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Medics in Afghanistan on frontline

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News article about two medics I usd to work with.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/01/01/pf-3116034.html

January 1, 2007

Medics in Afghanistan on frontline

By BILL GRAVELAND

HOWZ-E MADAD, Afghanistan (CP) - The 45 kilometres from where Canadian troops sit here to the Role 3 hospital at Kandahar Airfield might as well be 1,000 kilometres if there's a medical emergency. But the goal is the same for medics here at the front line and those back at the base: finding a way to keep Canadian troops alive.

Last year was a bloody one in southern Afghanistan, with 36 Canadian soldiers dying. That made 2006 Canada's worst year on the battlefield since the Korean War. Since 2002, 44 soldiers have died in Afghanistan.

While soldiers fight the Taliban in day-to-day skirmishes or in major offensives like the Canadian-led Operation Medusa in September, it is the medics who are responsible for providing the initial care once someone is hurt.

"I've seen more trauma out here than I've ever wanted to see in my entire life," said Master Cpl. Brent Schriner, 41, a senior medic with the 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry based in Shilo, Man.

"It literally is an eyeopener for medics. Back home you're within five or 10 minutes of definitive care where out here it can be 40 minutes," he explained.

Medics like Schriner must rely on soldiers doing buddy first aid while they take care of the more serious cases. The first minutes of care can mean the difference between life and death. Schriner, called "Doc" as a sign of respect from his patrol mates, joins them on foot patrols, carrying everything he needs in one large backpack. If there is a battle, he is there providing initial care. It's a job that's not for everyone.

"I'm out with the guys, out in the field where I feel a medic should be. Not everybody wants to be out in the field but we have a need for everyone right through the chain of care," Schriner said while on a foot patrol near the village of Howz-e Madad.

The Role 3 hospital back at Kandahar Airfield deals with the more serious cases after initial battlefield first aid is administered. Often wounded soldiers are airlifted in for emergency surgery.

"Priority 1 is immediate and life-threatening, Priority 2 seriously wounded but can wait for surgery and 3 is the walking wounded," said Master Seaman Eric Thiboutot, 39, a medical technician from 5 Field Ambulance, from Val Cartier, at the Role 3 Medical Inspection Room.

"There's a Priority 4 but that means there's nothing we can do," he finished. "We put them aside."

Thiboutot is on his fifth tour with the Canadian forces, having served in Croatia, Bosnia and Kabul.

"The reason I joined the military was I wanted to go on missions, to live the adventure. Back at home everything is routine and I feel I am really doing my job when I am out doing missions," said Thiboutot, who will return home in February.

But this current mission has been different. Dealing with a rising number of Canadian casualties dating back to August takes it toll on the caregivers as well.

"Each person has their own coping mechanism. There is mental health and if we have problems we can go talk to them, we talk among ourselves and we each have our own way," he said.

"But after a while you get used to it, even though it's not normal. As a med tech we are doing our job but we are actually dealing with people that are severely injured."

Thiboutot has his own way of dealing with the stress of the job. For the first time in his life he started writing every day in a journal.

"I maybe write it because the story has to be told at some point. For me it's like talking to myself and it allows me to vent out," he added.

"We are very proud of what we do mission-wise because we help the soldiers get home."

 
PQLUR

And your comment and area of expertise are?  This article has little to offer than a few troops appearing in print media.

From Article:
"The 45 km from where Canadian troops sit here to the Role 3 hospital at Kandahar Airfield might as well be 1,000 km if there's a medical emergency..."It literally is an eyeopener for medics. Back home you're within five or 10 minutes of definitive care where out here it can be 40 minutes," he said."

5 or 10 minutes after an ambulance arrives on civie street and then the wait begins at the hospital.

15-20 minutes after the Blackhawk arrives and little to no waiting at the Role 3 at KAF.  I would take 40 minutes from point of injury to a Role 3 with a CT Scanner any day, at least you know the care providers at KAF are there to Promote, Protect, and most importantly Heal.

What does definitive care mean to the average civilian reading a newspaper?  They could wait hours or days for the type of surgery and diagnostics that the Role 3 can provide.
 
Posted this article as an FYI only . . . I have "no" comment (just happened to run across the article on the CTV. ca website).

As for my area of expertise . . . 22 yrs and counting as a Reg F Med Tech.
 
