Military pushes overhaul of medal system

[GAP]

Military pushes overhaul of medal system
Updated Tue. Aug. 11 2009 6:49 AM ET The Canadian Press
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OTTAWA -- The military is recommending an overhaul of its medal system to address a growing number of complaints that have overshadowed the glittering honours awarded to troops who serve overseas.

National Defence has conducted a "sweeping review" and put forward recommendations for the federal cabinet which are expected to include the creation of a single medal to recognize all overseas service, The Canadian Press has learned.

The military's senior policy adviser on medals and citations said the proposals are meant to simplify a system that has become "complicated" by different deployments, under different mandates.

The confusion and lack of recognition for some soldiers has led to bitterness and the occasional letter of protest from members and their families.

"We've done a major review that will have significant consequences in the way we recognize our people," said Maj. Carl Gauthier, who is in charge of creating new medals and modifying the rules for existing ones.
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[PMedMoe]

A single medal to recognize all overseas service?  So where does our distinction go?  Does this mean you won't see soldiers/sailors/airmen with numerous medals but only one or two?

I have a better idea, create a single medal to cover overseas service that is not already represented by a medal.  Oh yeah, and while you're at it, bring back the numbers for multiple tours.

Personally, I like this comment:

"When we're in the business of medal design and medals criteria, we're in the business of drawing lines. You either qualify or you don't. We have to balance recognition for recognition for people and also the respect and integrity for the honour system. For the medals to be worth something, we have to make sure the criteria is clear, that is applied consistently and fairly for everyone."

 

[Michael OLeary]

A single medal to recognize all overseas service?  So where does our distinction go?  Does this mean you won't see soldiers/sailors/airmen with numerous medals but only one or two?

Possibly with a return to the use of campaign clasps (bars) when individual operations deserve special recognition.

 

[armyvern]

Interesting article, but I wonder if it's indeed accurate.

While in Gagetown in June, the CDS did address Honours & Awards and the "lack of recognition" concerns being brought up by families and the CoC for certain tours.

He didn't mention a single tidbit about any so-called recommendations to go to a single medal for all overseas service, but he did mention that a recommendation was in the works to go forward that would see the addition of post-nominals in recognition of all tours in Afghanistan and elsewhere. That recommendation would see soldiers/sailors/airmen awarded with numerals authorized for wear on SWASM, GCS, & GCM and certain other Canadian Government issued medals (none of which are authorized post-nominals currently) in recognition of second and subsequent tours in that spefcific campaign/Op.

The awarding of, or wearing of, post nominals on those medals is currently not authorized - thus troops and some families of our Fallen, have expressed concerns that they were not being properly recognized for their service.

 

[Gunner98]

Military pushes overhaul of medal system
Maj. Carl Gauthier, who is in charge of creating new medals and modifying the rules for existing ones.

Jeez, I thought this was the purview of the DH&R, CMP and the GG's office and not a lowly Maj sitting in the bowels of NDHQ.

 

[George Wallace]

Jeez, I thought this was the purview of the DH&R, CMP and the GG's office and not a lowly Maj sitting in the bowels of NDHQ.

Major Gauthier is in DH&R and works with the GG's office.  He is the successor to Mr Beattie (Ret'd), whom he understudied prior to his succession into the position.  On a side note, Mr Beatty, should anyone meet him, has marvellous stories as to how he designed Canadian Awards, such as the Order of Canada, while in the RCAF, and later the CF.  A very interesting man.



[Edit to correct spelling of Mr Beatty]

 

[Edward Campbell]

In conversations with both retired and serving people I have detected one area of “worry” about medals: divisiveness.

The concern is that we are headed towards a situation in which e.g. the SWASM, the GCS, the GSM and the SSM take on an “order of precedence” indicating the “value” of a person’s service.

