Military pushes overhaul of medal system

[1feral1]

Mick,

I was ONLY making a point, and I am fully aware of the history of conscription in Canada in both wars. If anyone wants to google or research this, then fine.

I am not stirring any type of pot, or saying anything to cheapen anyone's military service, opinions aside, we're all on the same team here.

OWDU

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

So when I go on a 2 month BTE  I should get a medal simply because Ive been away from home for a while? No, because that is part of the training requirement of my job. Just because a soldier/sailor/airman spends time away from home should not mean a medal... thats just getting silly.

Personally, Im happy enough with a few days off here and there.

Ok I know I'm jumping in late on this one.  Having spend time in both elements.  Don't judge the other until you have sailed, flown, or lived in the mud with them.  The Navy has no equivelant to BTE,  the conduct multiple multinational type events combined with interdiction operations, thats right operations, and sovereignty patrols.  Especially if you happen to sail on a command platform where you might just spend the odd weekend at home.  Not so diffrent from a workup and deployment cycle. Except that all of thier operations and trg take place outside of Canda, there is no hospital for someone who breaks an ankle. No role 3. Yes they may not be under fire everyday.  but think if the ship springs a leak, or lights on fire,  it has happened, sailors have lost thier lives.  The threat is very real to them. the exception is when it goes real bad fore them, theres no fast air, no guns, no armour to bail them out. The ship sinks all 300 die. As for a long sea service award, I say no but that is an opinion for someone with 7 years sea time before jumping ship so to speak.

 

[kratz]

I am reluctant to speak up and post around here as the Senior Pers and even the SMEs beat me to it most of the time anyhow.

On H&R (Honors & Recognition) I have a view that is not common. When I joined in '93, it was not uncommon to view most senior staff with a CD and a couple gongs. This experience and the culture I felt I entered of the CF set the feeling that having earned the CD was "enough" and anything else was "extra". While I experienced this feeling, I mean no disrespect, I am posting an honest, open opinion.

I have always stood when a VC entered the room, but would I respect a 5star vetran over another who served? This is where the debaet is going when we talk about this years down the road.

 

[Long in the tooth]

The CVSM was not awarded for 18 Months away from home.  Get your fact straight!!!!

 

[PMedMoe]

The CVSM was not awarded for 18 Months away from home.  Get your fact straight!!!!

True.  From Veteran's Affairs:

The Canadian Volunteer Service Medal (CVSM) was established on October 22, 1943 and issued in recognition of eighteen months of voluntary service in the Canadian Forces.

The medal was granted to persons of any rank in the Naval, Military or Air Forces of Canada who served on Active Service from September 1939 to March 1947 and were honourably discharged, retired from service or killed in action, in which case the medal was awarded posthumously. In addition, those who served outside of Canada for a total of 60 days, continuous or intermittent, were awarded silver bars with a maple leaf at its centre. These bars were often called clasps and were worn on the ribbon along with the medal.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . In addition, those who served outside of Canada for a total of 60 days, continuous or intermittent, were awarded silver bars with a maple leaf at its centre. These bars were often called clasps and were worn on the ribbon along with the medal.

And added as just an interesting curiosity - service in Newfoundland counted as overseas service.  But as my Grandfather used to say - he preferred the Americans to the Canadians; the Yanks might have been more annoying but they spent more money.

 

[PMedMoe]

And added as just an interesting curiosity - service in Newfoundland counted as overseas service.  But as my Grandfather used to say - he preferred the Americans to the Canadians; the Yanks might have been more annoying but they spent more money.

Ah, yes, but Newfoundland wasn't part of Canada then.

 

[Long in the tooth]

On a personal note, twenty years ago I had two medals, even the RSM had only three.  Now there are Jr NCOs with half a dozen.  My aunts were awarded three medals without leaving Canada, while my father in Italy picked names from a hat, just like my Queen's Golden Jubilee medal.

