"Men's"/whatever "Christmas"/whatever Dinner (merged)
- Thread starter Michael OLeary
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The Librarian said:
Would that be "extras", food and drink or "Extras", Duties?
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George Wallace said:
I normally manage all three at the dinner anyway
;D
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The Librarian said:
True Librarian but the SNCO's and Officers are still treating it like a Mens Christmas Dinner in that they will be serving us et al.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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A good example of why Men's Christmas Dinners have evolved in a particular way over time. The below account is of the famous Seaforth Highlanders of Canada Christmas dinner at Ortona in 1943. Many other regiments have held similar events down through the ages. Bottom line in the case of this particular military tradition ... miltary only.
The setting for the dinner was complete, long rows of tables with white tablecloths, and a bottle of beer per man, candies, cigarettes, nuts, oranges and apples and chocolate bars providing the extras. The C.O., Lt.-Col. S. W. Thomson, laid on that the Companies would eat in relays... as each company finished their dinner, they would go forward and relieve the next company... The menu... soup, pork with apple sauce, cauliflower, mixed vegetables, mashed potatoes, gravy, Christmas pudding and mince pie... From 1100 hours to 1900 hours, when the last man of the battalion reluctantly left the table to return to the grim realities of the day, there was an atmosphere of cheer and good fellowship in the church. A true Christmas spirit. The impossible had happened. No one had looked for a celebration this day. December 25th was to be another day of hardship, discomfort, fear and danger, another day of war. The expression on the faces of the dirty bearded men as they entered the building was a reward that those responsible are never likely to forget… During the dinner the Signal Officer... played the church organ and with the aid of the improvised choir, organized by the padre, carols rang out throughout the church."
- Seaforth Highlanders Regiment, War Diary, December 25th, 1943
http://www.junobeach.org/e/2/can-eve-rod-ita-ort-e.htm
The setting for the dinner was complete, long rows of tables with white tablecloths, and a bottle of beer per man, candies, cigarettes, nuts, oranges and apples and chocolate bars providing the extras. The C.O., Lt.-Col. S. W. Thomson, laid on that the Companies would eat in relays... as each company finished their dinner, they would go forward and relieve the next company... The menu... soup, pork with apple sauce, cauliflower, mixed vegetables, mashed potatoes, gravy, Christmas pudding and mince pie... From 1100 hours to 1900 hours, when the last man of the battalion reluctantly left the table to return to the grim realities of the day, there was an atmosphere of cheer and good fellowship in the church. A true Christmas spirit. The impossible had happened. No one had looked for a celebration this day. December 25th was to be another day of hardship, discomfort, fear and danger, another day of war. The expression on the faces of the dirty bearded men as they entered the building was a reward that those responsible are never likely to forget… During the dinner the Signal Officer... played the church organ and with the aid of the improvised choir, organized by the padre, carols rang out throughout the church."
- Seaforth Highlanders Regiment, War Diary, December 25th, 1943
http://www.junobeach.org/e/2/can-eve-rod-ita-ort-e.htm
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My unit calls it "Men's appreciation dinner" nowadays, just for PC's sake. They could go a little further and change it to Soldiers appreciation dinner... why not. Free tickets to win a few turkeys and hams, a few plaques (Soldier of the year, athlete, MCpl) and a few wobblies. Always a good time.
The CF has rich traditions and it is these traditions that separate us from other Allied armies. I say leave the Men's Dinner (not the Soldiers' Dinner) alone. There is a place for spouses and this isn't it. Do you want your wife/girlfriend to see you throwing buns at Pte Bloggins. If you bring your spouse she'll keep nagging about how there's no salad fork while she tells you not to make an arse of yourself. Where's the fun in that? ???
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As a Jewish soldier i never did mind it being called the men's xmass dinner. Because of the traditions, and the history behind it. At times i was the one who decorated the christmass tree. However it is a new age, and PC is the norm. And in my view why to strict at times. Let it stay as the Men's Christmass dinner.
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Mazeltov!recoverygod said:As a Jewish soldier i never did mind it being called the men's xmass dinner. Because of the traditions, and the history behind it. At times i was the one who decorated the christmass tree. However it is a new age, and PC is the norm. And in my view why to strict at times. Let it stay as the Men's Christmass dinner.
