Muslim policewoman refuses to shake chief's hand

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Belce. I have to agree with my comrades here. You've come wading in passing judgement and that isn't a good way to start. They are stating their opinions and you are stating yours. that's the way dialogue takes place. We don't have any PC police here so let's not start playing those cards...most of us are fed up with that kind of debate in our society at large....i.e. declaring whole areas out of bounds due to a social engineering agenda. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You have a right to an opinion.  Also part of that is that your opinion could be wrong.  "Its my opinion!" is not a valid defence against reason, it is a very poor argument.  The opinions expressed against someone whose faith does not allow something is something we respect. 

I did not think that my conservative thinking regarding individual rights would draw a suggestion I go elsewhere.  A person has the right to have their religion respected.  This isn't someone that grew up in Britian and can't speak English, its someone that wants to be in.

There are always wrong opinions, you just have a right to be wrong, like now.

So anyone can have an opinion......................as long as it's your's? It's not your place to decide who's right and wrong, because you don't agree. You may find here, that sticking to that line of reasoning, is like pushing a wet noodle uphill.

 

[1feral1]

EDIT: You know, I really was not going to comment on this, but I think I'll take a nibble to set things straight.

Belce is just going to accuse us all of being rightwing racist rednecks. We've all seen his type come and go on here, so no skin off my arse.

At the end of the day, regarding to one's religion and beliefs, well repect is a two way street, and when one's way of life with a 13th century mentality, where laws condone stoning of women, and the right to place a child's arm under a SUV for theft, well that outragous. Now we find ourselves victims from this behaviour from 'over there' and its now starting to be interfering with our own customs and traditions. Sorry Belce, thats where I draw the line.

Our countries our ours, not some satellite outpost of theirs, but sadly, thats what our countries have become. You won't find this in BF Saskatchewan, but in the larger urban centres in any large western city. So now our society has to deal with their unwanted baggage full of their centuries old hatred for others thye have hated, and their heartless criminal way of life brought to our shores.

I base my opinions on life experiences from myself and people I know, not text books or media sources. I was sheltered in Saskatchewan (its a great place to live), lead a pretty decent life where foreigners were tourists or  assylum seekers were sponsered by a church, waited til they got their shyte together, and headed for, yes a large urban centre, away from the cold and to ghettos created by others from whence they came.

I bet he (Belce) has never had his girlfriend spat at because she wore a bikini on a beach in his own neighbourhood, or a group of had race riots where islamc youth gathered at a mosque, headed to the south of sydney areas in convoys of over 300 vehicles, smashed cars at random (Maroubra Sydney) attacked people in their homes (Wolloware and Caringbah, Sydney) and stabbed people of WASP Australian appearance in a quiet neighbourhood. Where terrified elderly people were attacked because they were not muslims.

Its a pretty sad state of affairs when people party in streets in your own city after 3000 people were murdered (this included Canadians and Australians plus others) on 11 Sep 01, and local so called 'Australian' islamic clerics still publically currently denounce the holacaust, call white Australians liars, and stake claim that muslims have more of a right to live in Australia then anyone else (Skeik Alhilaly of Lakemba Mosque Sydney).

Where did these riots take place? Think I am pulling your chain? Cronulla Sydney, NSW Australia, 04-06 Dec 2005. Google Cronulla riots if you wanna know more.

Winnipeg (BTW I love the place) is also a sheltered city from the realities of routine ethinic violence and God forbid, ethic cleansing. Better we're here on his shores, stirring the shyte, sorting things out then on our own.

I've lived in places where the Australian flag had to be removed because it offfened muslims, and was causing unrest in the nieghbourhood. That request came from the NSW Police, who told a home owner to do so, because he feared for their safety. That was in Sydney Australia, not here in Shyteland (Iraq). The "offended" people were youth from an islamic backgorund. Its a pretty sad state of affairs when you are asked to take down your own country's flag in your own country, because others are threatening violence if you don't.

Well Belce, you make up your own decision on that, and keep your head burried in the sand! At the ripe ole age of 43 with all that Cadet experience to back you up, you'll be safe in your own private PC world.

Nibble over.


Wes

 

[zipperhead_cop]

There are always wrong opinions, you just have a right to be wrong, like now.

