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Military 'Might' not 'Right' for Schoolyard, father says

Blackadder1916

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Well it seems that some parents have concerns over not just students bringing ordnance to "show and tell".


Parents raise concerns over military visit to school
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=37648&sc=79
STEVE BARTLETT AND HOLLY HILL The Telegram - last updated at 4:32 PM on 15/06/07 

Promotion of Canadian Forces Day is coming under fire from a Holyrood parent.

On Wednesday, a crew from CFS St. John's visited Holy Cross elementary in the Conception Bay town with a LAV III (light armoured vehicle) and Jeep-like machine called a G-wagon.

The visit was part of a promotion for Canadian Forces Day, an event set for Saturday at Pleasantville.

Parent Jean Dandenault doesn't think the presentation was appropriate.

He claimed his nine-year-old daughter, Juliette, was shown, among other things, how to fire an unloaded gun.

"For the military to have the army come to the school and show this, without any consent from parents, seems really off the wall," said Dandenault.

Capt. Mark Gough, a public affairs officer with the military, admitted the soldiers had a disabled C-9 machine gun with them.

He said a student saw it and asked to look at it.

The child then wanted to see how heavy it was.

The soldier, Gough said, held it in his hands and let the child touch it and get a feel for what it was like.

"At no time was the student given the machine gun by himself," he said.

"The soldier had control over it the whole time."

According to Gough, other students then asked to do the same and the soldier allowed it.

"Even before the soldier allowed the first student to handle the weapon," Gough said, "he asked permission of the principal and the teachers that were there, if they saw anything wrong with that, and they said no."

Gough said he is not trying to place blame on Holy Cross staff. But principal Robin McGrath said he didn't consent to the activity.

He said he didn't even know guns would be part of the presentation until he saw a student touch one and then he quickly brought the presentation to a close. McGrath said he called Eastern School District to ensure such an incident didn't happen at another school.

But the gun wasn't the only thing that upset concerned parent Dandenault.

He said children are easily influenced.

"It's like this is a type of tactic of recruitment," he said.

Gough countered that recruitment was definitely not part of the rationale behind the visit.

He said similar activities are conducted across the country all the time in order to educate people about what the military does.

Allowing people to speak with soldiers and see equipment, he said, is meant to give them a better understanding of what Canadians are doing in places like Afghanistan.

"By allowing a child or somebody to feel the weight of a C-9 machine gun, it will give them an idea of what some poor soldier is doing slogging out in the heat over in Kandahar. In addition to that machine-gun, he's carrying a helmet and body armour and all sorts of other equipment, 50-60, pounds in some cases."

McGrath sees the educational value of the visit and said it is no different than having the RCMP come in. But in no way, he said, does he promote weapons.

Dandenault said the school should have informed parents about the military visit. At least then he would have had a choice of not letting his child attend.

McGrath said he didn't have time to send information home about the visit. He said the military confirmed their visit Wednesday, saying they were on their way.

"At that time, I had to make a judgment call," he said.

Not all parents disagree with the principal's decision. Dandenault lodged the only complaint.

But Sean Power would liked to have been informed, too.

"It would have been nice if we had known, because there are parents who are dead set against that stuff," said Power.

He didn't mind his nine-year-old daughter, Brittney, learning about the military though.

The more information his kids receive, he said, the better.

Power said his daughter didn't learn how to fire guns, but she was allowed to board the LAV 3.

He said he wished he had known about the visit beforehand so he could take pictures.

Because of the concern expressed by Dandenault, Gough said the military did not include personal weapons in presentations Thursday or today.

"These things are always difficult," he admitted. "There are always folks that have some concerns, whether it is driving armoured vehicles near a school or allowing kids to take a look at or handle weapons. When people do raise concerns, we have to respect them, and that's why we decided not to bring the personal weapons out to show the kids."

Thursday morning, The Telegram attended similar military visits at two Conception Bay South elementary schools, Upper Gullies and St. Edward's.

Soldiers and teachers at both schools kept the students under close watch.

The only weapons visible were the ones attached to the LAV 3, which were far out of reach.

The common reaction to the vehicles was, "Cool!"

The students all appeared enthusiastic, although some jokingly told the soldier sitting at the LAV 3's gun not to shoot.