Keep it the traditional way....my last year in the Reg Force at Gagetown, someone made the decision to turn the dinner into a cold self serve buffet. What a disappointment! I always enjoyed serving the troops, and then sitting down for a couple of cold ones afterwards.
Another "memorable" one involved having to clear the dining facility by 1400 hrs so everyone could go back to work!!!!! I still remember being told the RSM was ticked because we were wasting time by sitting down with our soldiers. What a unit that was!!!
Let me say the best ones were with the infantry units I served with over the years, the ones with the Airborne being the most fun, especially the hired Xmas elves from the Northwood/Executive Inn. No way today in PC times!
We did not have a Men's Dinner at CABC for the simple reason we had only a handful of JRs, mostly clerks, sup techs/riggers and one MSE Op. But we did have a really classy mixed dinner that put all that NFP money earned from the Airborne Kit shop to good use! On a company level though (most worked for us) we did find other ways of expressing our appreciation, including a Xmas beer call, though again that would not likely go over in today's PC environment.
Another "memorable" one involved having to clear the dining facility by 1400 hrs so everyone could go back to work!!!!! I still remember being told the RSM was ticked because we were wasting time by sitting down with our soldiers. What a unit that was!!!
Let me say the best ones were with the infantry units I served with over the years, the ones with the Airborne being the most fun, especially the hired Xmas elves from the Northwood/Executive Inn. No way today in PC times!
We did not have a Men's Dinner at CABC for the simple reason we had only a handful of JRs, mostly clerks, sup techs/riggers and one MSE Op. But we did have a really classy mixed dinner that put all that NFP money earned from the Airborne Kit shop to good use! On a company level though (most worked for us) we did find other ways of expressing our appreciation, including a Xmas beer call, though again that would not likely go over in today's PC environment.
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It should be left as it always has been. A tradition in which the Officer's and Sr. NCO's show their gratitude to the junior ranks. It's a tradition best left exactly the way it is. I could see the possibilities for disaster with having wives/girlfriends present. The guest gets smoked in the back of the head with some sort of food and gets all irate............... Depending on the personality, she either stands up and makes a huge scene, then gets a barrage from every direction, or she starts sobbing hysterically in the middle of the room about the stain on her dress or icing in her hair........... It's best left to tradition. My Regiment normally has Squadron level Christmas parties in which there's food & beverage available and wives/girlfriends are welcome/encouraged to come out. These functions are always a good chance for wives/girlfriends to come to a Unit function and meet their husbands co-workers, friends and their wives, and they are usually much tamer than the Mens Christmas Dinner.
My .02
Regards
My .02
Regards
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The Men's Christmas Dinner should retain both it's name and character.
I feel it is essential that a Bn retain an event in which the head table has the opportunity to be the tgt of a "fire mission, yule log" and the ensuing food fight, much to the amusement of the attending vets and guests of honor!
I think that is the reason that my unit had to have our Dinners in the unit lines as opposed to the mess!
I feel it is essential that a Bn retain an event in which the head table has the opportunity to be the tgt of a "fire mission, yule log" and the ensuing food fight, much to the amusement of the attending vets and guests of honor!
I think that is the reason that my unit had to have our Dinners in the unit lines as opposed to the mess!
D
Deleted member 9665
Guest
Having been lucky enough to live the type its only the members and the type were spouses, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend are invited, I personally prefer the unaccompanied type.
Why you may ask? quite simple...a mess diner has a lot of tradition, corrum (not sure if the term is correct in English), and they even tough they have a crash course....do not have a sense to respect it. As for us...(Only me perhaps) feel honored to be living such moment...and playing the game. Having one of my superior serving me is quite special..knowing that a superior will do it to thank us for the job we do.
The one with guest....well it should be less formal. It is a okay type do not get me wrong. But I prefer tradition.
Why you may ask? quite simple...a mess diner has a lot of tradition, corrum (not sure if the term is correct in English), and they even tough they have a crash course....do not have a sense to respect it. As for us...(Only me perhaps) feel honored to be living such moment...and playing the game. Having one of my superior serving me is quite special..knowing that a superior will do it to thank us for the job we do.