Belce, you are out of line.  Pretty much everyone here is very in tune with religious freedoms and has no issue with anyones choice of worship.  Where the annoyance comes in is when you get these people (of all denominations, not just this one) who pick and choose which laws they will adhere to.  You even said it yourself, there is no way she was able to get through her training without touching a man at some point.  And even if they made special accommodations during training, it will be impossible to accommodate on the street.  Unless she is planning on only arresting women, and then that makes her a poor officer who isn't doing her job.  But if we accept that she did have male contact in training, why couldn't she shake her Chiefs hand?  All of a sudden her lofty principles kick in and she is too pure now?  I call bullshit.  She could have if she wanted to.  And as pointed out, if you are going to be SO religious that some of the pickier points are going to be followed, then follow all of them.  Whatever allowed her to ignore the concepts of not being educated, not being a housewife and having a job should have her able to shake hands with someone.  Hell, she could have gotten permission from her mosque, worn gloves, prayed for forgiveness after.  But instead, she played the religion card and alienated her entire Department before she has even worked her first shift.  A big part of being a police officer is being able to serve the needs of your community.  She doesn't get to pick which subsection that she wants to help.  I personally find smoking a filthy and disgusting habit and would never allow it in my home.  But I still have to go into smokers houses, try to conduct an investigation through the blue smoke and smell it on my uniform for the rest of my shift.  An officer has a job to do on the street, and religion has nothing to do with it.  She is going to get herself (or worse, her partner) killed. 
No one is going to want to work a car with her.  All she has to look forward to is grief and peoples backs.  If she is lucky, some of the other Islamic members of the Metro will pull her aside and sort her out.  THEN she can go to the Chiefs office, apologize for being such a tool, and shake his hand like she should have in the first place. 

 

[1feral1]

On shaking a muslim woman's hand. This can be done as long as she first puts her hand out, and then her hand is shaken lightly touching her fingertips only.

Thats right from the book, and something I have practised on occasion here, in their world, so it can be done.

From the USMC Guide for Communication and Culture MCIA 263Q 003-04.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[GO!!!]

You have a right to an opinion.  Also part of that is that your opinion could be wrong.  "Its my opinion!" is not a valid defence against reason, it is a very poor argument.  The opinions expressed against someone whose faith does not allow something is something we respect. 

Depending on which branch of islam she adheres to, her faith demands a whole series of restrictions that prohibit her from even having a job outside the home. These "requirements" are routinely dismissed my imams and mullahs of this century, who recognise them for what they are, reasonable when viewed in the context of their time (600 years ago).

As zipperhead said, if she was really that devout a muslim, she should do it all the way - a female circumcision, arranged marriage to a polygamist when she was 12-14, a full burkha, complete isolation within her home, and a life of servile deference to her husband. Instead she chose to pick which aspects of the faith she adhered to, to be as public and visible as possible.

I did not think that my conservative thinking regarding individual rights would draw a suggestion I go elsewhere.  A person has the right to have their religion respected.  This isn't someone that grew up in Britian and can't speak English, its someone that wants to be in.

Mastery of language and understanding of culture are not synonymous. I think that this woman has an excellent understanding of British culture and politics though, which is why she orchestrated this the way she did.

There are always wrong opinions, you just have a right to be wrong, like now.

That is the difference between soldiers, police and the other uniformed services, and people (like you) who have lived under the umbrella of protection that these services provide their entire lives. The difference is that decisions made in my world have very real and lasting impacts on a number of fronts, from my life, to someone elses. Yours don't. You don't make life or death decisions, and as such, can afford to have a counter-logical opinion, as it holds no consequence for you either way.

I see it differently. The uniformed services are based not just on uniformity of appearance, but on uniformity of action. These actions are not optional, or up to the individual to ascertain a need for, they are guaranteed responses, applied under a strict set of rules and regulations. When one person in the uniformed service believes themselves above or exempt from these sets of rules, there is really no point having them, because the uniformity of response no longer exists.

Think now, could a criminal expect a different response from this constable? I think so! Will she only search females for weapons or drugs? Only restrain women from violently assaulting another? Will she converse with her partner without her brother or father present? The fact that we have to ask these questions should be unsettling enough.

