Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[suffolkowner]

I think once the dust settles down from the current ship building plan we will see some outside investment in smaller under utilized Canadian shipyards. There are a few around that could be ramped up for production of smaller ships.

If 'twere me then I would sooner the NSS limit be altered upwards a couple of hundred tonnes, if necessary, to bring the smaller yards into play. Also, taking the opportunity to continue beating the automation drum, I think that would leave open more minimally crewed, optionally crewed vessels.

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Unlikely to happen as it goes directly in the face of the goals of the NSS, which is to ensure long term operation and feasibility of the major shipyards by providing them with extended periods of work. Taking this work away from them and dumping it into smaller yards is directly fighting this goal.

If I were to make bets you'll see a yard inland getting this.

limits a 1000 tonnes displacement i doubt that Davie, Irving, and Seaspan want to give up any work even if the lack the time and resources to fulfil it.
small ships so far

Small vessel shipbuilding projects – Shipbuilding projects to equip the Royal Canadian Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard – National Shipbuilding Strategy – Sea – Defence and marine procurement – Buying and Selling – PSPC

Shipbuilding projects involving vessels with less than 1,000 tonnes of displacement.

www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca

 

[suffolkowner]

10 search and rescue boats for CCG
Chantier Naval Forillion Gaspe Quebec $88.2 million

10 search and rescue boats for CCG
Hike Metal Products Wheatley Ontario $88.2 million

2 Channel survey and sounding for CCG
Kanter Marine St Thomas Ontario $5 million

7 hydrographic survey vessels for DFO
Kanter Marine St Thomas Ontario $5.5 million

4 large naval tugs for DND
Ocean Industries Isle-aux-Coudres Quebec $102 million

4 lsteel barges for CAF
Canadian Maritime Engineering Port Alberni BC $2 million

Coastal Patrol Boats for the RCMP

TBD

 

[Stoker]

limits a 1000 tonnes displacement i doubt that Davie, Irving, and Seaspan want to give up any work even if the lack the time and resources to fulfil it.
small ships so far

Small vessel shipbuilding projects – Shipbuilding projects to equip the Royal Canadian Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard – National Shipbuilding Strategy – Sea – Defence and marine procurement – Buying and Selling – PSPC

Shipbuilding projects involving vessels with less than 1,000 tonnes of displacement.

www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca

I'm sure they'll make their pitches although from what I have been hearing is that a NSS refresh might also be coming especially with a potential government change. Keep in mind as well that some of the procurement projects we have in progress are not fully funded and Kingston Class replacement is not part of the strategic plan or even funded. Did you hear any funding for a Kingston Class replacement in the defence update? or even money to maintain the Kingston Class we have now? the money to maintain those ran out at year 25 for them and money to keep them going is coming from the CPF maintenance pot of money as I understand it.

 

[suffolkowner]

I'm sure they'll make their pitches although from what I have been hearing is that a NSS refresh might also be coming especially with a potential government change. Keep in mind as well that some of the procurement projects we have in progress are not fully funded and Kingston Class replacement is not part of the strategic plan or even funded. Did you hear any funding for a Kingston Class replacement in the defence update? or even money to maintain the Kingston Class we have now? the money to maintain those ran out at year 25 for them and money to keep them going is coming from the CPF maintenance pot of money as I understand it.

lots of difficult choices in the Navy with respect to upkeep and manning i suspect
6 AOPS
12 Kingstons
4 Victoria's
12 Halifax

with 1 AOR's coming online soon and another soonish and probably 10 yrs before the 1st CSC

 

[Stoker]

lots of difficult choices in the Navy with respect to upkeep and manning i suspect
6 AOPS
12 Kingstons
4 Victoria's
12 Halifax

with 1 AOR's coming online soon and another soonish and probably 10 yrs before the 1st CSC

Several Halifax Class will soon self pay off and soon enough you'll see 4 to 5 Kingston's be laid up. Not enough crew or funding.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Gift one Kingston to the Philippines and set up an agreement to hire their nationals for service in ours, with the Captain, XO and Chief Engineer being Canadian. Use the Kingstons and the program as pipeline to bring them into the CAF proper with incentives. If you want people, then your going to have to look outside our borders.

 

[Furniture]

Gift one Kingston to the Philippines and set up an agreement to hire their nationals for service in ours, with the Captain, XO and Chief Engineer being Canadian. Use the Kingstons and the program as pipeline to bring them into the CAF proper with incentives. If you want people, then your going to have to look outside our borders.

