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Manitoba bus stabbing/ beheading

Good2Golf said:
That some people have the nerve to critique that actions of others when they weren't there themselves to see what actually took place...that takes gall!  I find it almost laughable listening to someone state how they would have taken actions to stop the attack....those are just words, and I don't consider it anything more than bluster!  No one knows how they would truly act in such a situation until you were actually in such a situation.

Hear, hear! Very well-put, G2G.

I think we should all be grateful that only one person was killed in this incident and that the assailant was captured (thanks to the actions of the other passengers and bus driver). This was a tragedy, for sure, but it could have easily been a much greater tragedy.
 
Although, I too at first said, why was there nothing done by the other passengers, it also gave me food for thought on what else could have happened...

Woman, good Samaritan killed in Brampton stabbing
Posted: April 30, 2008, 4:31 PM by Melissa Leong
Crime
Peel Regional Police are investigating a multiple stabbing at a strip mall northwest of Toronto that left a woman and a Good Samaritan dead in a parking lot outside a pizza shop.

Police received a call at 12:35 p.m. Wednesday of a report of a group of people involved in a knife fight. It's believed a man fatally stabbed a woman. Police say a male passerby tried to intervene in the attack, but he was fatally stabbed as well.

After he was stabbed, the good Samaritan ran into a hair salon and died.

"I'm very upset because my worker is so just so upset," the owner of the salon told reporters. "He was the main witness, he saw the whole thing happen."  


Const. J.P. Valade confirmed a man and a woman had been killed and two others stabbed but could not provide further details of the case because it had been turned over to Ontario’s Special Investigations Unit. A man was taken to hospital in police custody after inflicting injuries on himself, police say.

A witness who works at A-One Pizza said he came back from a pizza delivery and saw a woman lying dead on the ground. Amrik Mander said he had never seen the woman before. He added that she looked like she was in her 30s or 40s. “There were six or seven ambulances and police everywhere,” he said.

Video footage shows police have surrounded and cordoned off the parking lot. The SIU is an independent body that investigates circumstances involving police and civilians which have resulted in serious injury.

Canwest News Service, with a file from Global News


Good Samaritan stabbed to death near Montreal police HQ
Last Updated: Thursday, August 24, 2006 | 9:15 AM ET
CBC News
A Good Samaritan was stabbed to death in Montreal Wednesday evening when he tried to help a woman who was being harassed on a street just steps away from police headquarters.

Police say the victim was riding his bicycle when he saw a man harassing a woman at St-Urbain Street and President Kennedy Avenue.

When he asked the man to stop, he was stabbed in the chest.

"[He] died in hospital minutes later," said police Const. Olivier Lapointe.

"We have a description of a suspect. He could be someone who is known to police — a homeless person," Lapointe said.

Police believe the woman who was being harassed may also have been homeless.

It was Montreal's 26th homicide of the year, compared to only 16 by this time last year.

Copyright © CBC 2008


Punch to head killed Good Samaritan near Edmonton bar
Victim was scrappy pipefitter who was out with friends, says dad
Last Updated: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 | 5:37 PM MT
CBC News
A man police said was trying to break up a fight outside a north Edmonton bar died from being punched in the head, the medical examiner said Tuesday.


Randy Lintner died after trying to stop a fight outside an Edmonton bar, said police.
(CBC)
Randy George Lintner, 46, died from head trauma as a direct result of a punch to the head, an autopsy concluded.

Police were called to a fight outside the Canadian Brewhouse near 127th Avenue and 97th Street just after midnight on Sunday. They found Lintner suffering from serious injuries. He died later in hospital.

Investigators said Tuesday it doesn't appear Lintner knew the people involved in the fight he was trying to stop.

Police have seized a vehicle believed to be the one attackers fled in, but they said they have not yet identified any possible suspects or established how many people were involved in the incident.

Lintner's father, Ken, told CBC News on Tuesday his son had always been a "scrapper." The pipefitter worked all over Alberta and had been staying with him since Christmas.


