More sailors needed for Canada's warships

[Snakedoc]

Hey Stoker, I might be a bit out of the loop on this but could you elaborate a bit on the shore based and ship based class C positions that are coming?  Thanks.

 

[Stoker]

Hey Stoker, I might be a bit out of the loop on this but could you elaborate a bit on the shore based and ship based class C positions that are coming?  Thanks.

As it stands right now force protection, including the gate guard are getting class C. Sea training minor war vessels are in the process of getting it. Its expected that all shore based jobs, teaching, admin, OJT will be getting class C hopefully by the end of the year. This is in part a retention strategy and a move to declare and recognise that the reserves are either full time or part time.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Interesting.  Anyone heard if this move is being made on the Army side too?

I know there are (well...were...) alot of Class B/A positions in the ARE.  If the NavRes is going Cl C for those types of positions, it would seem to me that the PRes and Air Res should consider it as well.

 

[Stoker]

Interesting.  Anyone heard if this move is being made on the Army side too?

I know there are (well...were...) alot of Class B/A positions in the ARE.  If the NavRes is going Cl C for those types of positions, it would seem to me that the PRes and Air Res should consider it as well.

Until a msg is actually released, I would like to see it to believe it. I have been talking to some pretty highly pers on this, I was surprised when I heard it. I would expect that this would be for every one, all elements.
I personally think its about time. As it stands, if you get posted ashore, that's a lot of cash out of your pocket for the privilege of being ashore.

 

[Sailorwest]

As it stands right now force protection, including the gate guard are getting class C. Sea training minor war vessels are in the process of getting it. Its expected that all shore based jobs, teaching, admin, OJT will be getting class C hopefully by the end of the year. This is in part a retention strategy and a move to declare and recognise that the reserves are either full time or part time.

The odd part about the last comment here is that the NDA defines a person who is working full time in the CF as being Regular Force and a person working other than full time as being in the Reserve Force. Conceptually, this strategy is running in opposition to the definition in the NDA.

 

[Stoker]

The odd part about the last comment here is that the NDA defines a person who is working full time in the CF as being Regular Force and a person working other than full time as being in the Reserve Force. Conceptually, this strategy is running in opposition to the definition in the NDA.

Perhaps its time that the NDA is amended. Right now we really have 2 reserves, the full time guys and the part time guys, it didn't start out like that, but that's where we're at right now.

 

[Sailorwest]

Or perhaps those who want to work full time for the Navy should be in the regular force not the reserve force. What's happened is a blurring of this definition. Without getting hyper critical, why don't the people who seem to make a career of being in the navy just join the regular force?

 

[Stoker]

Or perhaps those who want to work full time for the Navy should be in the regular force not the reserve force. What's happened is a blurring of this definition. Without getting hyper critical, why don't the people who seem to make a career of being in the navy just join the regular force?

I think some people like being able to go full time and have the option to go back part time to do whatever. I know lots of full timers that have invested a lot into the reserves and have no intention of joining the regular forces and actually see it as a step back in a lot of ways. The regs are not the be all, end all like people think.

 

[dapaterson]

People on continuing full-time service are Reg F - that we've corrupted the Reserves to let some do that as well does not make it right.

What may be needed instead is sub-components of the Reg F, with a variety of posting restrictions or other conditions attached (that would impact pay).

Right now, we're playing games and refusing to admit that we have too little military for the tasks we've been assigned/taken on, so we cheat to make it work.

 

[nick2k]

The reason why the navy has such a hard time getting people to stay in is the fact that they still run the navy as they did 50 years ago. I was in for 5 years and I finally saw the light and joined the air force. While in the navy I was duty every 13 days. Washing, waxing, sweeping floors. Cleaning toilets, painting and answer phones just to name a few. The funny thing was I never got in **** for anything, plus I was a NET(T) or Radar Technician that was just the way the navy works. In the air force, I go to work, do what I was trained to do( Fix planes or helos) , and then go home. Much better quality of life. No stranger to work . Dont mind work 5 days or more straight no food or sleep. I want to work but not being the janitor im sorry.The navy spent all this money training me to do the job someone with a grade 2 education can do.

 

[Neill McKay]

The reason why the navy has such a hard time getting people to stay in is the fact that they still run the navy as they did 50 years ago. I was in for 5 years and I finally saw the light and joined the air force. While in the navy I was duty every 13 days. Washing, waxing, sweeping floors. Cleaning toilets, painting and answer phones just to name a few. The funny thing was I never got in **** for anything, plus I was a NET(T) or Radar Technician that was just the way the navy works. In the air force, I go to work, do what I was trained to do( Fix planes or helos) , and then go home. Much better quality of life. No stranger to work . Dont mind work 5 days or more straight no food or sleep. I want to work but not being the janitor im sorry.The navy spent all this money training me to do the job someone with a grade 2 education can do.

What do you see as an alternative for maintaining the ship?

 

[NCRCrow]

I agree with nick2k post. I see his frustration every day with new people when they join the ship and we make them do everything but their job. When they are not cleaning, we make them do redundant WHIMIS training and other BS.

