MILITARY ATTRACTS VIOLENT LOUTS

[mdh]

And what part of the article do you want them to refute? From all the articles I read on this issue (aside from the piece from Scott Taylor that I read this morning) all the information came directly from the survey. So what exactly is it that you want DND to say about it? I just don't understand why this article is so upsetting to you.

Major Peters,

There are several points in the CROP poll that underscore positive military values too - such as   dedication, loyalty, honour etc.

The article produced by CP emphasized one - rather negative aspect of the survey. (Which was highlighted by a headline writer using the term "louts" which I didn't find in the survey and assume was placed there by the newspaper that ran the piece - not CP, but the body of the CP piece is still at issue).

The question is about emphasis and context - and therefore the accuracy of the survey summary as a whole.

And if the DND doesn't want to take issue with the CP item - who will?

Ultimately it doesn't matter if I am upset with the piece - the real question is what impact does it have on our audiences, our reputation and our credibility.  

I am suggesting (from my admittedly limited vantage point well away from NDHQ) that we might do more.   (Perhaps posting the entire survey on the CF website with an explanation of the CF viewpoint might be one tactic. There are others.)

That said, it would be great to hear some PAFFO input on issues like these,

cheers, mdh

 

[TCBF]

PAFFO's don't exist to defend the minisTRY - they exist to defend the MinisTER.

Remember the demise of the Cdn AB Regt?  We should have had a never ending series of WW2 paratroopers on TV, with other vets, talking about the realities of military life.  Did the PAFFOS even TRY to engineer such a campaign?  Nope, close ranks around the minister and let the rest of the CF twist in the wind.

Tom

 

[Hunter911]

Personally, id definatly rather have a guy/girl beside me that knows how to, and WILL fire a rifle at someone, than a churchboy who believes all life is holy. I mean as long as you can control yourself, id think you could be ok. This just makes us sound like mosters and apes with no brains, when most of the people i know are good guys! Most of them even kids.

 

[canadianblue]

Doesn't the report suggest bringing in more women to moderate male members of the CF as well. I think its all BS in my humble opinion, and made up by a bunch of dumbasses who should try to find a real job.

 

[Shec]

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll...

...For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;

- Rudyard Kipling

 

[GO!!!]

Well put.

 

[Recce41]

Well Fellas
If it was the one I filled out, I may have checked the A box, ( Do you like to meet people in far off places and kill them). HAHAHA. There are many of us out there, that have friends that work at deadend jobs. I feel I have the career, that only few can have. I can say, I have earned the right to say "I AM CANADIAN".
I say F$%^ them, we carry on so they can write that crap. Remember, always keep the faith. :evil: :tank:

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

Well Fellas
If it was the one I filled out, I may have checked the A box, ( Do you like to meet people in far off places and kill them). HAHAHA. There are many of us out there, that have friends that work at deadend jobs. I feel I have the career, that only few can have. I can say, I have earned the right to say "I AM CANADIAN".
I say F$%^ them, we carry on so they can write that crap. Remember, always keep the faith. :evil: :tank:

    Keep the faith brother!  They don't have to understand us, just let us do our job.

 

[Edward Campbell]

â ? The overall public image of Canada's sailors, soldiers and airmen was overwhelmingly positive, with 88% of those surveyed telling the pollsters they had a somewhat or strongly positive view of members of the Canadian Forces. Only 4% had a negative impression.â ?

I guess Canadians don't bother reading our in-house surveys.

From today's National Post

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=e3500fbd-7a1b-486c-8b1a-280a96e22f03

Canadians support more funding for military
poll

Chris Wattie
National Post

June 13, 2005



A poll has found a great degree of Canadian affection for their armed forces -- and overwhelming support for more funding and better equipment for the troops, even if it means cuts elsewhere in the federal budget.

Just over three-quarters of those surveyed in a government opinion poll obtained by the National Post said the Canadian Forces was underfunded, and 44% believed that a decade of government cuts to the defence budget had hurt Canada's international reputation. According to 43%, the cuts have put the safety of soldiers at risk.

Asked how to find more money in the federal budget for the military, the most popular suggestion -- favoured by 36% -- was to reduce other programs and services. Another 22% was willing to see taxes increased, while 14% favoured running a deficit to pay for a revamped Canadian Forces.

The poll by Ekos Research Associates Inc. of 1,500 people, conducted last February for the Department of National Defence, is considered accurate within 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Most Canadians appeared to be clinging to the notion of their soldiers being used for humanitarian or peacekeeping missions rather than more aggressive "peace-making" roles, and preferred co-operation with the United Nations to working with the United States.

Two-thirds of those polled said it was important for our military to be able to work effectively with the United Nations. Only 49% felt it should be able to operate with the U.S. military.

Asked to choose between sending Canadian troops on traditional peacekeeping missions and what the pollsters called "a peace-making role, which might involve fighting alongside other UN troops to force peace," 57% chose classic peacekeeping missions.

The overall public image of Canada's sailors, soldiers and airmen was overwhelmingly positive, with 88% of those surveyed telling the pollsters they had a somewhat or strongly positive view of members of the Canadian Forces. Only 4% had a negative impression.

© National Post 2005​

The not so good news is that:

"¢ Most Canadians appeared to be clinging to the notion of their soldiers being used for humanitarian or peacekeeping missions rather than more aggressive "peace-making" roles, and preferred co-operation with the United Nations to working with the United States.

"¢ Two-thirds of those polled said it was important for our military to be able to work effectively with the United Nations. Only 49% felt it should be able to operate with the U.S. military.