Paramedics found Lintner with serious injuries in the parking lot of an Edmonton bar.
(CBC)
On Saturday night, Lintner headed out with friends, telling his dad to leave the door unlocked because he would likely be home late. But when they arrived at the bar, they saw a fight in the parking lot.

According to what friends and police told Ken Linter, Randy yelled that he was going to call the police and walked over to try to break it up but was punched in the head.

Witnesses said it took several minutes for emergency crews to respond on Sunday.

Paramedics arrived within three minutes but had to wait about 20 minutes for police to arrive to secure the scene, which is standard procedure, officials said Monday. They said officers were tied up with several serious calls that came in at the same time.

But Ken Lintner said the delay doesn't matter because police told him his son was brain-dead almost immediately after being hit and falling to the pavement.

Randy Lintner, who leaves behind two sons in their 20s, is Edmonton's first homicide of 2008

Copyright © CBC 2008




In Ireland,

City's Good Samaritan dies after aiding pub attack man
By Kathryn Hayes
Monday June 09 2008

A GOOD Samaritan who went to the aid of a man who was being assaulted has died in hospital.

Mike Cronin (41) from Limerick city, suffered a serious head injury when he tried to intervene in a row near a pub in Limerick four weeks ago.

He was initially taken to the Mid Western Regional Hospital but was subsequently transferred to Cork University Hospital where he died at about 6.30 yesterday morning.

It is understood the 41-year-old went to the defence of a young man who was being assaulted near Quinlivan's pub, on the Hyde Road, between 10.30pm and 11pm on Sunday May 11.

Struck

But as he tried to help, he was struck and fell to the ground.

There were a number of witnesses at the scene who were questioned by gardai, but no arrests have been made since the incident.

Mr Cronin, originally from Coonagh on the outskirts of Limerick, had been living in the Hyde Road area of Limerick city.

Police said the incident took place between the traffic lights at Carey's Road junction and Colbert railway station on the Hyde Road.

Manslaughter

A post-mortem examination on Mr Cronin is due to be carried out today by State Pathologist Marie Cassidy. She will travel to Cork to carry out the tests. Depending on the results, the gardai may decide to upgrade their assault investigation to a murder or manslaughter inquiry.

"An intensive investigation was carried out following this incident and our inquiries will continue," said one source.

Anyone with any information is asked to contact Roxboro garda station on 061 214340.

A spokesperson for Cork University Hospital yesterday confirmed that Mr Cronin had died there yesterday morning.

Funeral arrangements are expected to be confirmed later today.

- Kathryn Hayes

©Independent.ie


Let's face it, by the time this degenerate had the attention of the other passengers, Tim Maclean was dead.  There was absolutely nothing the passengers could do but leave the bus, and hold him until the authorities arrived.  

Anyone who claims they would have done something other than what those passenger did, to be candid, are talking through the side of their mouths IMO.  At that point you are dealing with a crazed murder, with a knife and a victims head in hand.

dileas

tess


 
+ 1 Tess...

You cant save everyone all the time.... save the ones you know you can.... 

I like to think I've got a little bit of courage in me, but if I'm faced with a knife wielding Crazed person who may not feel pain or be there mentally, my first thought is not to go toe to toe.... its to get people and myself back and secure the area if possible... I think what the driver and those others on the bus did was pretty damned smart....

I'm not gonna armchair this one, because until I'm confronted with that situation, I wont know how I'm going to react.... I liked to think I would'nt loose my S#@$ in a mortar attack but until mothers day last year I never knew how it would pan out.... I'm glad I held my own, like most of the guys I was with in MSG, but until you're in the moment, and the S@#$ hits the fan, you really Do Not know what you will do. You can just hope, and assume that whatever training you might have gotten will kick in.

A bus full of Cops and Soldiers might have handled it differently.... this was a bus full of common folk, ordinary people who rarely encounter violence or aggression in their daily life, and who were on a sleepy red-eye bus trip through the praries.... I say Good on em for reacting as quickly and as well as they did. 

end rant.

- Tommy
 
Raise your hand if you were there, in that bus, at that time ..........