The majority of the children The Telegram spoke to have little knowledge of the war in Afghanistan, aside from knowing a battle was happening.

There were some, though, who had family in the military, like Josh Chaytor, who attends the Upper Gullies school.

His Uncle Darrell is in Afghanistan and he said he's learned a lot about the war from his mother's brother.

"I gave him my favorite dinky (to take to Afghanistan). ... He gave it to another little girl because she was paralysed."
 
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2007/06/15/military-school.html

A Holyrood father said the Canadian military crossed a line by bringing an army tank to a schoolyard, and allowing children there to touch weaponry.
The Canadian Forces have been bringing a tank to schools in the St. John's area this week.
(CBC) "I'm kind of amazed," said Jean Dandenault, whose nine-year-old daughter and her class at Holy Cross Elementary school were given a first-hand show-and-tell session with a tank and related gear.

Dandenault said he and his wife were shocked when their daughter described her day on Wednesday.

"She said, 'We had soldiers with an armed vehicle and they showed us how to use rifles.' They pulled the trigger," said Dandenault.

"It's almost unbelievable that they're showing this to Grade 4, 5, 6 [students]," he said. "I don't feel it is the place. The school is a learning place, not a place to show military [equipment].… This is basically recruitment."

The Canadian Forces have been touring schools in the St. John's area this week, as part of an outreach program.


Jean Dandenault says he was 'amazed' that his nine-year-old daughter's class was shown an army tank.
(CBC) Master Cpl. Mike Dawe said children have never been put at risk.

"They just got to hold it — that was pretty much it," said Master Cpl. Mike Dawe, who said demonstrations of a rifle are conducted safely.

"It was under supervision. I had it [and] I didn't let go of it," said Dawe. "They got to put it on their shoulder and just kind of see what it was like."

Parent Elizabeth Kenny was not bothered by a demonstration on Thursday at a school in Topsail.

"They all have questions about the army and the truck and what are they doing here, and it's great for them to take the time out and come and share this with them," Kenny said.

Meanwhile, Dandenault said he was told by the school that there was not enough time to send notices home to parents about the military visit.

He said he does not object to the Canadian Forces participating in job fairs organized for high school students.

:brickwall:
 
::)

Well....this guy's naivete really shows doesn't it.  A TANK?  Sure buddy.  Please get off your meds before you contact the Press next time.  It is so annoying when these reports come in from people who really have no idea of what is going on around them.
 
That same subject, another article is also in the reply # 42 of that thread :

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/63186.30.html


Add : the bold part
 
He's amazed that the kids were shown a Tank ?

He must never have taken his kids to an airshow or to see the snowbirds then.......
 
This really doesn't surprise me.  In the spring of 06 RCD B Sqn  decided to do some hearts and minds work on the RMA while beginning work ups for Afghanistan. 

One of our patrols was sent to a school when the Coyotes pulled into the parking lot some dough-head teacher called the police and told them that there were armed men at the school.  No, apparently the Canadian Uniforms and Canadian Flags and 2, 13 ton Coyote's were not enough for this dip-stick to figure out that it was the Canadian Army.  To make matters all the more comical the OPP (who had been forewarned that we would be in the area) didn't get the memo from higher and the Principal who also knew we were coming wasn't informed by professor moron that he'd called the cops on us.

:brickwall:
 
OH, do tell us a bit more of the fall out  :D !

Did the police tried to arrested you  ;) ?
 
Yrys said:
OH, do tell us a bit more of the fall out  :D !

Did the police tried to arrested you  ;) ?

No, they didn't try to arrest anyone.  BTW I wasn't there...  I was about 40km away being told that I could not park my patrol across from a completely different school because we were "Upsetting the children".  :rage:

It was a wonderful day in all I think that not a single one of the hearts and minds initiatives went off smoothly.
 
Funny how the hearts and minds stuff works better in Afghanistan (where we are supposedly the big bad imperialists) than it often plays at home...
 
Crap.  I hope this does not mess up my plan.  I've invited a couple of guys from my unit to come and talk to the kids at my school.  Yes, I'm a teacher.  We aren't all common sense lacking morons. I was hoping for a bit of a dog and pony with a G-wagon, so I hope this does not make people around here over-react. 
 