She knew the rules and what was expected of her when she applied to become a police officer - she is using her faith to make a statement.

 

[Neill McKay]

Shaking hands is our cultural element to this ceremony and a minor bit at that.  Would we be having this talk if a Jew, Shikh, Hindu or aethiest refused to swear on the Bible?

There's a big difference here: shaking hands is not a religious practice -- it's the practice of all sorts of people, religious or not, throughout the Western world.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

And thats what she's probably trying to accomplish. Reality will catch up with her eventually and she'll either have to loose her 'religious convictions' or loose her or her partner's life.

Yeah, when she is alone on straight midnights doing foot patrol in the dock district, she might want to try to cultivate some better relationships. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Yeah, when she is alone on straight midnights doing foot patrol in the dock district, she might want to try to cultivate some better relationships. 

Do you seriosly think she'll ever draw that shift?

 

[TCBF]

Not now...

 

[Shamrock]

From the BBC:

The woman, who wore a uniform hijab, also refused to be pictured with Sir Ian at the event on 21 December as she did not want a photo used for "propaganda purposes", the paper said.

 

[Thompson_JM]

From the BBC:

The woman, who wore a uniform hijab, also refused to be pictured with Sir Ian at the event on 21 December as she did not want a photo used for "propaganda purposes", the paper said.

I was gonna say something, but it might have been deemed offensive.... so i'll sum that statement up with this one:

I can Smell the BS from here.....

obviously the services must be hurting for members if this useless heap made it through the filters......  I dont think she has any intention of accually serving her community, she just wants to rock the boat...... I say throw her off it.

 

[vonGarvin]

As a public service in the CF: if the man wants my photo posted, then my photo is posted (for whatever reason).  Don't like it?  Don't join!

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Do you seriosly think she'll ever draw that shift?

If I was the shift Staff Sergeant, hell yes.  She got her little moment in the sun.  She got to shame her Chief, refusing his handshake and suggesting that to be photographed beside him would be "propaganda".  She gets the first round.  But she is on probation, and a year can be a really long time. 

 

[Thompson_JM]

If I was the shift Staff Sergeant, hell yes.  She got her little moment in the sun.  She got to shame her Chief, refusing his handshake and suggesting that to be photographed beside him would be "propaganda".  She gets the first round.  But she is on probation, and a year can be a really long time. 

Win the Battle, Loose the War  ;D

 

[Kat Stevens]

How did she manage to interact with male recruiters, administrators, and instructors during her training?  Was she not required to speak to them?  How will she acknowledge understanding of direction given by a male superior in the field?  If tasked with riot control, can she be effective in an NBCBurkha?  Cool how The Yard is allowing her to choose which of the requirements of her religion to snub or embrace, as convenience dictates.  Load of old bollocks, put her in the canteen.

 

[niner domestic]

Kat: I see her being put in as a matron to the female lock up in the Old Bailey, a zebra crossing guard, point duty on Marble arch roundabout or the ladies loo keeper at the Arsenal game, maybe even pigeon spotting in Trafalgar Sq. 

 

[Kat Stevens]

No such luck, niner.  You know she'll get the plum assignments.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

No such luck, niner.  You know she'll get the plum assignments.

I'm not so sure.  If she had played the game, she would have had it made in the shade.  But this crap, this will have long lasting bitterness.  They probably would have a hard time firing her, but they can sure make it so she wants to quit. 
And what was this part about:

The Mail on Sunday said the Pc, described as a "non Asian Muslim", was among recruits who had competed 18 weeks of basic training.

Would that mean that she was not born Muslim, and is a convert?  I realize that there are lots of Muslims that are not Asian/Arab, but I wonder if that was the news agency's way of implying anything.  Like when you hear the phrase "was known to the police" it means "was a criminal POS". 

 

[old fart]

This new policewoman was trying to do one thing, and that was insult Sir Ian Blair.

The likely reason probably has much to do with the amount Islamist's that he and the police force he heads up he have stuck behind bars.  Many for a significant period or others while awaiting trail.

She used the lamest of excuses knowing that it would become a news item......She is undoubtedly a Wan_ker.

Old fart out.