Yeah thats what i thought

::)
 
Folks,
  We can question the actions of everyone on the bus til we are blue in the face. Simple fact is, that it will not resurrect the victim. He is gone and finger pointing and calling the passengers and the driver cowards  will not change things one iota. They have to live with what happened. How many times have our guys have been forced to live with something they could not change or were ordered not to....something to ponder.
 
I believe the person demonstrating the greatest presence of mind, Canton--I think that was his surname--did the best thing possible by controlling the scene: stopping the vehicle, evacuating civilians, confining the perpetrator to the bus.  It's significant to me that he was (and might still be) a member of the CF. I think we civilians,  and you, his colleagues should be proud of that fact.  He acted quickly and decisively.

Given the close proximity of the victim to the perpetrator ... given the brutality and force used I doubt there was time to save the victim.

I grieve for the family ... but as some others on this thread mentioned, the criticism of  the witnesses  (mis)handling of the incident, especially coming from south of the border, has gone way too far...



 
What really gets my goat is when people start saying "Oh I would have handled that differently, or why didn't someone do this or that". Rubbish! Every situation is different and unless we were there personally we haven't a clue. I'm just thankfull that a few people had the presence of mind to do what they did to keep anyone else from getting hurt.
 
Good2Golf said:
Just something to think about, but for all those folks questioning the actions of the other passengers, in particular by describing them as "cowardly", the fact that the bus was evacuated in an effective manner and secured, and a group went back in to take further action speaks volumes.  Imagine another outcome: passengers get into a wrestling match with the assailant, more people are injured or killed, driver incapacitated or worse.

Ok lets try my version.

"Citizens restrain and disarm knife-weilding man, provide first aid to seriously injured man who was only stabbed 3 times, none fatally, until EMT and RCMP arrive.  Several passengers regarded as 'heros' by victims family.

For all of you that say they did the right thing by NOT intervening...I ask you all this:

Replace that poor 22 year old with the person you care about the most in your life; a child, your spouse, whoever.  Stop for a second, and think of this POS with his knife, driving it into their chest.   Now, I am one of those passengers, 6 feet tall, 235 lbs.  What do you want me to do?  Do my best to try to stop the lunatic, or run up the bus yelling "everyone off!"

Its pretty easy to sit back and say "job well done" if you are one of the people in this country that don't have the gonads to step up when someone really needs it. 

Who am I to say?  Let me ask this..who here that is weighing in here has ever been attacked by someone with a knife?

Yep, my hand is raised.  I was lucky enough to disarm the guy with the knife 'cause he was drunk, but it didn't stop him from trying to drive it into my throat more than once while he was screaming "I'm gonna ****** kill you!" over and over.  I sure would have appreciated some help, too.

So, for the comments about 'armchair generals', all of you who have never faced a blade coming your way at high speed with force and intent, maybe you'd feel different if you ever actually faced this yourself...and walked away.



 
Such a pity you weren't on the bus to save the day, then...  ::)
 
Good2Golf said:
Such a pity you weren't on the bus to save the day, then...  ::)

In this case, I've been there, done that.  Have you?

The use of sarcasm by you does not validate your opinion.  Having a different opinion than myself does not make you correct, or right.  Not does my opinion, in my case.  They are just opinions, but I am guessing you've never had someone trying to cut your throat with a knife, but I have.  I haven't landed a chopper before, ever.  Do you really care what my opinion is, knowing I haven't BTDT??

Again...replace the 22 year old victim with the person nearest and dearest to you, G2G, and tell me you'd want those people to do what they did, or in some of our opinions, what they didn't do.

I would have done something.  For that, you call me a fool.

For me, I think of those that COULD have (by virtue of size, strength, numbers, whatever) done something, and didn't, are cowards.  I'd prefer to die a man than live a coward.

Each to their own, though.
 
I don't understand why this is an argument.  Everyone has their own opinion on what happened, or how they would or would not have acted if they had been there.  Thankfully nobody here had to find out did they?  Arguing about this is completely off topic to what happened and takes people's attention from the real issue that a man is dead, for nothing.

I'm not nearly as concerned with everyone's accusations, arguments, or self defense opinions as I am with the guy who was killed.  And what's being done to ensure the *too vulgar to say on army.ca* spends the rest of his life in a cell.

