'It's time to consolidate NDHQ' & 'DND to take-over Nortel Campus' (Merged threads)

[vonGarvin]

I have to clarify my previous post.  It's just that compared to the sacrifices that our soldiers, sailors and air force personnel make on a continual basis (being away from home, last minute travel orders, braving the elements on yet another seemingly pointless exercise, getting shot at, etc), a longer commute pales in comparison.

 

[McG]

... The light rail system that's been on the drawing boards only extends from Blair Station to Tunney's Pasture.

While that has been the plan, if the city does not actually build something that runs from Place d'Orleans to the Sens games, the city has already out-grown the railsystem that is not even built yet.

If, and it's a Big IF, DND can convince cabinet to allow everyone to move to one campus - including the Gatineau, QC contingent - then it is a major relocation of one of the National Capital Region's biggest workforces.

This is also exactly what DND and the CF need.

 

[George Wallace]

All this in a city who's motto should be "The City that Won't".  Light Rail has been discussed for decades.  Tunnels are an on again/off again discusion every decade or so.  Expansion of the Queensway (Hwy 417) won't happen as all the communities and Wards that it passes through won't accept expansion in "their backyards".  A Ring Road would make sense in any city but Ottawa, where "the Green Space must be protected" and "we don't want a highway going through the center of the suburbs" (which will soon be down to Cornwall).  A city where paying penalties for cancelling contracts a la the EH 101 is the norm.  Where rumours are already flying of DND building a super complex in the north of Gatineau to appease Quebec and Gatineau. 

Remember; DND was supposed to move out to the JDS Uniphase Complex off Prince of Wales Drive and that didn't happen.  The Mounties moved in instead.

Yup!  I'll believe it when I see it. 

 

[McG]

I knew that I'd said it before: 

… and I still believe that NDHQ would be significantly more efficient if it were all in one city in a single building (or at least on a single campus of a few buildings).

 

[57Chevy]

Centralizing/Consolidating/Cutting Costs is the much greater challenge.

The move also coincides well with the likes of other Military Establishments
like the Pentagon. :nod:

As you say E.R. "If" is a big word  ;D
Creating work and new job opportunities is also a major government responsibility.
Therefore, injecting funds for light rail transport, roads, and other systems is good for
the economy in the short....and long term.

 

[Occam]

Technoviking, a good number of those Orleans residents who would be affected by a major relocation of workplace would be military personnel - like me.

The minute these plans become official, I'll be able to watch property value in Orleans plummet.  I wonder how much success I'll have claiming a depressed market in Ottawa for the purposes of 100% Home Equity Assistance?  :rage:

While that has been the plan, if the city does not actually build something that runs from Place d'Orleans to the Sens games, the city has already out-grown the railsystem that is not even built yet.

I'm with you, but I'd go one better and take it all the way to Rockland.  In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

[vonGarvin]

Silly me.  I thought that the role of the CF had something to do with the defence of Canada, not with maintenance of property values.  :


Tell it to the guys who moved from Winnipeg to Shilo, or from Calgary and Victoria to Edmonton, or the guys who moved from London to Petawawa.....

 

[Occam]

Silly me.  I thought that the role of the CF had something to do with the defence of Canada, not with maintenance of property values.  :

Does the role of the CF also include financially screwing its members?  Assure me that I'll get at least what I paid for my house when I have to move from Orleans in a couple of years, and I'll reconsider my position.

Tell it to the guys who moved from Winnipeg to Shilo, or from Calgary and Victoria to Edmonton, or the guys who moved from London to Petawawa.....

You'd have a hard time convincing me that those in Winnipeg, Calgary, Victoria(!) and London had a hard time selling their houses at or better than what they paid for them.

 

[George Wallace]

Ottawa/Gatineau is a totally disfunctional pair of cities.  There are too many levels of Government involved in even the most trivial of decisions.  Ottawa, The City that Won't, is hamstrung by the City Council, the Federal Government, the Provincial Government, the City of Gatineau Council, the Quebec Government, and the biggest hurdle to get past, the National Capital Commission.  Then of course there is the "Old Money" families who control other faucets of development in the city, not to mention the Unions, ie. OC Transpo's union. 

Grandiose plans are not unusual.  What is unusual is if all of these parties can get together in agreement, or at least the parties that are involved can agree. 

All of this does have an affect on whether or not DND will move/consolidate in the Nortel Campus.  There are legitimate transportation concerns.  There are the poor imaginations of current city and Regional planners in their plans for future development.  There are the numerous Left Wing and Environmental Lobbyists who are holding up development of Road and Rail transportation systems. 

The Nortel Campus may look good, as did the JDS Uniphase Campus off Prince of Wales Drive, but I imagine the same excuses will arise as to such a move. 

Will the city run Light Rail out to Shirley's Bay on the existing line, or will that be one hundred years in the making, long after the line has been turned into the Trans Canada Walking Trail? 

 

[muskrat89]

Wow. Almost every company I have worked for has moved at one point or another. No one cared how it affected my commute, nor did I expect them to. If it was best for the financial and operational well-being of the company, it was ultimately a benefit to the employees. I say that with the full understanding of the logistics involved with commuting to work - my one way trip is an hour to hour and a half, depending on weather, accidents, etc.

