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Pat in Halifax said:
And it is possible that this persons application might not be filled out correctly, he/she may have information missing etc etc.
More sailors needed for Canada's warships
- Thread starter GAP
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And it is possible that this persons application might not be filled out correctly, he/she may have information missing etc etc.
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Fair enough but if an applicant is missing info then ultimately whose responsibility is it to ensure all info is there. When I joined, I had no idea what was required exactly even though, I am sure, it was likely spelled out to me. I guess for me personally to see a comment like that it just bothers me given our shortages...across the board in many trades. These are not isolated cases and I have heard of CompTrans from Reserves taking months as well.
We have identified the issues, we have opportunity knocking and yet we cannot act. I know a couple Navy recruiters, regardless of 'missing' info could probably have people like that in by "Hands to supper"!
We have identified the issues, we have opportunity knocking and yet we cannot act. I know a couple Navy recruiters, regardless of 'missing' info could probably have people like that in by "Hands to supper"!
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Took me a bit to see who we were talking about - Korabian. 9 months is a long wait and there are some bona fide reasons why - but it IS frustrating.
Korabian, when was the last time you talked to the recruiting centre, and did they explain what was slowing down your application? Was it indeed something you needed to provide, or was it a verification by someone else they were waiting for? No need to explain the details, that is between you and them.
Depending on your answer, it might be time to give them a call.
Korabian, when was the last time you talked to the recruiting centre, and did they explain what was slowing down your application? Was it indeed something you needed to provide, or was it a verification by someone else they were waiting for? No need to explain the details, that is between you and them.
Depending on your answer, it might be time to give them a call.
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Thank you everyone for your interest and support. It is appreciated. 
As for the length of my application process, the part of it was medical - it took 3 months to collect all the additional paper work. But the major speed bump is the fact that I was born outside Canada and served in foreign military. I do call my local CFRC every 3-4 weeks for an update but they are still "checking things", as I am told.
I already had my interview and provided all the information requested of me, so I am almost at the end of the process. At this point I can only patiently wait . I hope that the call will come soon and I will be on my way.
I am really looking forward to joining the Navy.
Cheers
As for the length of my application process, the part of it was medical - it took 3 months to collect all the additional paper work. But the major speed bump is the fact that I was born outside Canada and served in foreign military. I do call my local CFRC every 3-4 weeks for an update but they are still "checking things", as I am told.
I already had my interview and provided all the information requested of me, so I am almost at the end of the process. At this point I can only patiently wait . I hope that the call will come soon and I will be on my way.
I am really looking forward to joining the Navy.
Cheers
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This explains a few things wrt unique circumstances and my apologies to any Recruiters who took offence - not my intent at all. Maybe there is some way to tie into other Governmental departments to streamline this process more?? The shortage has been there for a few years but now has the potential to cause 'operational adjustments' to be made. Our (meaning all of us in the military) response is, unfortunately, that typical knee-jerk reaction.
I truly do hope you can get processed soon and I look forward to the day we may serve alongside one another.
I truly do hope you can get processed soon and I look forward to the day we may serve alongside one another.
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This particular issue aside the recruiting centers have not always been as fast as one would like. I used to be the recruiting NCO for my unit and trying to get guys processed in a timely fashion was often next to near impossible. Medicals always seem to be the biggest pain. Ever since Afghanistan the med side of things have been extremely fussy about who they let in. The biggest problem there is if they see something they dont like, they refer you to a civy doc to get the item checked out, then you bring in the papers back to the recruiting center. However they dont action it themselves at this point, they forward it to Ottawa for adjudication which takes forever.
But even in cases where the medical is not an issue I have seen applications take up to a year for some guys to get in.
I will use my own CT as a different example. I went into CFRC Jan 08 and requested a CT to the reg force as MARS. 2 months from the time I submitted all my paperwork goes by and I hear nothing. So I go back in there to ask them what the status is and they say "oh, we dont process those anymore, they are now done online through DMCA" Ok fair enough, but why could someone not have called me to let me know that the system had changed since the time I dropped off my application. They did not have a good answer for that. Even the DMCA guys took forever to get their acts together on my file. In the meantime I had enough time to release to the sup res, re-enroll as a MARS officer in the reserves and start parading with my new unit. I did all of that just to eliminate the burden of booking PSO interviews and VOTs from the DMCA folks. Since I effectively did all the work myself in a roundabout sort of way I am a few weeks away from the CT offer, but I should not have had to do all that. A few other people I know did the same sort of thing.
Of course I have also seen other cases where the recruit it sworn in 2.5 months after dropping off all their paperwork so who knows...
