Islam and Western Society

[jollyjacktar]

building on the Malay story, I just have to look at my wife's family photo album, you can see the turn to more conservative dress and suppression of Malay culture, which used to be very relaxed, women wearing sarongs that did not cover the shoulder or western style outfits. Islam has been there since the at least the 1400's, the Malays took Islam and "Malaysianized" it. Now the Saudi and gulf States are paying for the mosques and Imans , but requiring a strict interpretation based around whabbism.

I've just about whabbied enough of their bullshit outside of the ME.  I wish the host countries in the West would deport all of their trouble making assessment back to the countries of origin.  Japan has it right.

 

[AbdullahD]

Perhaps a disorder like Battered Woman Syndrome  might offer some clues as to why some women "choose" to wear this stuff?
In some cases would suggesting a woman could just take it off be the same as suggesting a woman in an abusive relationship can just leave?

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner Jarnhamar. As a reason, not an excuse, I will tell you I worked darn near 40 hours in three days and honestly.. I did not give it any thought, nor was I sure I actually needed or wanted to reply due to the fact this is definetly rhetorical due to your use of the word 'some'.

Battered woman syndrome is something I had to google, albeit I suspected the meaning of it and now I have a name for all these people who stay in or keep finding abusive partners (thanks btw). Now in my opinion an abused woman (partner), falls under physical or psychological abuse and the psychological sometimes being far worse. So any woman who is forced to wear a burka/niqab is abused and oppressed, same with men forced to grow beards.

My issue or point I wish to bring up is; why is it when Islam or Muslims are involved the default position, seem to be the worst one? When we look at relationships in general, we assume the majority, are healthy stable ones. Yet, with Muslims it seems a very large minority or small Majority are dysfunctional, on any given issue. Now I realize you did not make that arguement directly, but since it came up (indirectly), I would guess it is an assumption held by society at large. Don't worry before anyone brings up a wackload of links, I will recognize media and then bad press Muslims and Islam get, but why can't people make a difference between the nutters and their neighbors....

But I think the vast Majority of Burka/Niqab wearing ladies are doing it voluntarily. My arguement is this essentially, Muslims are human too. If the vast majority of human men think forcing women to act or dress in a certain way is wrong, wouldn't it make sense that the vast majority of Human Muslim Men.. feel the same way? Because, at the end of the day, we are humans and we love our families too.

Abdullah

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner Jarnhamar. As a reason, not an excuse, I will tell you I worked darn near 40 hours in three days

Maximum effective range of an excuse is 0 meters 

My issue or point I wish to bring up is; why is it when Islam or Muslims are involved the default position, seem to be the worst one? When we look at relationships in general, we assume the majority, are healthy stable ones. Yet, with Muslims it seems a very large minority or small Majority are dysfunctional, on any given issue. Now I realize you did not make that arguement directly, but since it came up (indirectly), I would guess it is an assumption held by society at large. Don't worry before anyone brings up a wackload of links, I will recognize media and then bad press Muslims and Islam get, but why can't people make a difference between the nutters and their neighbors....

Good questions Abdullah. I wrote a big response but deleted it as I think I would just be rehashing all my old points over and over again. In a (smaller) nutshell I think a lot of people (like myself) think Muslims are more inclined to get angry, upset or resort to violence over real or percieved insults against Islam.
It's in the media a lot because it happens a lot. Of course media outlets exasperate it and orgs like rebel media go out of their way to fan anti-Muslim flames but there IS a issue with Islam and violence.

 

[AbdullahD]

Maximum effective range of an excuse is 0 meters 

Good questions Abdullah. I wrote a big response but deleted it as I think I would just be rehashing all my old points over and over again. In a (smaller) nutshell I think a lot of people (like myself) think Muslims are more inclined to get angry, upset or resort to violence over real or percieved insults against Islam.
It's in the media a lot because it happens a lot. Of course media outlets exasperate it and orgs like rebel media go out of their way to fan anti-Muslim flames but there IS a issue with Islam and violence.

Aye, that is fine with me. I do think I know your position, or at least understand the basic elements of it. But I am curious as to how much per capita (?) is spent on Islamic or Muslim tantrums verse Jewish, Christian, Sikh etc tantrums.

