Leave - Recall and Other Issues [MERGED]

[Eye In The Sky]

I find it quite amusing that some people in my office still have a CF 100 pdf that they fill out when all you need to do is go in to Monitor Mass, select the dates you plan on making a leave pass for, then create the leave pass. You can fill in/modify all the details necessay (type of days, etc) and even add notes and comments for that "remarks/authority" section (I usually put in my licence plate if I will be driving somewhere)!

My unit MM leave passes are required.  No "legacy" CF-100s are accepted.  AFAIK, this is because MM will track changes in the parade state? 

 

[Bzzliteyr]

My unit MM leave passes are required.  No "legacy" CF-100s are accepted.  AFAIK, this is because MM will track changes in the parade state? 

I believe yes, it puts it in the parade state. Again, how many units use MM to the max of its potential?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I believe yes, it puts it in the parade state. Again, how many units use MM to the max of its potential?

I have no idea, but we should start.  As DAP mentioned, I recall being made aware that leave passes on paper will become a thing of the past and that might create some problems while saving paper printed;  we have a leave pass process that involves more than just 'recommended/approved' signatures.

 

[dapaterson]

I have no idea, but we should start.  As DAP mentioned, I recall being made aware that leave passes on paper will become a thing of the past and that might create some problems while saving paper printed;  we have a leave pass process that involves more than just 'recommended/approved' signatures.

But how much of that process is value added?  If Bloggins submits an electronic request that gets reviewed and approved, and that information gets pushed out electronically to status reports, we've eliminated clerk work, saved time and saved paper.

Right now we are wedded to paper because it's viewed as the only "real" or official document.  If we did better Information Management (supported by enabling Information Technology) we could simplify processes and eliminate lots of paper, and lots of low to no value added work.

 

[Lumber]

I believe yes, it puts it in the parade state. Again, how many units use MM to the max of its potential?

My last unit, we used it a lot. We tracked individuals daily movements (dental appointments, referesher trg, leave, etc.).

At my new unit, only me and the Chief Clerk have accounts, and he doesn't even know how to use it (I had to log-in using his account to make my account).

 

[Eye In The Sky]

For us, it is a necessary part that wouldn't apply to anyone not in a flying slot.

 

[Haggis]

Right now we are wedded to paper because it's viewed as the only "real" or official document.  If we did better Information Management (supported by enabling Information Technology) we could simplify processes and eliminate lots of paper, and lots of low to no value added work.

The only recent (i.e. 3 years ago) use that I have had for a paper leave pass in North America was when crossing the border to the U.S.  When asked by USCBP what I did for a living I replied that I was Canadian military.  The officer asked if I was "on orders" or on leave.  I replied I was on leave and he asked to see my leave pass.  I produced it, he reviewed it and, in seconds, we parted ways.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

The only recent (i.e. 3 years ago) use that I have had for a paper leave pass in North America was when crossing the border to the U.S.  When asked by USCBP what I did for a living I replied that I was Canadian military.  The officer asked if I was "on orders" or on leave.  I replied I was on leave and he asked to see my leave pass.  I produced it, he reviewed it and, in seconds, we parted ways.

Interesting, my interactions with border folks is handing over my mil ID when I hand ove rmy passport to assist with things. this usually results in a war story or two and I'm on my way.

 

[Pusser]

On the naval side of things, that four hours was always from the point where you were contacted, not the start of a general recall.  If they never got a hold of you, you obviously never made it in and as far as I know, there were never any consequences for that.  I think the four hours may also have been based on the amount of time it took to flash up the boilers. It didn't matter how fast everybody got on board, it took a minimum of four hours before the ship was going to move regardless.  This no longer applies in our modern fleet of  gas turbines and diesel engines.

I am curious as to what has actually happened here.  The OP seems to have stopped responding.  A very good point has been made that it is only the CO who has authority to recall somebody from leave (and any approved absence from a place of duty is "leave" - no leave pass required) and he/she must order it personally.  If that is not the case, the amount of time it took the member to respond to an unlawful command is irrelevant.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Was that for any/all ships?  Ready duty ship?  I always assumed there was something similar for the RDS that we use for our Ready postures.

 

[Haggis]

Interesting, my interactions with border folks is handing over my mil ID when I hand ove rmy passport to assist with things. this usually results in a war story or two and I'm on my way.

There was a long line up that day.  My last trip across (August - as a civvy law enforcement type now) resulted in exactly that - in both directions.

 

[Pusser]

Was that for any/all ships?  Ready duty ship?  I always assumed there was something similar for the RDS that we use for our Ready postures.

Ready Duty Ship would normally have tighter restrictions - e.g. if you aren't going to be near a phone, you would need to contact the ship every four hours to see if there was a recall; only 10% of ship's company could be on out-of-area leave (i.e. not available for recall); certain folks (e.g. CO, XO, COXN, CERA) could not be on out-of-area leave; etc.