"¢ Asked to choose between sending Canadian troops on traditional peacekeeping missions and what the pollsters called "a peace-making role, which might involve fighting alongside other UN troops to force peace," 57% chose classic peacekeeping missions.

The Pierre Trudeau/Ivan Head social engineering took root and has thrived.   There were a whole host of reasons why Trudeau was a petty, puffed up, pretentious intellectual poser - they are best exemplified in his absolute failure to understand anything much about his country and its place in the world.   He was totally, completely, hedgehog like in Isaiah Berlin's terms, wrapped up in his one big idea - which ended up giving ammunition to Lévesque, Bouchard, Duceppe et frères.   This idea that we should (or could) withdraw from the big, bad world and confine ourselves to marginal do-gooderism and still be taken seriously where in matters - in e.g. the G8 and WTO - was never, ever valid.   Trudeau was a nincompoop, a lightweight, and a poltroon.

 

[Slim]

Edward.

I have never ever met someone who could use the word poltroon and make sound like an insult before!

nevertheless I agree with everything you have said.

What concerns me is that the Canadian public does not want us to deply with the U.S....Even though they are one of only 2 or 3 armies in the world who are professional enough in the field to be SAFE enough to deploy with!

I am somewhat surprised that Canadians actually care about the CF...I guess I';ve grown up in an enviorment where the military was a dirty word!

And finally last but not least...Peacekeeping...They really don't get it do they?!

Slim

 

[Jungle]

Trudeau was a nincompoop, a lightweight, and a poltroon.

I also heard somewhere that as a youth, he tried to join the CF as an Officer, but failed BOTC (or whatever it was called at the time). I guess he couldn't stand failure, so he turned against the CF. Quite the Leader eh...

 

[Kat Stevens]

    Keep the faith brother!  They don't have to understand us, just let us do our job.

Dear Canada,
  On behalf of all us uneducated, violent louts who have put your safety ahead of our own for the last 100+ years:  You're welcome.

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[c4th]

â ? The overall public image of Canada's sailors, soldiers and airmen was overwhelmingly positive, with 88% of those surveyed telling the pollsters they had a somewhat or strongly positive view of members of the Canadian Forces. Only 4% had a negative impression.â ?

That is a nice turn around from 10 years ago when it was better to delete military service from your resume and replace it with "Time spent experimenting with drugs."

The proletariat is fickle and will believe whatever schlock is in print.  Let's be happy that the schlock is pro-military for now.  In 10 years it could be quite different.

 

[Hunter911]

When i was about 13,  i told my Dad i wanted to join the army, and he told me to go to the U.S. and join there. Its only been in the last couple years that ive realised how a) little my father knows about the military...b) how much he hates the military... its kinda sad, but everyone has their own opinion right?

 

[Fry]

Violent? Yeah, really... as if war is nothing but crayons and play-doh. I hate it sometimes how people view the military as barbaric. It's the military that gave those people the right to complain about things in the first place.

 

[pbi]

We obviously still have some work to do, even though the great majority of Canadian soldiers deployed over the last few years have been on "green" missions not "blue" ones. The public still doesn't quite get it. One thing I would do, for sure, is to eradicate the constant use of the word "peacekeeper" in the media (and, I'm sorry to say, by some military people...) as a replacement for "soldier". To me it is like calling firefighters "catsavers". It obscures the reality of what we may be called upon to do, and it confuses everybody. I suspect that underlying some of this sort of thing is the ever-present Canadian suspicion and dislike of the US and its foreign policy.

Having seen both the US and the "international community" in action in Afghanistan, I would much rather see us serving alongside the US.

Cheers.

 

[c4th]

To me it is like calling firefighters "catsavers". It obscures the reality of what we may be called upon to do, and it confuses everybody.

Your post reminds me of a "to any soldier" letter I received last year in Bosnia.  It started by asking me what it was like to serve in a "blue beret" (not airforce) and ended by asking me to write back if I was still alive.  As it is the thought or condolence that count, and I did survive long enough to write back, I corrected the child on the beret.

I have many friends (ex soldiers) who are firefighters and cops.  I think I'll use 'Catsavers' and 'Ticketwriters'.

 

[TCBF]

I correct the ill-informed by telling them that my occupation is 'Soldier', and that peacekeeping is a task, like sh_thole digging.  I also tell them I no more want to be called a peacekeeper than I do a sh_thole digger.  I want to be called a Soldier.

When pushed, I will admit that, at least with sh_thole digging, I accomplished a practical, well defined  mission in a timely and cost effective manner, with the added benefit of having the immediate gratification that comes with the sense of a job well done.  I cannot say the same about peacekeeping.

Tom

 

[Cpl.Banks]

Oh my goodness, All along I thought that the Canadian ARMED forces were just adult Cadets doing their bit to help the vets and promote hugging(scrap that CHAP) and a clean environment...This is  certainly changing my attitude towards the forces, ah thank god we have the hippie tree hugging liberals that know everything and love to correct us...I mean enlighten... yes enlighten...

Whoever believes this garbage should really get a grip on reality, they say how the priorities were ranked 4th and 5th...out of how many? And if there were more than ten were some of them completely unrelated see above. Just another example of some anti military journalist trying to over analyse how the forces do sometimes have to use...you guessed it folks hugs...wait no FORCE

Christ this ends my rant...
UBIQUE!!!

 

[NMPeters]

We are actually not the Canadian Armed Forces. We are the Canadian Forces. The "armed" got removed some 15 or 20 years ago..ish. I don't remember exactly when.