Gunner98,

Well I have been trying to type a reply for almost an hour thus far, but have taken the opportunity to read and re-read my views.  At present all I can say is, your views regarding the average civilian, and the meaning of defenitative care.  Imagine a small town town in Canada with all the medical toys, a hospital, and more staff (ie medics and soldiers trained in FA/CLS/BTLS etc.......) all within a population of 2200 pers...........but oh wait how many coalition forces are at the same local as the Role 3??.  Soldiers with a cold won't gripe about there wait times when a fellow soldier arrives at the hospital being a priority casualty, whereas many civilians will, for the sole fact that they were there first.
 
PQLUR:
"As for my area of expertise . . . 22 yrs and counting as a Reg F Med Tech."
Congrats on your CD w/ clasp, just got mine, too.  A little more info in your profile will help others correlate the level of experience and knowledge involved in your posts.  Do you really think that it is an 'eyeopener for Med Techs'?

Lost Rover - "Imagine". 

I don't have to as I coordinate the trg for all Role 3 pers going into theatre.  I think a trip to the KAF Role 3 MMU is (or would be) an 'eyeopener' for Role 1 Med Techs and everyone else as well.
 
I found this article on the CTV.ca website and the heading was "War in Afghanistan an 'eyeopener' for medics" this heading caught my attention just like your patronizing comments as quoted below".

Gunner98 said:
PQLUR:
"As for my area of expertise . . . 22 yrs and counting as a Reg F Med Tech."
Congrats on your CD w/ clasp, just got mine, too.  A little more info in your profile will help others correlate the level of experience and knowledge involved in your posts.  Do you really think that it is an 'eyeopener for Med Techs'?

Lost Rover - "Imagine". 

I don't have to as I coordinate the trg for all Role 3 pers going into theatre.  I think a trip to the KAF Role 3 MMU is (or would be) an 'eyeopener' for Role 1 Med Techs and everyone else as well.
 
Sir, (Gunner98),

Do you feel that the article as printed was positive or negative in the overall perspective of the CF, and most notably the CFMS?  Myself as a former soldier, and one whom has been in the care of CFMS pers, I believe the article can help to provide insight to the general public as to the level of care that is afforded to our service personnel.  I have worked at CFMSS on TQ3-5's (whatever they are called now), and truly believe that the injuries being dealt with currently on operations are much greater than would be experienced in garrision or in the field within our borders, thus for many in they are partaking in there ultimate PO and as the Infantry/Engineers  et al.... .  At this point I am truly at a loss as to your direction with your statements.
 
Moved this here from Radio Chatter as I think it has potential.

Lets forget the rocky start and see where it goes.....
 
A good read. I worked with Eric Thiboutot in Petawawa. I wonder if he is still as crazy as ever?
 
I'd say it's just a classic example of "narrow arcs" reporting.

I the reporter did a good job of interviewing the men in question, but a poor one of putting their experiences in context. Had he provided the numbers of injured, the many instances of lifesaving aid by TCCC/Pl and Coy Medics/Role 3 in KAF, and the unique circumstances surrounding medevacs, the article might have had a bit more punch.

The article brought up the point that this is not the type of mission the CFMS has had in the past, but I don't think it was negative in it's portrayal.
 
The article's view is very narrow indeed.  It does not leave the public with a good idea of how quickly troops receive treatment after evacuation via Blackhawk or other coalition air assets.  Nor does it leave anyone with the impression that their kin are in good health care hands.  If we continue to state that the situation is an eyeopener for anyone, especially our medics, then we leave the media observer/reader with the perception that we have not trained them properly.  It is widely known that the level of trauma and blast injuries cannot be simulated during training or even found in any emergency room in Canada.  The Role 3 staff has consistently stated, with deserved pride, that the facility has saved every possible Canadian that has reached it alive.

My particular concerns are over the statements such as:

"I'm out with the guys, out in the field where I feel a medic should be. Not everybody wants to be out in the field but we have a need for everyone right through the chain of care," Schriner said while on a foot patrol near the village of Howz-e Madad.  This leaves the impression that some medics are refusing to leave the camp.

The Role 3 hospital back at Kandahar Airfield deals with the more serious cases after initial battlefield first aid is administered. Often wounded soldiers are airlifted in for emergency surgery.  Should say - whenever injuries permit.