Similar concerns about an “us versus them” problem have been expressed, now and again, here on Army.ca. I’m fairly sure it bothers some senior leaders. I have been told, directly, by some members that it – the idea that their service, having served where they were most needed, is to be less “valued” than that of another member - bothers the hell out of them.

There’s some history about all this, and I suspect that some senior officers want to return to a (proven? established? just comfortable?) system wherein we have a general service medal, another “operational” service medal and specific campaign stars or bars, as necessary.

 

[mariomike]

On a side note, Mr Beattie, should anyone meet him, has marvellous stories as to how he designed Canadian Awards, such as the Order of Canada, while in the RCAF, and later the CF.  A very interesting man.

Here is a link re: Mr Beattie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_W._Beatty

 

[basrah]

Are people really that concerned over a piece of metal and cloth that you pin on your chest? I cant believe this is even an issue.

The majority of people in my unit couldnt care less about what medal goes where, and how many they have. It seems the only ones who are really concerned are those who perhaps didnt get the same sense of satisfaction from their tour.

Sure, it may give the wearer a sense of pride to have all 5 different medals from Bosnia pinned to their chest, but how about the personal pride of a job well done.

 

[vonGarvin]

Are people really that concerned over a piece of metal and cloth that you pin on your chest?

Yes we are.  It is formal recognition for a job well-done.  As Napoleon said, "Give me enough medals, and I'll win any war."

 

[Edward Campbell]

Are people really that concerned over a piece of metal and cloth that you pin on your chest? I cant believe this is even an issue.

The majority of people in my unit couldnt care less about what medal goes where, and how many they have. It seems the only ones who are really concerned are those who perhaps didnt get the same sense of satisfaction from their tour.

Sure, it may give the wearer a sense of pride to have all 5 different medals from Bosnia pinned to their chest, but how about the personal pride of a job well done.

I think what you have said is how we wish everyone felt, but, I suspect that Midnight Rambler's response is very valid. Soldiers do care about their "gongs" and some sense of "value" - my service merits a "better" medal than yours - is almost bound to creep in.

A serving member who has done a couple or three tours in Africa over the past few years - difficult, sometimes dangerous, frustrating and soul destroying tours - reports on being "looked down upon" by colleagues because there is no South West Asia Service Medal. That's the "real" war where the "real" soldiering is done; where promotions are to be earned; and so on. Maybe the member is just hypersensitive but I would not be surprised if the report is accurate.

 

[Long in the tooth]

We'll never make anybody happy with this one, and it always has been this way.  My father in law had his WW2 medals stolen.  He had spent almost 9 months in the Atlantic and Pacific but had neither star.  He had 'only' 150 days in the Atlantic so he didn't qualify.  However, if he had six months he would've gotten BOTH, as qualifying time for the Pacific Star dropped from 180 days to 30 days if he had the Atlantic Star....

And it's the same for qualifying time for hazard/overseas pay.  Those of us who did our careers in Canada start from zero, whereas guys who did the real hard time in Germany with their wives (or 2 or 3) and kids may have a hundred points.  And the SSM.

You'll never satisfy everyone!

 

[Infanteer]

An all-encompassing medal?  Wasn't that what the GCS was created for in the first place, with the GCM as backup?

So if I read this right, they want to merge the two into on all-singing, all-dancing medal?

Funny how the article portrays the SWASM vs the GCS for service in Kandahar.  The GCS is described as "coveted" while the SWASM was something they had to settle for.  That is not how things seemed in the press and even on these forums a few years ago.  The GCS was associated with Kabul and the SWASM was the "warfighting medal".  Of course, that perception has changed with time.

It sure would have been easier if they would have just stuck with the SWASM for all service in Afghanistan.

A combat badge and "Sacrifice Medal" were two things foreign to our "medal culture", but I suspect, after years of service on UN and NATO missions where each mission was represented by a medal that our military might not be keen on just adding bars to a single medal (go to Cyprus, get the Cyprus Medal; go to Croatia, get the UNPROFOR medal; go to Bosnia and get the Former Yugo medal, etc, etc).  Someone around here a while back put their money on the GCS not surviving the next tour because it wasn't unique to that mission - I suspect they may be right.

