Naval Reserve Issues

[geo]

Pendant.... if you or your mate really & truly feels that they are being dicked around and shortchanged on the pay side of the house.... file a grievance.  A whole lot of continuing class B route letters for the same job is just the same as one really long one & should be treated the same way.

It might bet turned down at the 1st level.... but will land in the CDS' shop on the 2nd - at this point, what do you have to lose ?

 

[Stoker]

When I heard her say that in December, I thought "ok, a given ship might only sail 130 days, but given manning issues, I'd bet the average sailor will be spending much more time at sea than that, just on a different ship".

When I said the Commodore it was the Marlant Commodore not Navres that stated that. 130 days don't seem like much, but when you count in foregin ports etc, it adds up. As it stands there are two ships stood down each coast and that has helped the manning shortage quite a bit, but is a stop gap measure and more permanent solutions are needed.

 

[Stoker]

Pendant.... if you or your mate really & truly feels that they are being dicked around and shortchanged on the pay side of the house.... file a grievance.  A whole lot of continuing class B route letters for the same job is just the same as one really long one & should be treated the same way.

It might bet turned down at the 1st level.... but will land in the CDS' shop on the 2nd - at this point, what do you have to lose ?

As far as I know nobody is getting "dicked around" when it comes to contracts. There are a certain amount of "core crew" billets that are class C, the rest are Class B OJT. There are always people who are completing for these billets and usually they are given to people who finish the OJT on time or early or have stated a desire to put in several years on contract. Right now there isn't any money for OJT and that's because of the War. There is indeed talk that everyone posted to a MCDV will get Class C, but as far as I can tell that's only talk.
As for the case of the person getting posted for 1 year less 3 weeks intentionally to prevent that person from getting his/her PLD, well I call BS on that.

 

[geo]

As for the case of the person getting posted for 1 year less 3 weeks intentionally to prevent that person from getting his/her PLD, well I call BS on that.

Like I said, if the fella(s) feel they are being messed with, it is their right & priviledge to submit grievances (individual - not collective) and they will be given a fair hearing..... It isn't all that long ago that reservists weren't allowed travel assistance - till a grievance was handled by the CDS and a CANFORGEN fixed that one... retro to 2003

 

[Stoker]

Like I said, if the fella(s) feel they are being messed with, it is their right & privilege to submit grievances (individual - not collective) and they will be given a fair hearing..... It isn't all that long ago that reservists weren't allowed travel assistance - till a grievance was handled by the CDS and a CANFORGEN fixed that one... retro to 2003

Yes by all means, if they have a beef that's why the grievance process was put in place.

 

[DONT_PANIC]

When I said the Commodore it was the Marlant Commodore not Navres that stated that. 130 days don't seem like much, but when you count in foregin ports etc, it adds up. As it stands there are two ships stood down each coast and that has helped the manning shortage quite a bit, but is a stop gap measure and more permanent solutions are needed.

I guess everyone seems to be on the same page then, as this was what was relayed to us during a "fireside chat" with the navres commodore/formation chief.

 

[Cronicbny]

Yes, NAVRES needs to manage people more effectively. Yes, we should all be on Class C TOS (full timers - that is). Sailing 130 days a year? I consider that "old hat (with the benefit of 50 more days alongside)" so I'm not too worried.

The manning situation has no easy fixes, our bleed through CT also has no easy fixes. EVERYONE I talk to really considers "pierhead" jumping the problem. The point was made that HMCS XXXX will sail for 130 days, but OS/AB/LS/MS/PO2/SLT/LT(N) Bloggins will be sent from unit to unit and he/she will sail for XXX days.

Our main problem is attraction. We can't recruit enough people. Full stop. Why? No idea.

Are we losing people to CT's? Of course we are, but we have been losing people in the past - the manning shortage (fleet wide) is a big problem, and, quite frankly, there is nothing the "reserves" can do about it. Two ships in Extended or Reduced readiness is already the past. We now have (West Coast) two ships basically out of routine, two ships restricted to 12/5 ops and 2 that are really 24/7 - kinda (every department is short, and many people are double hatted - NAVO/DECKO as one example).

I wish I had an answer to the problem, but I'm not convinced that "sailing days" are really the issue amongst the great majority of our CT or release candidates.  Job satisfaction is a major problem, and my ideas to fix that would take up two threads alone (I have mentioned some ideas in past posts).

The first (and yet undone) step is admitting that we cannot, under current circumstances, fulfill our role as primary manning for the KIN class. Shut down all of the boats and people will still leave. Personally, my ship is alongside for ISSC... I am sailing in ORCA for a MARS IV as the A/NAVO. I don't mind - the work is challenging and that is what I signed up for.  Fully half a dozen members of my crew are off to ORCA or other KIN class ships in various capacities to support this MARS IV - and they all volunteered.