 

[Armymedic]

Does the role of the CF also include financially screwing its members? 

Technically no, but if you talk to literally hundreds of people who have had be posted in the last decade you would find that the institution really doesn't give a rats behind about the welfare of any specific individual member, regardless whether it is financial, family or health related. When it comes down to it all, WE individuals are replaceable, and the institution must do what is best for the institution.

Sorry to sound crass, but that is the reality.

And as muskrat points out, what is best for an institution (company, country, etc.) is that if it benefits the institution it will, ultimately benefit the employees.

 

[Occam]

the institution really doesn't give a rats behind about the welfare of any specific individual member, regardless whether it is financial, family or health related.

And when the change in question affects hundreds, perhaps thousands of military and civilian employees?...

 

[George Wallace]

I imagine the same criteria that stopped a developer from building such a complex in Orleans, it being near the flight path to Ottawa International, is not being applied here, if it does become a serious choice.  I always look down onto the Nortel Campus when flying out of Ottawa. 

 

[54/102 CEF]

Won`t happen until some party wins a majority

 

[Armymedic]

I hear you, and empathize with you.

When you get posted away from Ottawa region, and have to sell your home at a reduced price, [sarcasm] Brookfield will do its absolute best to ensure you receive the financial remuneration you deserve from the institution. [/sarcasm].

Like I said....your personal inconvenience is not their concern.

BTW, one of my troops just was posted to Pet from Victoria. His house in Pet costs about the same as the losses he had to take on the house he sold in Victoria. Not a small sum of $$$ to chew on.

 

[Journeyman]

And when the change in question affects hundreds, perhaps thousands of military and civilian employees?...

Oh, you mean like....

.... the guys who moved from Winnipeg to Shilo, or from Calgary and Victoria to Edmonton, or the guys who moved from London to Petawawa.....

NDHQ. Think Toronto's self-centred fixation.....only with uniforms

 

[Edward Campbell]

The first HUGE hurdle is to get the Government go change a policy that says 25% of each and every major government department or agency is in Québec. Unless DND is allowed to be exempted then a relocation will not, because it cannot, reap all the benefits it should.

A proper, full, relocation to Moodie Drive – with space to spare for e.g. large Project Management Offices and for nearby offices for e.g. contractors – can save time,  money and people and can make day-by-day staff work more efficient and effective.

But, if the relocation is incomplete then it may waste more than it saves.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Wow. Almost every company I have worked for has moved at one point or another. No one cared how it affected my commute, nor did I expect them to. If it was best for the financial and operational well-being of the company, it was ultimately a benefit to the employees. I say that with the full understanding of the logistics involved with commuting to work - my one way trip is an hour to hour and a half, depending on weather, accidents, etc.

Since I don't know the companies you worked for or your place in their hierarchies, it would be impossible for me to comment on what you knew about the factors they considered when planning those moves.  I've been involved three times in the proposal/planning process for such moves (twice for civilian companies and once for a reserve unit - such a scenario was even used for one of the exercises we had to do when I attended Staff School).  In all cases the disruption to employees was considered (whether they knew about it or not).  Yes, ultimately it came down to a decision of what was best for the organization; but staff disruption has an operational effect and financial cost all its own.  By the way, the proposed move for that reserve unit was cancelled because of the resulting disruption (primarily inadequate public transport and increased travelling time) for the part-time members of the unit.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Remember; DND was supposed to move out to the JDS Uniphase Complex off Prince of Wales Drive and that didn't happen.  The Mounties moved in instead.

Yup!  I'll believe it when I see it.

Or when DND was going to buy the hotel on Elgin for troopies on TD, Restricted Postings, etc. As soon as the rest of the hotels heard about it, they complained and the deal got shot down.

 

[muskrat89]

Since I don't know the companies you worked for or your place in their hierarchies, it would be impossible for me to comment on what you knew about the factors they considered when planning those moves.  I've been involved three times in the proposal/planning process for such moves (twice for civilian companies and once for a reserve unit - such a scenario was even used for one of the exercises we had to do when I attended Staff School).  In all cases the disruption to employees was considered (whether they knew about it or not).

Management of operations and operational planning is how I make my living, and have for most of  my adult life. There are consequences (known, assumed, and unknown) for every operational and/or planning decision made. Have I ever consolidated a site the size of NDHQ? Of course not. That being said, if the financial and operational best interests are met by the organization, moving to a new location, so be it. Planners need to be considerate of employees and other stakeholders, but shouldn't necessarily focus their broad-based decisions on how it might affect the employees bus-routes or home values. Obviously (if I understand your example of a reserve unit) if the move makes it impractical or impossible for the majority of members to attend, and there is no comparable labor pool in the new location, then that should be a determining factor. A decision which effectively makes it impossible for employees to get to work is different than a decision which increases the challenges associated with commutes. Employees will decide as individuals whether it is "worth it" or not.

To demonstrate my "in my lane-ness", my current position is at a Medical School which is a part of one of Arizona's three major Universities. In addition to being responsible for most of the Campus' operations, I am also responsible for emergency and disaster planning, as well as COOP (Continuity Of Operations Planning). Our pandemic planning  for example, has to account for absenteeism and the possibility of disrupted public transportation;  yes I am aware of factors which influence operations.