Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????

[ArmyRick]

My gut feeling is the Trudeau Liberals will not win next election.

People, even some die hard Liberals I personally know, Are asking the party to please, please replace Trudeau with a new and female leader (or someone who identifies as female? Bad Rick).

He can only "cry wolf" so many times. Cry wolf in his case is to label the Conservatives or anyone who disagrees or question his decisions as racist, misogynist, bigots, bully, transphobe, anti-climate science, etc.

Add to that his past ethical blunders and tiring fan base.

PP on the other hand (why do people think he is a poor choice? Totally think people who say that are closet liberal apologist or NDP IMO) speaks very clearly on financial management, basic economics, accountability (in liberal terms somehow translates to hate speech), facilitating private business growth (I am a farmer and thus a business man, Trudeau has done us NO favours).

 

[Brad Sallows]

PP doesn't send the right social signals.

Of course, the right social signals don't keep the heat and lights on, and there is no heat and light fairy that does so, either.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My gut feeling is the Trudeau Liberals will not win next election.

I sense a poll coming on....

 

[Remius]

I sense a poll coming on....

Plenty of those out already.

It will boil down to who Canadians dislike more.

 

[Lumber]

The only benefit to another Trudeau term will be the acceleration of Western Canadian autonomy.

An object fixed in position can't accelerate.

 

[Lumber]

The only benefit to another Trudeau term will be the acceleration of Western Canadian autonomy.

Actually, I'm going to hit this one again.

Why do you see the "autonomy of Western Canada" as a benefit? Why do you think the west should split from Canada? And you can't say "because Trudeau and the liberals and central Canada etc.", because that would be incongruent with the premise of your statement.

Sure, I could get the position that "separating from the rest of Canada" would be better than "living under the yoke of the LPC/Trudeau/Ontario-Quebec-Laurentian Elites", but that's not what your statement says.

Your statement implies that the separation of western Canada from the rest of Canada would be a good thing regardless of who's in power in Ottawa.

Do you want the West to separate from Canada? Wouldn't you rather there be a better government in Ottawa, one that keeps the country together and more equitable terms?

 

[Kirkhill]

Actually, I'm going to hit this one again.

Why do you see the "autonomy of Western Canada" as a benefit? Why do you think the west should split from Canada? And you can't say "because Trudeau and the liberals and central Canada etc.", because that would be incongruent with the premise of your statement.

Sure, I could get the position that "separating from the rest of Canada" would be better than "living under the yoke of the LPC/Trudeau/Ontario-Quebec-Laurentian Elites", but that's not what your statement says.

Your statement implies that the separation of western Canada from the rest of Canada would be a good thing regardless of who's in power in Ottawa.

Do you want the West to separate from Canada? Wouldn't you rather there be a better government in Ottawa, one that keeps the country together and more equitable terms?

Sometimes the heart overrules the head. Eventually the aggravation endured can overcome the perceived benefits and people just walk away.

If the Easterners wanted to ease Western angst then, in my opinion, a simple solution would be to open up the energy corridor from Prince Rupert to Churchill.

Mine hydrocarbons and export them.
Mine uranium and refine it locally sufficiently to run local reactors to power the extraction industry.

Return excess carbon back to the ground it came from. If you're not growing trees, wheat and beef fast enough.
Return waste uranium back to the hard rock from which it was extracted.

And with all the revenue generated enrich the native communities and develop the North. Secure Canada's estates.


As to Trudeau quitting.... he is unlikely to announce retirement plans 2 years in advance. The knives would be out immediately making the next two years extremely painful.

 

[QV]

Actually, I'm going to hit this one again. Hit away.

Why do you see the "autonomy of Western Canada" as a benefit? Why do you think the west should split from Canada? And you can't say "because Trudeau and the liberals and central Canada etc.", because that would be incongruent with the premise of your statement. I didn't say "split". I think Western Canada should have the same level of autonomy as Quebec. I'm a strong proponent of the separation of powers.

Sure, I could get the position that "separating from the rest of Canada" would be better than "living under the yoke of the LPC/Trudeau/Ontario-Quebec-Laurentian Elites", but that's not what your statement says. You jumped to a conclusion I did not state.

Your statement implies that the separation of western Canada from the rest of Canada would be a good thing regardless of who's in power in Ottawa. Again you're jumping.

Do you want the West to separate from Canada? Wouldn't you rather there be a better government in Ottawa, one that keeps the country together and more equitable terms? A reasonable inference would be that another government other than Trudeau would decelerate Western Canadian autonomy.

sigh

 

[YZT580]

PP doesn't send the right social signals.

Of course, the right social signals don't keep the heat and lights on, and there is no heat and light fairy that does so, either.

neither did Harper. Sometimes being noticeably different is all that is needed

 

[Navy_Pete]

PP doesn't send the right social signals.

Of course, the right social signals don't keep the heat and lights on, and there is no heat and light fairy that does so, either.

PP doesn't send the right policy signals. Harper had detailed plans to do what he wanted to accomplish (and did, with a certain level of ruthlesness I admire in a way for getting things done). PP has pithy rhetoric and the few ideas he's floated are either not within his authority (firing BoC head) or stupid (bitcoin).

I would be really happy with boring but competent from any major party.

I think a Rona Ambrose, or Jane Philpott in 2025 would have been awesome. The LPC appears to be grooming Chrystia Freeland, who, politics aside, seems like an asset to any organization, which I would be okay with compared to the current crop, but maybe there is a dark horse somewhere in cabinet or in the backbenches.