I'm proudest of my Second Bar to the CD.  Thank God minor punishments are removed after a year!

 

[gwp]

On a personal note, ...... while my father in Italy picked names from a hat, just like my Queen's Golden Jubilee medal.

Recipients for the QGJM were not selected at random.  There was a specific set of criteria that was based on rank and time in.  While the system was not perfect it was a vast improvement over the non-system for the CAN 125 or the QSGMs and previous commemoratives.  Further, there is a body of CF members who received the QGJM from sources outside the CF such as from their Member of Parliament or Lieutenant Governor. 

For the general population
http://www.gg.ca/honours/medals/hon04-qegj_e.asp

For CF members
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=GoldenJubilee
Canadian Forces members must be recommended by the Chief of Defence Staff to the Government of Canada. Selection is computer generated and distributed proportionally to Regular and Reserve members (including Cadet Instructors, Canadian Rangers and Honorary Positions) by component, rank, Military Occupation and years of service. CANFORGEN 024/02 CDS 017 refers.

FROM THE CANFORGEN

THIS PROGRAM IS AN IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT ONE FOR MEMBERS OF THE CF, AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE DISTRIBUTION BE AS FAIR AND OBJECTIVE AS POSSIBLE. A RANGE OF SELECTION PROPOSALS WERE CONSIDERED, AND IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT THE MEDALS WILL BE DISTRIBUTED PROPORTIONATELY BY DEU, RANK AND YEARS OF SERVICE, BASED ON THE RETIREMENT BASE ELECTION DATE. PROPORTIONALITY BY MOCS WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE CALCULATIONS. THE PROGRAM WILL APPLY TO LT/SLT AND ABOVE AND PTE(T)/A-B AND ABOVE WHO ARE SERVING AS OF 6 FEB 02. EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION WILL BE ENSURED FOR THE REGULAR FORCE, PRIMARY RESERVE, CIC, RANGERS, AND HONORARY APPOINTEES. THE LARGEST SINGLE RECIPIENT GROUP WILL BE THE CPL RANK. WORKING GROUPS WILL BE FORMED TO REVIEW THE SELECTION OF RECIPIENTS

 

[armyvern]

Recipients for the QGJM were not selected at random. 

No, you're right.

My grandfather recd one - not surprising given that he was the Returning Officer (and a true blue Tory) in that used-to-be true blue Tory riding headed up by used-to-be-Tory independant Bill Casey.



The Liberals should jump all over this and turn it into a news story on a slow day (lots of those lately apparently), given that my grandfather is a direct descendant of the last heretic burned at the stake in England ...  :

 

[Haggis]

The officer who adminstered the computer generated selection process for the QGJM wasn't even a CF member.  She was a USAF exchange officer, a major, and one VERY smart lady. Moreso, she was deemed ineligible for one herself.  How's that for a complete lack of bias?

In the end, though, units had to vet the recipient list prior to the submissions to the GG's office. This was to ensure that the nominees, selected as they were by computer, were of good moral character, somewhat deserving and, (in some cases) still alive.

 

[mariomike]

And added as just an interesting curiosity - service in Newfoundland counted as overseas service.  But as my Grandfather used to say - he preferred the Americans to the Canadians; the Yanks might have been more annoying but they spent more money.

My father was on the "Triangle Run" during the war and admired the people of St John's. He did say that the merchants overcharged both American and Canadian servicemen.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I'm proudest of my Second Bar to the CD.  Thank God minor punishments are removed after a year!

Comments such as this always brings to mind an anecdote (that I related in another thread) about what a WW2 veteran thought of the CD. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47050/post-409156.html#msg409156

 

[Haggis]

"Just a CD"  also garners a huge amount of dedication.  I have tremendous resspect for the member with "just a CD" who consistently gets things done for 12, 22, 32 years.  In many cases s/he's more valuable than the member with two rows of bling who got things done long ago, but little else since.