Spanky said:
Crap.  I hope this does not mess up my plan.  I've invited a couple of guys from my unit to come and talk to the kids at my school.  Yes, I'm a teacher.  We aren't all common sense lacking morons. I was hoping for a bit of a dog and pony with a G-wagon, so I hope this does not make people around here over-react. 

It shouldn't mess up your plans. Quite often my husband and his compatriots have been tasked to same-said show and tells at schools with their LAVs and other equipment/vehicles.

The object of this is neither to recruit nor glorify the military or the CF.

What it actually manages to accomplish, in most minds, is that here in Canada, one does not need to fear it's soldiers or it's military, as children often see as common-place in some other nations through their TV sets.
 
Reccesoldier said:
No, they didn't try to arrest anyone.  BTW I wasn't there...  I was about 40km away being told that I could not park my patrol across from a completely different school because we were "Upsetting the children".  :rage:

It was a wonderful day in all I think that not a single one of the hearts and minds initiatives went off smoothly.
Late 80's, a RCMP Cst in Ottawa tried to arrest a section of one of the local militia units which was conducting a patrolling Ex (no, not the one where they forgot the Carl G on the side of the road) when they broke the treeline onto the edge of the parkway adjacent to Rockcliffe.  For unknown reasons he couldn't grasp the fact that guys dressed in army clothes, carrying army guns, on an...well, OK not an army base but..., and presenting CF ID were well, Army guys.  For unknown reasons he also could not grasp the fact that Army guys (real ones that is, not the posers he had cornered) were legally authorized to carry automatic weapons and it took the presence of a MP patrol to have him see reason and let the patrol go on its way.  I never quite figured out what he thought his .38 was going to do if the 8 guys carrying assault rifles actually were bad guys.

Sometimes even guys who should know better, don't.
 
He is one of the reasons I have learned to never underestimate Stupid people in large numbers....

and why sometimes the press drive me insane.... are they really THAT desparate to sell a story?

sigh... I guess Id better not talk to anyone when I get back... God forbid someone think Im Warmongering and Glorifying it.....


sheesh....  ::)
 
This is all about parents trying to protect their kids from the real world and people who view fantasy as logical. It's a ****** up world out there and the sooner those kids learn it the better for them and for this nation, otherwise we start to have people like the above mentioned RCMP Cst walking around.
 
MP 00161 said:
Late 80's, a RCMP Cst in Ottawa tried to arrest a section of one of the local militia units which was conducting a patrolling Ex (no, not the one where they forgot the Carl G on the side of the road) when they broke the treeline onto the edge of the parkway adjacent to Rockcliffe.  For unknown reasons he couldn't grasp the fact that guys dressed in army clothes, carrying army guns, on an...well, OK not an army base but..., and presenting CF ID were well, Army guys.  For unknown reasons he also could not grasp the fact that Army guys (real ones that is, not the posers he had cornered) were legally authorized to carry automatic weapons and it took the presence of a MP patrol to have him see reason and let the patrol go on its way.  I never quite figured out what he thought his .38 was going to do if the 8 guys carrying assault rifles actually were bad guys.

Sometimes even guys who should know better, don't.

This must be a National Capital Thing then.  Back a few years earlier than Reccesoldier's story, it happened again.  The Sig O from the RCD was conducting a Recce from Renfrew to a town south of Ottawa and making way points for RHQ to conduct a NAV EX using PLGRs as part of the EX we were on.  He had taken the CO's Coyote to do this.  When they got to the town, they dismounted and walked around.  This was just after the 'Almalgamation' so it was quite a shock to him when he returned to the Coyote, to find it surrounded by Cruisers from three Police Forces, and a female cop with her hand on her gun questioning who they were.  Obviously she and her comrades didn't realize what a 25 mm cannon was.  It was just another case of stupid people.
 
ArmyVern said:
It shouldn't mess up your plans. Quite often my husband and his compatriots have been tasked to same-said show and tells at schools with their LAVs and other equipment/vehicles.

The object of this is neither to recruit nor glorify the military or the CF.

What it actually manages to accomplish, in most minds, is that here in Canada, one does not need to fear it's soldiers or it's military, as children often see as common-place in some other nations through their TV sets.
I'm sure our plans will work out.  Maybe it'll really mess them up if I were to throw my kit on and drive the G-wagon into the yard.  "We have one of those teaching our children?"hehehe. 
 
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