I really do believe that if people had unfettered access to Class C (read: RegF) benefits (including PLD) they wouldn't leave in as many numbers as we are seeing now. People who think the job sucks in MCDV land will think the job sucks in K-Mart - they aren't our concern... the people we need to focus on are those who generally like the job but are sick and tired of the aforementioned (prev posts) Class B, short contract, no benefits BS.

All recorded IMHO as usual

If we simply treat our people well, give them a sailing plan in advance, and compensate them equally to all members in the ship, I think we would solve at least half our manning problems... and when you're talking about 25+ Component transfers a year on the jetty for the last five years... it is the difference we MUST make.

 

[whitehorse]

Cronicbny:

A useful post but in your analysis you managed to completely ignore the issues facing about 50% of the NR, namely the part-timers. I personally have been involved in recruiting at the NRD and I can tell you that I personally left the NRD and the NR for the simple reason that I could see no gain either corporately or personally in supporting an organization and contributing my own time that by and large was completely obsessed with the issues facing the full time folks.

I have personally have had my PER file 'lost', ignored or in at least one case deliberately misrepresented at the merit boards so that full time folks could be promoted. As a result there is one less 'recruiter' out there in the community, selling the navy. I am not alone. The simple reality is that there are fewer and fewer part-time reservists willing to invest time in the NR and in particular 'sell' it to their friends and neighbours as a good investment of time and effort. The result? Dwindling part-time reservists involved in their NRD, dwindling recruiting and more attrition. For confirmation you only need to look at the numbers of part time sailors in CO, XO, or Cox'n billets in their respective NRDs the numbers are small and shrinking. I suspect that the attrition rate has also increased.

While their full-time counter parts do their best the by and large simply don't have the contacts to be as effective as recruiters.

The recruiting types will tell you that we are getting the numbers but the attrition is probably at an all time high for the simple reason that people joining what is sold as a 'part-time' organization soon find out that unless they give up on their education or civilian careers they effectively have no future in the NR. The result they leave or alternatively join the regular force.

Taken in conjunction with the valid points you raise we have an organization that is increasingly unable to meet its basic commitments. It is possible that with the recession looming on the horizon we may be able to temporarily delay the inevitable. However, as long as we recruit people on the basis that they are joining the 'reserves' (which is supposed to be about part-time citizen sailors) and then let them find out that it is really a cheap and nasty version of the regular force we will continue to have manning issues both at sea and ashore.

 

[Cronicbny]

Whitehorse:

I agree that I focus on the full timer issues - I can't claim to speak to the part time world, and didn't want to delve into it for lack of corporate knowledge in that area. Your post does raise some pretty important issues (especially the merit board aspect, which I find particularly interesting, and disappointing).

No doubt the entire organizational structure needs to be reviewed, but I am reluctant to offer solutions without knowing more about the Class "A" world, to which I haven't been a part of since 2001.

 

[Stoker]

Whitehorse, as it was reminded to me by a senior naval reserve chief, we were all once Class A reservists at some point in time. I agree that sometimes the focus seems to be only on the "full time" people and that needs to change. As for the merit board point I see where you're coming from, however from the opposite point of view where Class A people are getting promotions over the "full time" people. Personally I think a separate merit board for the full times and part timers should be implemented. As for the Coxn's, XO's and CO's at units being filled with full time people, I know some large units probally benefit from a full time presence vs someone who comes in several nights a week.
As for recruiting people on the basis of joining the "reserves" and them finding out they really joined the res version of the reg force, well the recruiters should be more clear that we have a part time and full time reserve and the benefits and drawbacks of both. We have lots of kids who are on Class A most of the year and come out during the summer. These people still go to school, have civilian careers and don't have to give it up and still have a future in the Naval Reserve.

 

[whitehorse]

Cronicbny/Stoker

The real issue here is that the current model is not sustainable and is not meeting the goals of the navy. Moreover what happens in the event of a crisis requiring significant additional naval personnel? Hell we don't even have enough people to man the ships we have now (reg f or reserve). The pretense that somehow this model is working is slowly corroding away the part-time sailors that we may need to meet the crisis, and in the meantime do most of the recruiting for the navy as a whole.

When Admiral Hose invented the NR in 1923 he wasn't trying to invent a "minnie-me" version of the regular navy. He realized that we need to have a naval presence in every major city in the country as well as a pool of trained sailors when the next crisis came. We need to go back to the idea that the NR is about part-time folks available in a crisis and who do the bulk of recruiting for the navy.

The full time element should simply be transferred to the Reg F (with the same terms and conditions, but eliminating Class B pay).

Separate merit boards, sure, but we need to start by no longer pretending that a full time reservist working 5, 10 or 20 years full-time is a reservist.