But even in cases where the medical is not an issue I have seen applications take up to a year for some guys to get in.
I will use my own CT as a different example. I went into CFRC Jan 08 and requested a CT to the reg force as MARS. 2 months from the time I submitted all my paperwork goes by and I hear nothing. So I go back in there to ask them what the status is and they say "oh, we dont process those anymore, they are now done online through DMCA" Ok fair enough, but why could someone not have called me to let me know that the system had changed since the time I dropped off my application. They did not have a good answer for that. Even the DMCA guys took forever to get their acts together on my file. In the meantime I had enough time to release to the sup res, re-enroll as a MARS officer in the reserves and start parading with my new unit. I did all of that just to eliminate the burden of booking PSO interviews and VOTs from the DMCA folks. Since I effectively did all the work myself in a roundabout sort of way I am a few weeks away from the CT offer, but I should not have had to do all that. A few other people I know did the same sort of thing.
Of course I have also seen other cases where the recruit it sworn in 2.5 months after dropping off all their paperwork so who knows...
CountDC
Army.ca Veteran
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Maybe this has something to do with Navy retention and recruiting:
• Total 1759 naval personnel deployed, or 26% of trained effective strength.
have to wonder how many of them are on repeat tours - Navy likes to loan mbrs all over the place. Did one guys Sea Time calculation and he was posted to one ship, loaned to another and while loaned there was loaned out to anotehr ship.
• Total 1759 naval personnel deployed, or 26% of trained effective strength.
have to wonder how many of them are on repeat tours - Navy likes to loan mbrs all over the place. Did one guys Sea Time calculation and he was posted to one ship, loaned to another and while loaned there was loaned out to anotehr ship.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
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Personally I see allot of young sailors getting out for simple reasons. I think it shows a shift in mind set and it shows were not hiring the same people we did 20 years ago.
Unfortunately for some if we wish to keep the Navy alive and relevant than we need to look at some of the following:
- Manning (Is it better to do more with less or less with more?)
- Jobs at sea. I know were all sailors/soldiers/air people first but when it gets to the point that equipment isn’t being maintained because upper deck watches have taken precedence than we need to look at this more closely
- Parking. I know it sounds minor but tell that to the young OD who has to park in the ghetto everyday and risk having his/her car broken into. On top of that god forbid the said OD is human, is running behind and decides to park at the yard, because to get a spot within walking distance to the yard requires him/her to be at work for 0545, now he/she has to risk being towed by his/her employer just for showing up for work.
- The separation of the ranks. I know this bites allot of people in the lower decks and in the wardrooms defense I have been seeing man a young A/Slt and Slt agreeing that this needs to come to an end. I could elaborate on many examples of this because of my trade but I will refrain.
- The idea that you must sacrifice your home/social life for your ship is an antiquated and irrelevant idea these days. Whether we agree with it or not does not matter because the young folk just won’t put up with it. We (the Navy) change or we cease to exist, it’s our call.
- Promotion and Selection process. I will admit I don’t have anything better to offer than CFPAS off the top of my head, but I know there has to be a better way.
These are just a few I have seen in my 10+ years in the CF/Navy. Feel free to comment
Unfortunately for some if we wish to keep the Navy alive and relevant than we need to look at some of the following:
- Manning (Is it better to do more with less or less with more?)
- Jobs at sea. I know were all sailors/soldiers/air people first but when it gets to the point that equipment isn’t being maintained because upper deck watches have taken precedence than we need to look at this more closely
- Parking. I know it sounds minor but tell that to the young OD who has to park in the ghetto everyday and risk having his/her car broken into. On top of that god forbid the said OD is human, is running behind and decides to park at the yard, because to get a spot within walking distance to the yard requires him/her to be at work for 0545, now he/she has to risk being towed by his/her employer just for showing up for work.
- The separation of the ranks. I know this bites allot of people in the lower decks and in the wardrooms defense I have been seeing man a young A/Slt and Slt agreeing that this needs to come to an end. I could elaborate on many examples of this because of my trade but I will refrain.
- The idea that you must sacrifice your home/social life for your ship is an antiquated and irrelevant idea these days. Whether we agree with it or not does not matter because the young folk just won’t put up with it. We (the Navy) change or we cease to exist, it’s our call.
- Promotion and Selection process. I will admit I don’t have anything better to offer than CFPAS off the top of my head, but I know there has to be a better way.
These are just a few I have seen in my 10+ years in the CF/Navy. Feel free to comment
A
aesop081
Guest
Halifax Tar said:
If the CF rolled out a new system tomorow morning, you would hear the exact same complaints from the exact same people on Monday morning. That is exactly what happenned when CFPAS was rolled out.