 

[basrah]

Yes we are.  It is formal recognition for a job well-done.  As Napoleon said, "Give me enough medals, and I'll win any war."

Personally, I know that the guys I served with know that I did a job well done, I dont care what people I dont know think or what their opinion is of what I have on my chest.

I was recently informed that I have received an additional medal for leadership under fire on this last tour, and to be honest, I dont want it. I know  I did a good job, and thats all that matters to me.

 

[Otis]

From a Navy perspective, one of the dissatisfier's has been overall days away from home.

Someone who goes away to an Operational area for six months (180 days) gets a medal, while someone else who spends over 250 days away from home (non-consecutive ... i.e. 4 month tour overseas, 3 month exercise, 2 more months on a Soverignty Patrol) recieves nothing more than a few days off here and there.

Arguments can be made for potential danger level etc...and I'm not making any argument either way, I'm just adding another cause of dissatisfaction with the current system.

Otis

Sorry if there are spelling errors ... the spell check won't work on my DWAN computer!

 

[the 48th regulator]

Personally, I know that the guys I served with know that I did a job well done, I dont care what people I dont know think or what their opinion is of what I have on my chest.

I was recently informed that I have received an additional medal for leadership under fire on this last tour, and to be honest, I dont want it. I know  I did a good job, and thats all that matters to me.

Ah yes the humble soldier, an attitude which I always say was a characteristic of all soldiers especially Canadian.

My complete quote can be found here, however, I have posted the exerpt on my concept of what our medals really stand for, and who they belong to;

Now, I was not upset by the civvy, or my nation.  But this is the way I look at it, our actions in uniform must be carefully thought out, as we represent our country.  I too am a  billboard for the achievements of my country.  My medals tell a story, not about me and what I have achieved, but what Canada has done and achieved.  All the medals that I wear is a story of where Canada has been.  When one wears a medal, that signifies that they were wounded, it shows that Canada had the muster to send its soldiers in a dangerous area.

It has nothing to do with me being selfish, however I am willing to take the brunt of those who wish to call me that.  Call my reasoning behind what I am saying as being a little too deep, I don't care.

dileas

tess

 

[basrah]

From a Navy perspective, one of the dissatisfier's has been overall days away from home.

Someone who goes away to an Operational area for six months (180 days) gets a medal, while someone else who spends over 250 days away from home (non-consecutive ... i.e. 4 month tour overseas, 3 month exercise, 2 more months on a Soverignty Patrol) recieves nothing more than a few days off here and there.

So when I go on a 2 month BTE  I should get a medal simply because Ive been away from home for a while? No, because that is part of the training requirement of my job. Just because a soldier/sailor/airman spends time away from home should not mean a medal... thats just getting silly.

Personally, Im happy enough with a few days off here and there.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Yes we are.  It is formal recognition for a job well-done.  As Napoleon said, "Give me enough medals, and I'll win any war."

Actually, medals for operations are medals for "being there."
Meritorious service decorations and commendations are for "job(s) well done."
Bravery and valour decorations are for actions above and beyond the call of duty.

The problems that have evolved come when people want to keep subdividing the first group to also define who did what while "being there.".

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So when I go on a 2 month BTE  I should get a medal simply because Ive been away from home for a while? No, because that is part of the training requirement of my job. Just because a soldier/sailor/airman spends time away from home should not mean a medal... thats just getting silly.

Personally, Im happy enough with a few days off here and there.

Not to start a dogpile but I pretty much agree with this point.  I don't think the CF needs a "time away from home doing my job" medal, do we?  IMO, the CD covers "service outside of a SDA". 

My  :2c:

 

[PMedMoe]

The article stated a "key proposal is the creation of an overseas service medal" not a "I've been on exercise" medal.