 

[mariomike]

Ready Duty Ship would normally have tighter restrictions - e.g. if you aren't going to be near a phone, you would need to contact the ship every four hours to see if there was a recall;

I read some are expected ( required? ) to be near a phone, "The argument of my superior was that things are different because we are in the emergency services (i.e. base fire hall), and that the CF needs a reliable way of getting ahold of us when off-duty or on leave."

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Argument doesn't not make policy or regs though.  The QR & O, DAOD and Leave Policy Manual trump 'arguments'.

 

[mariomike]

The QR & O, DAOD and Leave Policy Manual trump 'arguments'.

Not to disagree with you or  the QR & O, DAOD and Leave Policy Manual, but, "Ordered to "get a phone"." made for an interesting four-page discussion / "argument". 

 

[George Wallace]

Argument doesn't not make policy or regs though.  The QR & O, DAOD and Leave Policy Manual trump 'arguments'.

Obviously not a "Cold Warrior" and more of the "Barrackroom Lawyer".    [Xp

[

 

[Pusser]

Not to disagree.

Nonetheless, "Ordered to "get a phone"." made for an interesting four-page discussion / "argument". 

The basic assumption in my experience is that everyone has a phone (and is rapidly becoming that everyone has a cell phone) and is expected to be contactable.  However, everyone has to be reasonable about it as well.  I don't think we could actually require someone to have a phone, but we can require a certain level of contact.  Thus, if you cannot be contacted by telephone within a reasonable timeframe, it is not unreasonable to expect you to call your unit periodically to see if you're required.  This is of course, situation dependent.  All of this can be trumped by the fact that crap happens.  The world does not fall apart because a handful of people don't get contacted during a unit recall.

When I did the Naval Operations Course years ago, on the subject of recall, we were given the following options:

1)  contact everyone at home by telephone;
2)  hoist flag "P"
3)  contact local radio/TV stations and ask them to broadcast
4)  contact local theatres and ask them to interrupt performances to make an announcement
5)  send shore patrol to know local hangouts
6)  send someone to members' houses

I kid you not  [

 

[Lumber]

Obviously not a "Cold Warrior" and more of the "Barrackroom Lawyer".    [Xp

[

In the Navy, we call them 'Lower-Deck Lawyers".

"the ship’s company will be subject to recall only when the ship is designated as Ready Duty Ship or there is an increase in the Force Protection Level; however, a recall may be initiated at any other time." SSO AL9 MC4.

and

"RDS [ready duty ship] personnel absent from their normal residence/recall number for a period of more than four hours shall contact the ship every four hours to verify if the ship’s company has been recalled." MARLANTORD 5-1

I don't think you need a legal policy or regulation to determine the "maximum time to report in". If you're recalled, the amount of time should be as little as it required. If you're out having dinner, it's the time required to pay your bill, drive home, drop off the wife, and get to the unit.

Further to this, COs are well within their perogative to amplify exisiting regulations and orders through RO, SOs, and SOPs. If the CO of a unit says that any personnel going out of area (such as flying all the way to Toronto from Calgary on a weekend) are required to obtain permission from their chain of command fill out a leave pass, then that is a legal order and you can suffer the consequences if you choose to ignore it.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Obviously not a "Cold Warrior" and more of the "Barrackroom Lawyer".    [Xp

[

OR someone who thinks (all) leadership should follow the policies in place.  Otherwise, I am disobeying instructions in the QR & 0.  Our job is to follow and enforce official, published policy, whether we agree with it, or not.  :2c:

 

[CountDC]

interesting reading to say the least.

We use MM for leave passes and export to the outlook calender.

What I haven't seen anyone mention here is the unit recall status.  For example I am currently on a 72 hour recall notice so my unit should be able to reach me within that period.  If that gets shortened then the recall process is initiated to notify everyone they are now on a 24 hour recall (or whatevery it is changed to).  I always thought 72 hour was the norm status for everyone in the CF and was why we used to submit leave passes when leaving the local area for weekends.  Once contact is made the time to get in is as fast as you can but at XXXXhr as the latest based on your situation.

Unit cell phones and duty phones are not the same thing and you have to be careful about mixing them up.  A duty phone means that - you are on duty and should be answering anytime it rings.  I believe there is a little blurb in the leave manual on duty phones that warns units about them as you can not be on duty 24/7 (and no we are not paid to be, we are paid to be available 24/7 with work hours assigned based on a 40 hour work week (I know - HA)).  Unit cell phones can be given out (I have one) so if they have to call you then can but you don't have to jump and answer.  I let mine go to the messages if outside work hours and check it occassionally for messages.  Basically it replaces our home/pers cell phone with a phone number the unit can give out to everyone and will be the same for every person that fills your position (I get posted, my replacement will have the same contact number).

Regulations such as QR&Os can be expanded on by the C of C as long as it does not take away entitlements so if your boss says the policy for your section is leave passes will be submitted there is no issue there.