Halifax Tar
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I don't really want to debate this one. If you read my post you will I have no answer I just think there has to be better
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Halifax Tar said:
If parking is that big of an issue, the sailor should consider switching coasts! >
(That's what I did, but I am in the minority who thinks Halifax is a dump, it had nothing to do with the parking)The main negative thing (which isn't that big of a deal) I have stuck in my head from my glorious Navy days is cleaning dried crap from the toilets. When you are having a bad watch, the thought of getting off watch only to head down to clean crusty crap from a toilet did NOTHING to improve my morale.
There are other things that come to mind, "Micro-Manage" is one of them.
Overall the navy is not a bad go, those sailors who are getting out would probably leave no matter what branch of the CF they are in. It's not just the Navy that is hurting for bodies.
A
aesop081
Guest
Halifax Tar said:
Fair enough.
Most people who complain about CFPAS have no answers either, just complaints. Every time a new system rolls around, they find the same faults. Theres always people lining up to complain about how the "better / improved /latest" is screwing them out of their much deserved promotion.
I'm not pointing a finger at you in any way.....just venting.
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I'm over 40 and as a result I probably have nothing intelligent to say here. My one claim to relevance is thirty some years of service in the navy including service when the navy was really struggling to survive in the late seventies and early eighties (i.e. before the CPFs, MCDVs and Trumps).
Strangely enough while we had real equipment issues, morale was in my humble opinion generally higher than it is now. I can only really attribute this to one cause and that was that at that time no one in charge (i.e. senior officer, CPOs etc) tried to sell the navy as just another job. It was always presented as a challenge which not everyone could do. Things like parking and duty watches including cleaning stations were actually considered relatively trivial, compared to say .... the idea of being combat ready. If you were a sailor you were something special and staying awake nights, dealing with dirty toilets etc etc were part of that 'otherness' that separated us from everyone else.
Forgive me if I sound a bit like a cranky old man but parking?!!! For pity sake the vast majority of civilians out there take a bus to work. In their world parking is for VPs or CEOs!!! Most who drive to work and park, pay for it.
Recruiting, Retention will never come about if we try portraying the navy as just another career choice. It is a difficult, challenging life unlike any other. It can and should demand sacrifices, otherwise we could contract it out to the lowest bidder.
You know there is one western style military organization that doesn't have recruiting issues despite the combat loss of thousands in the last few years. That institution is called the USMC and while I much prefer being a Canadian sailor I believe we can learn something behind the idea that what we do is special, and that it cannot be done by anyone.
What we do is hard, it has its highs (eg. foreign ports, drug interdictions, boardings, firefighting etc etc) it also has its lows (cleaning stations). If you want just another job, go get another job.
OK OK rant over, sorry but crikey....
Strangely enough while we had real equipment issues, morale was in my humble opinion generally higher than it is now. I can only really attribute this to one cause and that was that at that time no one in charge (i.e. senior officer, CPOs etc) tried to sell the navy as just another job. It was always presented as a challenge which not everyone could do. Things like parking and duty watches including cleaning stations were actually considered relatively trivial, compared to say .... the idea of being combat ready. If you were a sailor you were something special and staying awake nights, dealing with dirty toilets etc etc were part of that 'otherness' that separated us from everyone else.
Forgive me if I sound a bit like a cranky old man but parking?!!! For pity sake the vast majority of civilians out there take a bus to work. In their world parking is for VPs or CEOs!!! Most who drive to work and park, pay for it.
Recruiting, Retention will never come about if we try portraying the navy as just another career choice. It is a difficult, challenging life unlike any other. It can and should demand sacrifices, otherwise we could contract it out to the lowest bidder.
You know there is one western style military organization that doesn't have recruiting issues despite the combat loss of thousands in the last few years. That institution is called the USMC and while I much prefer being a Canadian sailor I believe we can learn something behind the idea that what we do is special, and that it cannot be done by anyone.
What we do is hard, it has its highs (eg. foreign ports, drug interdictions, boardings, firefighting etc etc) it also has its lows (cleaning stations). If you want just another job, go get another job.
OK OK rant over, sorry but crikey....
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Halifax Tar, I'm curious about your point on seperation of the ranks. I know i'm probably opening a can of worms here but did you have an ideal system in mind when you made this point, one that would help with the recruiting and retention of Canadian sailors?