To start to retain sailors we have to adjust our outdated thinking and maybe have cleaning stations 3 times a week for a half hour. In a two hour cleaning station , how much work gets done after the first 30 minutes.

I agree the ship must be maintained but a balance must be put in place to ensure work and maintenance is done but also tactful training either alongside or at sea.

I don't blame you for going to the AF, the Navy is not an easy go.

 

[George Wallace]

Question about Cleaning:

Why doesn't the Navy do like the Army and Air Force and hire civvie contractors to clean the heads, passageways, etc.?    >
   


Oh! Yea.  It is rather hard to get that cleaners van from Esquimalt to the worksite if the worksite is cruising the Red Sea, or Pearl, or Gulf of Yeman, or Bermuda, or ...........

:

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I agree with nick2k post. I see his frustration every day with new people when they join the ship and we make them do everything but their job. When they are not cleaning, we make them do redundant WHIMIS training and other BS.

To start to retain sailors we have to adjust our outdated thinking and maybe have cleaning stations 3 times a week for a half hour. In a two hour cleaning station , how much work gets done after the first 30 minutes.

I agree the ship must be maintained but a balance must be put in place to ensure work and maintenance is done but also tactful training either alongside or at sea.

I don't blame you for going to the AF, the Navy is not an easy go.

Agree with all the above.

Question about Cleaning:

Why doesn't the Navy do like the Army and Air Force and hire civvie contractors to clean the heads, passageways, etc.?    >
 


Oh! Yea.  It is rather hard to get that cleaners van from Esquimalt to the worksite if the worksite is cruising the Red Sea, or Pearl, or Gulf of Yeman, or Bermuda, or ...........

George, your missing the point on nicks post, he wants to do the job he was trained to do, not be a glorified cleaner which is what our junior guys tend to end up doing, day after day. It is at the point now where when they do get to do training their skill set has slipped significantly.

 

[NCRCrow]

At sea is at sea, and I think we have a good balance in that area.

The issue is not with cleaning stations specifically, but the management of our 8 hour day alongside. The Navy is (trying) improving the duty watch system and encourage PT. I have seen this trend and I like it and I applaud Command for implementing it. Ports are drastically improving as the CFB Norfolk VA is slowly disappearing and the ships are visiting some outstanding ports on the US Eastern seaboard. I can attest to Key West FLA as the best foreign port ever!

we just need to balance training and BS and this will work. I can the mentality changing and I know the CMS is listening to us Sailors.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I attended the SCAN held in Halifax this past week.  There were around 450 people in attendance.  Granted a few were the partners of these folks, but not too many.  We are going to be in the hurt locker on this coast over the next couple of years as these folks take their exit.  They still need to so something on the retention issues.  For me, I would like to see the pension souped up somehow.  Maybe 2.5% a year vs the 2%, some bonus on re-signing ala the USN.  For me it is too late on the bonus, I am already on my IPS and getting the bone on leaving before 24 + a day but making the pension juicier would intice me to see the IPS to the end and maybe further. 

 

[November Charlie]

I attended the SCAN held in Halifax this past week.  There were around 450 people in attendance.  Granted a few were the partners of these folks, but not too many.  We are going to be in the hurt locker on this coast over the next couple of years as these folks take their exit.  They still need to so something on the retention issues.  For me, I would like to see the pension souped up somehow.  Maybe 2.5% a year vs the 2%, some bonus on re-signing ala the USN.  For me it is too late on the bonus, I am already on my IPS and getting the bone on leaving before 24 + a day but making the pension juicier would intice me to see the IPS to the end and maybe further.

We hurt already...unfortuantely its not hurting the right people....personally, I'd like to see it so bad that POs have to do their 2 hour cleaning stations because all the lower deckers have re-mustered to the airforce.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

We hurt already...unfortuantely its not hurting the right people....personally, I'd like to see it so bad that POs have to do their 2 hour cleaning stations because all the lower deckers have re-mustered to the airforce.

And when you need things done Divisionally who is going to do that? "PO, did my paperwork go through for my advance promotion" "Sorry AB but I am here scrubbing the heads.." There is a reason why POs are not involved in cleaning stations. :

 

[November Charlie]

And when you need things done Divisionally who is going to do that? "PO, did my paperwork go through for my advance promotion" "Sorry AB but I am here scrubbing the heads.." There is a reason why POs are not involved in cleaning stations. :

Yes of course your right, I understand that we all have our jobs to do. And my comment wasn't actually meant as a shot against and PO's, I just wanted to make the point that the fleet is hurting real bad and it don't seem to be any relief for people such as myself doing a job by myself that was once done by 3 or 4 men. There are a lot of releases and there would be even more if the money wasn't so good. Why is that? The navy has gone wrong somewhere down the line.

 

[Otis]

Trust me, NC ... a lot of the PO's are no better off than the Jr Ranks ...

I currently have a friend on one of the ships ... PO1 with no departmental Chief, no PO2, no MS and short 1 LS out of 5 ... this PO is currently sailing doing all four Snr NCO jobs while trying to train the Jr personnel to do thier jobs AND complete thier secondary duties.

Everyone's feeling the brunt and until we get all of these new people in, trained and out to the fleet, it's not going to get better.