness and a sharp, proud appearance are basic elements of service in a professional military.

The most important point is not that anybody is getting embarassed, but that the Chief is acting publicly and demanding a standard, as minimal as that may be.

Cheers

 

[ZipperHead]

Allan,

We've been over this a couple of times before. The BMI is a farce. It was developed by the Insurance industry hacks, and has no medical basis in fact. It is a system designed to increase premiums. That's it. It cannot, and should not, be used in any capacity whatsoever, for a fitness standard. If anyone doubts the verasity of my statement, Google it down to it's roots.

I suppose that I am going to have to accept that I was a bit too enthusiastic in endorsing the BMI and eat my words (they are low calorie, so shouldn't take too much to burn them off  ;D ).

I think what I meant by "good tool" is that it something to use as a benchmark, even if it is flawed, much in the same way as using a scale to benchmark weight gain/lost. Many proponents of fitness advocate throwing away your scale, or better yet giving it to your worst enemy. The allure/danger of scales (or the BMI scale for that matter) is they give visual/numerical feedback on progress. The problem being is people weigh themselves 15 times a day, get discouraged and say screw it. Or they see that they lost 10 lbs on the Atkins diet (which I don't advocate, but use by way of example) and say it is the best thing since sliced bread (errr, no sliced bread on the Atkin's diet....).

I think the point that this is not about PT testing but about fitness is something that I have lost focus on, and many others I suspect. It is the very thing that I hate in the military when teaching soldiers: teaching to meet the PC standards, and nothing more. Man, if anything is a contender for my Top Pet Peeve of all time, that is it. Yes, you have to ensure people will meet the standard, but you should definitely ensure that they are going for the Gold standard, not the Participaction pin (might go over the head of some of the youngsters, but I suppose that is another inherent problem in today's society ..... lack of emphasis on fitness in the youth of Canada).

Al

 

[Garry]

I was in when BMI was instituted. Everyone I knew was in the danger zone (above 25 BMI) and most (me included) were at, or over 27. I was at 27 (considered well above weight).

That was the summer I went a little nuts, and was running app 20 miles per day. I was on my 6A course, and had the time. I also hit the weight room pretty hard....I felt I was fit. I'll never forget Lester waling down the MIR hall in his underwear and bursting into the MO's office (something M/Cpls didn't do !!) and saying to the MO "They say I have to lose 100 pounds- where are they going to take it from?? (yes, he had a belly, but he could alos bench press a volkswagon

BMI didn't work. Neither did the express test. I got hauled in once because I refused to do more than the minumum number of reps to pass. CO acused me of being unfit. My response was "it's a test, I passed-...and I choose not to work harder than I needed to to pass- care to go for a run, or hit the weight room with me Sir?"...Thank God for unit PT- he then remembered working out with me, and declined my offer. The matter was dropped.

I really liked the "old days" of the 1.5 mile run, 2 x 10 (miles) with the man carry, obstacle course, and range at the end. (remember, the idea wasn't just to complete the run, but to arrive fit to fight). No cheating there- you were either fit to fight or you weren't. You also were able to work through pain, or you didn't make it.

PC works just fine until the bayonets are fixed. The Military has no room for those who cannot defend their country.

Attaboy Rick!!!

 

[ZipperHead]

I really liked the "old days" of the 1.5 mile run, 2 x 10 (miles) with the man carry, obstacle course, and range at the end. (remember, the idea wasn't just to complete the run, but to arrive fit to fight). No cheating there- you were either fit to fight or you weren't. You also were able to work through pain, or you didn't make it.

It's kind of funny that you mention this, as I was researching some stuff ref PT, and I found some info on why the 1.5 mile run was removed from the PT tests. I can't find the link at the moment, but if I recall, it mentioned that it was (removed) because of injuries. From running 1.5 miles (2.4km). The humanity.....

BTW, Garry, I am in full agreement with you on your quote: it seems that people have come to find discomfort (not true pain, which in my mind is a broken femur, or testicles in a vice) from a march ("Oh my footsies are tender and my back hurts!!!!") is enough to throw in the towel, and get a Light Duties chit for 2 weeks. Yeah, that'll work after an advance to contact on the 2 way range.

Al