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
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Whitehorse - You know I agree with you. Unfortunately times have changed and so the people have changed. We were getting a vastly different recruit 30 years ago even 20 years ago. If we want to stay relevant and competitive in getting good smart people in our environment then yes some things will have to change. We are meeting a fork in the road on this issue. I currently would like an American model, I.E. Lots of short times doing 3 - 5 year hitches and the military offering education plans after time served at the same time the military approaches those deemed suitable for additional hitches.
The USMC having worked with them and the other branches of the US military take very good care of there people with low low housing, real after service education plans and a whole host of support programs that our tiny military couldn't afford in the slightest. Have you ever seen how much of the DND budget goes to salaries alone... Its shocking. Not too mention the USMC has a mystique and bravado about it many in the US seek to be a part of.
We can keep going with the old RCN, RN based model we have and just alienate our selves even more quietly becoming more irrelevant in Joe Canadians eyes or we can start to change things for the young sailors and actually try to instill some pride in our Navy.
I would assume after 30 years in the Navy you are at least a senior rate or mid-senior officer, of course you have pride its what you've done for 30 years, chances are you wouldn't have stuck around if you didn't give a poop about the Navy right ? Well try seeing from the young ODs eyes now. Remember what it was like to be a OD or NCdt.
Snakedoc - I will PM you my reply because like you I think that discussion will only open a can of worms that would not be constructive lol I think we can both agree. Please stand by for my reply lol
The USMC having worked with them and the other branches of the US military take very good care of there people with low low housing, real after service education plans and a whole host of support programs that our tiny military couldn't afford in the slightest. Have you ever seen how much of the DND budget goes to salaries alone... Its shocking. Not too mention the USMC has a mystique and bravado about it many in the US seek to be a part of.
We can keep going with the old RCN, RN based model we have and just alienate our selves even more quietly becoming more irrelevant in Joe Canadians eyes or we can start to change things for the young sailors and actually try to instill some pride in our Navy.
I would assume after 30 years in the Navy you are at least a senior rate or mid-senior officer, of course you have pride its what you've done for 30 years, chances are you wouldn't have stuck around if you didn't give a poop about the Navy right ? Well try seeing from the young ODs eyes now. Remember what it was like to be a OD or NCdt.
Snakedoc - I will PM you my reply because like you I think that discussion will only open a can of worms that would not be constructive lol I think we can both agree. Please stand by for my reply lol
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This is a problem that many navies are facing. The Royal Australian Navy is struggling even harder than the Canadian Navy to man ships, they only have enough crews for half of their six Collins Class subs. Naval-Technology.com brought out an interesting article on this problem, you can read it here.
http://www.naval-technology.com/feature4406/?mxmroi=6149281/557427/false
http://www.naval-technology.com/feature4406/?mxmroi=6149281/557427/false
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cameron said:
I would not say they are struggling even harder cameron. I am not sure the last time you sailed cameron, but when your ship has to grab personnel from 3 to 5 other ships then that should tell you something.
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I think that one of the issues with getting enough people into the Navy is the high number of techs that are required, over 50% of the requirement. The education and aptitude requirements are higher than non-tech occupations, which means that fewer people qualify. There is intense competition for the people that have the education and aptitude for tech occupations, with the Air Force and the Army having requirements for high numbers of techs. There are actually a respectable number of people who want to join the Navy - its just that they don't have the desire or the education for the tech occupations.
Another factor that makes it more difficult to get people into the Navy is that most people are not aware of the occupations available, so they don't apply for Navy occupations.
Another factor is that the Navy has 2 main locations, one on either coast, while the majority of the population is in Ontario and Quebec, which means there is less knowledge of the Navy, as well as less interest, as there is little likelyhood of having a posting near to their home.
Another factor that makes it more difficult to get people into the Navy is that most people are not aware of the occupations available, so they don't apply for Navy occupations.
Another factor is that the Navy has 2 main locations, one on either coast, while the majority of the population is in Ontario and Quebec, which means there is less knowledge of the Navy, as well as less interest, as there is little likelyhood of having a posting near to their home.
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there is that and the problem of the tech courses themselves . If they could break them down to phases of less then or about 6 months it could help increase the amount of man power avalible to the ship. it wouldaslo help if a sailor hammers in on a phase , that he could redo it without having to do an entire serial or mark time to await the next course through. Another problem right now is the fact the CF is sending sailors in traditionally army jobs . ie Afghanistan which reduces the amount of readily avalible manpower also . if we look at a parade in DEU's how many sailors have goneto someplace that only 5 years ago it would of been unthought of . i can understand the divers filling in on EOD as they have the same skill sets but now we have how many trades going over to there because they need a person.
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