There are more Canadians today than at any other point in history. If the CAF can't attract them, we need to fix the CAF, not look for people from other places.

As far as the MCDVs go, I suspect the Philippines wouldn't want them. They exist in a very different threat environment from what the MCDV was designed for.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Gift one Kingston to the Philippines and set up an agreement to hire their nationals for service in ours, with the Captain, XO and Chief Engineer being Canadian. Use the Kingstons and the program as pipeline to bring them into the CAF proper with incentives. If you want people, then your going to have to look outside our borders.

I also read, somewhere, over there last few days - sorry, I've been a bit distracted with my own health issues - a proposal (I have no idea how serious) to allow Commonwealth citizens to join the CF and secure an expedited path to PR/citizen for themselves and immediate family members.

 

[Stoker]

Gift one Kingston to the Philippines and set up an agreement to hire their nationals for service in ours, with the Captain, XO and Chief Engineer being Canadian. Use the Kingstons and the program as pipeline to bring them into the CAF proper with incentives. If you want people, then your going to have to look outside our borders.

Or a reimaging of how we recruit at the fundamental level leveraging industry and state of the art trades training in modern facilities with the best training aids money can buy.

 

[Furniture]

I also read, somewhere, over there last few days - sorry, I've been a bit distracted with my own health issues - a proposal (I have no idea how serious) to allow Commonwealth citizens to join the CF and secure an expedited path to PR/citizen for themselves and immediate family members.

If I was emperor for the day I'd extend it to the EU, Japan, RoK, Singapore, etc...

Essentially, like-minded democratic nations that have high education standards and populations that might want the chance to come to Canada.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There are more Canadians today than at any other point in history. If the CAF can't attract them, we need to fix the CAF, not look for people from other places.

As far as the MCDVs go, I suspect the Philippines wouldn't want them. They exist in a very different threat environment from what the MCDV was designed for.

Actually the Kingston would be decent for playing bumper boats with the Chinese Coast Guard, which is a real problem right now.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If I was emperor for the day I'd extend it to the EU, Japan, RoK, Singapore, etc...

Essentially, like-minded democratic nations that have high education standards and populations that might want the chance to come to Canada.

I have met a number of Singaporeans, why they would lower their standards to come to Canada and join the CAF is beyond me.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Or a reimaging of how we recruit at the fundamental level leveraging industry and state of the art trades training in modern facilities with the best training aids money can buy.

Sadly I think my COA is more realistic.

 

[Stoker]

Sadly I think my COA is more realistic.

Except for the fact they will be seen as adding to the acute housing problem and they need to have somewhere to stay. Put them in the Q's?

 

[quadrapiper]

Several Halifax Class will soon self pay off and soon enough you'll see 4 to 5 Kingston's be laid up. Not enough crew or funding.

Since the frigates will be the fleet backbone for some time to come, would there be value in using the two most ragged ones as Fleet School annexes alongside Halifax and Esquimalt?

 

[dimsum]

If I was emperor for the day I'd extend it to the EU, Japan, RoK, Singapore, etc...

Essentially, like-minded democratic nations that have high education standards and populations that might want the chance to come to Canada.

Japan and ROK have demographics patterns that would make their countries very leery of allowing folks to emigrate.

 

[Furniture]

Japan and ROK have demographics patterns that would make their countries very leery of allowing folks to emigrate.

The governments might not love it, but people can still leave those places.

I have met a number of Singaporeans, why they would lower their standards to come to Canada and join the CAF is beyond me.

I've met Singaporeans as well, and have visited the place a few times. I'm guessing quite a few would enjoy the space Canada offers, even in places as "small" as Vancouver Island or Nova Scotia.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Except for the fact they will be seen as adding to the acute housing problem and they need to have somewhere to stay. Put them in the Q's?

 

[Furniture]

I liv

I lived in one of those, as did @SeaKingTacco for a time... I wouldn't wish that on anyone. (maybe Putin)

 

[childs56]

Unlikely to happen as it goes directly in the face of the goals of the NSS, which is to ensure long term operation and feasibility of the major shipyards by providing them with extended periods of work. Taking this work away from them and dumping it into smaller yards is directly fighting this goal.


They apparently have 5 construction births but that is not the bottleneck, it is the supply chain, staff and equipment in the yard. They can't build likely more than a pair of ships at one time with any amount of efficiency.

dont forget Davies just purchased Helsinki Shipyard and all their capability. Capacity may not be a problem for them.