Part of me thinks that his lawyer is going to go for the insanity plea and get him moved to a mental facility.  I mean what he did was defiantly psychotic but that does not mean he is "insane".  What do you think the odds of this defense being used are?


Anyways just wanted to state my opinion and to ask that question.  Hope someone can contribute to it before it gets LOCKED up on the grounds of treading water.


Cheers, Kyle
   
 
Eye In The Sky said:
In this case, I've been there, done that.  Have you?

No you were not. You were somwhere else doing something different in a different situation.
 
CDN Aviator said:
No you were not. You were somwhere else doing something different in a different situation.

Sure I wasn't on that bus;  I never said I was.  I did say, I was attacked by someone with a knife before.  And I sure wish I had of had some help during the initial scuffle.  It was not a situation where I knew it was going to happen.  It was quick and caught me off guard, thank god the guy was wrecked and his hand speed was off.

Folks, these are opinions.  Opinions are not facts, and therefore not something that can be right, or wrong, per say.  As we all have our opinions, we all also present, and stand by them, atleast until such time as someone presents a argument that changes our opinions.

I am not, nor have I said, that intervention WOULD have saved his life.  I am saying it COULD have.  I can't say when he was dead, it may have been the first, or last, strike with the weapon. 

Had I of been the guy in the seat in front of this, I can say, knowing myself, I would have tried to grab the guys arm, yelling at someone else to 'stop the fuckin bus and get everyone one off'.  Would it have saved the poor soul?  I have no idea and never will, but my argument is it might have.

Again, opinions; thats all.  If you can't stand by your own opinion, defend it even, whats the point in even having one? 
 
Eye In The Sky said:
In this case, I've been there, done that.  Have you?

The use of sarcasm by you does not validate your opinion.  Having a different opinion than myself does not make you correct, or right.  Not does my opinion, in my case.  They are just opinions, but I am guessing you've never had someone trying to cut your throat with a knife, but I have.  I haven't landed a chopper before, ever.  Do you really care what my opinion is, knowing I haven't BTDT??

Again...replace the 22 year old victim with the person nearest and dearest to you, G2G, and tell me you'd want those people to do what they did, or in some of our opinions, what they didn't do.

I would have done something.  For that, you call me a fool.

For me, I think of those that COULD have (by virtue of size, strength, numbers, whatever) done something, and didn't, are cowards.  I'd prefer to die a man than live a coward.

Each to their own, though.


Bullshit......the only reason you are alive is because your assailent wasn't proficient. Only in the movies does someone with a knife, and the ability to use it properly, get disarmed by an unarmed person.


Your attitude would have only made a terrible situation worse.................
 
If your eyes are closed and your MP3 player is on, and the assailant gets one or two free plunges of the
knife into your neck, you will not survive.  Especially not on a highway 20km outside town.

 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Bullshit......the only reason you are alive is because your assailent wasn't proficient. Only in the movies does someone with a knife, and the ability to use it properly, get disarmed by an unarmed person.


Your attitude would have only made a terrible situation worse.................

You know this to be a FACT do you?  Being 1) you have no idea of the situation 2) you are passing your opinion off as fact, I'll clear this up and say the only reason I am alive is because it was a full moon and I caught a glint off the blade as he raised it over his head, but thanks for your input.

I've seen people with knives disarmed before, who knew how to use them, and it wasn't in any movie.  It was outside Micheals Pizzaria back home. 

 
old medic said:
If your eyes are closed and your MP3 player is on, and the assailant gets one or two free plunges of the
knife into your neck, you will not survive.  Especially not on a highway 20km outside town.

I can't comment on anything in the medical side of this debate, but I thought he had been stabbing him in the chest initially, not the neck...not that that is much better.
 
Yea, OK.

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2006/03/gun-vs-knife.html

http://www.policeone.com/news_internal.asp?view=113907
 
Its no doubt this piece of @#$! should be dead in any horrific way people can think of and he'd deserve it, but its done..this is getting pretty heated..theres nothing any of us can do about it so why are you at each others throats...?
 
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