"There's a Priority 4 but that means there's nothing we can do," he finished. "We put them aside."   This is only the case in a mass casualty scenario and after initial triage. They are not put aside, they do not receive ongoing intensive medical treatment, but they are not put aside, alone.  Someone stays with them or checks on them regularly and keeps them as comfortable as possible.
 
Gunner98
"If we continue to state that the situation is an eyeopener for anyone, especially our medics, then we leave the media observer/reader with the perception that we have not trained them properly.  It is widely known that the level of trauma and blast injuries cannot be simulated during training or even found in any emergency room in Canada."

If the level of trauma and blast injuries are such that cannot be simulated , thus for one it would be surprising or revealing, that is not to say there is a lack of training involved.  Take a soldier fireing on a range at fig. 11 targets, then provide a reactive target to fire upon, for this individual would shooting at a reactive target  prove to be an eyeopener?  I believe it would.

We can all read an article, and walk away with a different view.  Could the article have been better....yes, could it have been worse...yes, there is no happy medium.  This is a forum for open discussion, we all have own own views, and need to respect the views of others at the same time.


Apologizes for posting during your edit, all points raised are valid and I agree with them.
 
Lost Rover - I agree with your comments as well.  The merged article below has more detail and substance the original one posted by PQLUR.  The level of complexity of the injuries, the fact that ambulances leave camp without their Red Crosses displayed, with C-6 MG mounted.  We now train medics who will leave the camp on reflexive firing and rundowns, as well as live-fire C-6.  These concepts are eyeopening as well. 

I guess it is really the devious headline (words not in context) and the first two paragraphs that do not correspond with reality or the medics meaning.  Having work in the print media, I know it is the sensationalism that sells papers but in process sometimes it misleads or misinforms the public.  That is why I much like St. Mike's saw it as exposure for a couple of Medics.
 
Gunner98 said:
My particular concerns are over the statements such as:

"I'm out with the guys, out in the field where I feel a medic should be. Not everybody wants to be out in the field but we have a need for everyone right through the chain of care," Schriner said while on a foot patrol near the village of Howz-e Madad.  This leaves the impression that some medics are refusing to leave the camp.
I disagree. He said "not everybody wants to be in the field" not "medics are refusing to do their jobs"

I've been in a Parachute/Light Infantry Unit for several years now. We have a dearth of medics who are capable of being both a rifleman and a medic, and even fewer who actively seek this out. I doubt you would dispute my position that most medics consider a task as a platoon/company medic highly undesirable, that many prefer the working conditions and schedule of a UMS/Role 3.

This medic is stating an inconvenient fact.

 
Gunner98 said:
That is why I much like St. Mike's saw it as exposure for a couple of Medics.

This and as a future reference for people looking to find out what we do when we are deployed.

Anyway, enough with the squabbling...not every medic is superbly suited to every job. Unlike the cbt arms where they have a single mission focus (i.e. to close with and destroy the enemy...), medical services has widely encompassing roles in order to fullfill its mission of preserving manpower. I personally am glad there are medics who would rather work in the sterilization room or the medical/surgical wards while I am out in the unit medical stations. Every role needs to be filled, and its better if those filling them enjoy their job.

 
A good read. I worked with Eric Thiboutot in Petawawa. I wonder if he is still as crazy as ever? I also worked with with Eric in Coralichi, Bosnia, ROTO 4,
. I was a masterjack and Eric a cpl of one of the bison amb teams; crazy in a fun way: but one of the best, professional people I had the pleasure of working with....

Eric, I hope you read this: Well done, keep up the good work and come home safe...

Gerry Connors, formally 2RCR UMS back in the day
 
I doubt that many reporters are able to write a story that we could all agree with the content........I could criticize anything they said regarding artillery while someone else could find fault with what was said about engineering or supply, etc.  All I know about medicine you could put in a thimble.  That being said,  I doubt there is anyone here who doesn't appreciate the excellent job the medics do (whether or not they are in the field or in a hospital).  So.....here's to all medics  :salute:
 
I didn't mean to insult Eric by saying he was "crazy", just that, well, the guy is nuts on a motorbike or anything else he does, like downhill skiing, hockey... He is a great guy and he would do anything for anyone. If your going to war, he's the guy you want on your side.  Good work Turbo! :skull:
 
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