The one with guest....well it should be less formal. It is a okay type do not get me wrong. But I prefer tradition.
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Well, I started this subj and I guess I should leave you with the results of the actual Dinner as it did turn out.
Firstly - It had a larger turn out than expected, everyone minded their manners and all had an outstanding time and meal.
But hind sight being 20/20, you can understand that some Snr NCO's and Officers who did bring guests were naturally more drawn to entertain their guests as opposed to help out in the kitchen, thus putting a little more work on the rest of us. Everyone did pitch in to help in some fashion, just some were trying not to be rude and abandon their guests, and during the clean up phase some did find it necessary to stop and talk with soldiers and their family members prior to their departure. Of course those who worked didn't complain, just got the job done.
Overall, my opinion is this, The X-Mas dinner is for the soldiers and selected guest speakers, the Officers and Senior NCOs arrange, set up, serve and clean up after it. Merry Christmas to the Jr. Ranks for you do deserve our undivided attention.
Firstly - It had a larger turn out than expected, everyone minded their manners and all had an outstanding time and meal.
But hind sight being 20/20, you can understand that some Snr NCO's and Officers who did bring guests were naturally more drawn to entertain their guests as opposed to help out in the kitchen, thus putting a little more work on the rest of us. Everyone did pitch in to help in some fashion, just some were trying not to be rude and abandon their guests, and during the clean up phase some did find it necessary to stop and talk with soldiers and their family members prior to their departure. Of course those who worked didn't complain, just got the job done.
Overall, my opinion is this, The X-Mas dinner is for the soldiers and selected guest speakers, the Officers and Senior NCOs arrange, set up, serve and clean up after it. Merry Christmas to the Jr. Ranks for you do deserve our undivided attention.
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My Units 'Mens Christmas Dinner' was fun again this year, besides having to wake up at 0700 the next day to work (we were able to sleep in, woo)
Dinner of course served by Senior NCO's & Officers which has always been the case since i've been in.
We were kind of joking around that one day Mens Christmas Dinner would be called something different, sad to hear that other
Units have already adopted more of a PC title, but I guess some people actually do take offence to it... somehow.
Anyhow, I hope you all had a great time getting hammered & have a safe Christmas / Happy New Year.
Oh, odd thing about this dinner was that no one wore DEU's, mostly due to the fact that we had new recruits at the dinner, none of which
had their dress uniform yet, & we wanted them to feel a part of the Regiment, we didnt allow thoughs which weren't of age to drink, but they were allowed
to talk to us
Dinner of course served by Senior NCO's & Officers which has always been the case since i've been in.
We were kind of joking around that one day Mens Christmas Dinner would be called something different, sad to hear that other
Units have already adopted more of a PC title, but I guess some people actually do take offence to it... somehow.
Anyhow, I hope you all had a great time getting hammered
& have a safe Christmas / Happy New Year.Oh, odd thing about this dinner was that no one wore DEU's, mostly due to the fact that we had new recruits at the dinner, none of which
had their dress uniform yet, & we wanted them to feel a part of the Regiment, we didnt allow thoughs which weren't of age to drink, but they were allowed
to talk to us
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mudeater said:
I see your point and agree that it should be a members only event. After all, what would my husband do... probably nag and tell me to stop making an arse of myself!
I believe in the tradition. There are times and places for events with spouses and those without.
However, I see no reason for not applying a more accurate name. Whether you like it or not, the use of the title 'men's' is dated and less than accurate. I find nothing wrong that with the use of the word 'soldier's'.
D
Deleted member 9665
Guest
In french...it is call the "souper de la troupe" literaly : "supper of the troups or troup's diner"
wheter it is call the Troup's diner or the men's diner....It comes back to a tradition. I dont recall my dad talking about his "men's diner" that my mom was invited, and franckly I dont think they made such a case back then.
Ok I unbderstand we are in 2006 (That what I keep telling my client), but tradition is tradition...and that whats make it special.
wheter it is call the Troup's diner or the men's diner....It comes back to a tradition. I dont recall my dad talking about his "men's diner" that my mom was invited, and franckly I dont think they made such a case back then.
Ok I unbderstand we are in 2006 (That what I keep telling my client), but tradition is tradition...and that whats make it special.
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