 

[ArmyRick]

PP doesn't send the right policy signals. Harper had detailed plans to do what he wanted to accomplish (and did, with a certain level of ruthlesness I admire in a way for getting things done). PP has pithy rhetoric and the few ideas he's floated are either not within his authority (firing BoC head) or stupid (bitcoin).

I would be really happy with boring but competent from any major party.

I think a Rona Ambrose, or Jane Philpott in 2025 would have been awesome. The LPC appears to be grooming Chrystia Freeland, who, politics aside, seems like an asset to any organization, which I would be okay with compared to the current crop, but maybe there is a dark horse somewhere in cabinet or in the backbenches.

and the record number of conservative memberships purchased during PP run? I think your lumping PP in with the wrong crowd.

Trudeau has pretty much used up his aces. Can't help but notice the Liberal retreat he mentions helping low income Canadians with rent. I see that as part of another "voter bribe" package. WE may head for a fall election yet.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

and the record number of conservative memberships purchased during PP run? I think your lumping PP in with the wrong crowd.

Trudeau has pretty much used up his aces. Can't help but notice the Liberal retreat he mentions helping low income Canadians with rent. I see that as part of another "voter bribe" package. WE may head for a fall election yet.

Hopefully he'll keep getting asked over and over 'It's been seven years, so why haven't you done xxxxxxxx promise yet?"

 

[Lumber]

sigh

I'm not jumping, I'm just following your statement to its logical conclusion. If you say that it would be a benefit for this apparently already in progress process to accelerate, accelerate, then it would be logical to infer that you are also happy (i.e. supportive of) the non-accelerated version of that process. Ergo, I may have been "jumping" to the conclusion that you meant "split" (though I don't think so, as I'll allude to below), but it was not a jump to assume you support the "autonomization" of the west (whatever that means) from the rest of Canada.

Quebec doesn't have any real autonomy. The division of powers is the same for Quebec as every other province, they just exercise their authorities differently (civil law vs common law, for example). So what exactly is it you think the west should be able to do that they can't do now (and that Quebec CAN do now?).

 

[brihard]

sigh

I’ll bite. What specific powers or authorities does Quebec uniquely have that the western provinces don’t, and which you’d like to see them gain?

 

[Navy_Pete]

and the record number of conservative memberships purchased during PP run? I think your lumping PP in with the wrong crowd.

Trudeau has pretty much used up his aces. Can't help but notice the Liberal retreat he mentions helping low income Canadians with rent. I see that as part of another "voter bribe" package. WE may head for a fall election yet.

Collectively between PP, Charest and Patrick Brown they are claiming to have signed up about 600k members, which is more than the total of members in the entire CPC (with PP at 310k, and Charest and PB at 150k each).

Even so, there are over 17M eligible voters, with 10.5M+ actual votes last time. 300k members isn't insignificant, but unless they are new voters to the CPC (vice people that previously voted CPC) in areas that previously went LPC none of that translates into more seats.

The vast majority of Canadians have no official party affiliation, so unless PP starts attracting voters and flipping seats, makes no material difference. He can take 100% of the votes in existing CPC ridings and still be not in power.

From that perspective, Patrick Brown at least was focused on the GTA, which gives a path to forming government. Appealing to the existing base is great for the leadership campaign, and seems like he'll be basically annointed, but I don't see any real plans that would appeal to the centrist voters once you get past his platitudes. The existing JT platitudes is probably enough to keep people voting the way they did last time, so if they provide a real leader with actual vision and this is the best the CPC has to offer it's the status quo.

 

[QV]

I’ll bite. What specific powers or authorities does Quebec uniquely have that the western provinces don’t, and which you’d like to see them gain?

They have a provincial police service, collect their income taxes, have the QPP... I'd like the western provinces to go down those roads.

I did say I would like to see the west have the same level of autonomy as Quebec. I did not say: "split", "separate", "have powers only Quebec has".

You and Lumber are overzealous in your inferences.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

They have a provincial police service, collect their income taxes, have the QPP... I'd like the western provinces to go down those roads.

What specific powers or authorities does Quebec uniquely have

That was not an answer to his question....

Sounds more like you mean to say you'd like the Westrern Govts. to actually do something??

 

[Halifax Tar]

That was not an answer to his question....

Sounds more like you mean to say you'd like the Westrern Govts. to actually do something??

Their ability to veto, actual or political, and transfer payments. I think those are two big dissatisfiers from the West towards Que. But I am neither a Westerner or Quebecois.

Personally, I think its time to call Quebec's bluff and take some FPTP electoral power away from them. Even it out across the country, regardless of population density, so no region can hold the rest hostage.

 

[QV]

That was not an answer to his question....

Sounds more like you mean to say you'd like the Westrern Govts. to actually do something??

His question contained an incorrect inference.

But yes, I would like the western governments to act a helluva lot more like Quebec.

 

[Remius]

They have a provincial police service, collect their income taxes, have the QPP... I'd like the western provinces to go down those roads.

I did say I would like to see the west have the same level of autonomy as Quebec. I did not say: "split", "separate", "have powers only Quebec has".

You and Lumber are overzealous in your inferences.

Those are all things they can get or do if they want. Why would a liberal government accelerate that?

Seems to me that a western friendly CPC government would be in a better position to enable that.