I see things such as 500 million creating pro-daesh propaganda and I wonder how that holds true for the rest of the media and other religions...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-03/iraq-propaganda-videos

Then I look at things like 'Jewish' extremism in the USA at 7% when 'Islamic' extremism is at 6% yet the Jewish religion as respectable and honorable as it is.. is vastly smaller then Islam in the world.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

So wouldn't that mean 'Jewish' extremists should show up in the media roughly 10% more often then 'Islamic' extremists? Now I realize these are north American based studies, but when is the last time any of us can remember a 'Jewish' extremist? It is like all 'Jewish' extremism stopped with the advent of 'Islamic' extremism.. which seems suspicious to me at least...

Now I also look at before and after events... like before an after 911 or the 'Iraq War'

http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/68973:the-iraq-effect-war-has-increased-terrorism-sevenfold-worldwide

Afghanistan before the wars... and we all know the after, sadly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3404803/Life-Taliban-Fascinating-photographs-idyllic-Afghanistan-1960s-residents-free-enjoy-outdoor-picnics-colourful-markets.html

Now all these people could reconcile their 'Islamic Identity' with their lifestyles, they were Muslim and 'normal'. Then it all went down the toilet. I am huge  believer that a persons economic standing, is an indicator of what behavior they may be susceptible to, for many reasons; 1- Geographically they may be located with other poor folks 2- many times economic standing is correlated to education ie the more wealthy have higher educations. So I don't think it is to much 'Islam' as the problem, which many pro secularization people argue, I think it is the lack of knowledge secular and religious and lack of economic mobility.

I'm not excusing the actions of extremists, I am just arguing Islam is not at fault. Look at Malaysia, since we have Colin here and he is intimately knowledgeable about Malaysian life... they were very relaxed (and most still are ie 99%), but the wahabi cultists infiltrated Malaysia, like they did in Afghanistan and have started preaching crap as the only 'true' Islam... and it makes the rest of us look like raving lunatics. But again it is not Islam or the fault of Muslims, even though Muslims propagate it. It is just like extremism in other religions, it is not the fault of that religion that people warp what was meant to be taught into an evil incarnation of a beautiful religion.

And back to my point, I like tangents when I talk, I really edit my posts hard... so if it seems a little choppy... thats why lol

Anywho, there are 'Islamic' extremists, no doubt about it in any way, shape or form. But it seems like they get way more then their fair share of Media time and thus it makes many people think, it is an issue with Islam, not an issue with some so called Muslims. Now Islam is in a war, so to speak, which I think you all are aware of, we have international funding of a certain brand of Islam that I disagree with and it does nothing to help Islam's image. Especially when these wahabi fools, show up on national television quoting such and such a verse or hadith and claiming that some extremist position is the only accepted position in Islam.

But a lot of us.. would dearly like to uh 'talk' to these people and set them straight... (by talk I mean slap them silly or send them to jail or any such interesting combination)

Abdullah

Ps I despise excuses, give me a good reason and I may excuse you... but if you give me an excuse, don't expect much.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Abdullah I put this here under Island and Western Society since I think you self-identifying as a Muslim convert opens up some interesting topics and discussions about Islam. Putting converting in a positive light instead of what we often hear about in the news. 

Please don't feel I'm trying to put you on trial or anything but I also didn't think you would mind because (at least to me) it kind of feels like your primary reason for posting is to talk about Islam  where recruiting to the CF is a distant second.

You've mentioned being a convert a couple times that I remember and again perhaps it is just me but your posts often seem to come across as someone born and raised a Muslim.  So you've spoken about how people don't really understand Islam and spoken to how Muslim women are treated while growing up in a Islamic house as well as how you think most women who wear the Burka etc.. are happy to do so. 

Do you think it's possible having only converted to Islam 10 or so years ago(as an adult) you may have missed out on a lot of what happens in the formative years (if I'm saying that correctly) and perhaps you may have only been exposed to the academic and nicer (for lack of a better word) side of Islam?  How long ago did your wife convert to Islam? Was it as an adult and possibly put her in the same boat as you so to speak?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Thanks for all the explaining, AbdullahD, and adding to the meat without adding just sizzle.

One caveat for you, though ...
<Source note>

... Then I look at things like 'Jewish' extremism in the USA at 7% when 'Islamic' extremism is at 6% yet the Jewish religion as respectable and honorable as it is.. is vastly smaller then Islam in the world.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

(...)

I'd be careful quoting from this site because the organizers tend to view the world a bit ... conspiratorially ...

• "9/11 a CIA- MOSSAD False Flag Operation"
• "Orlando Shootings: Terrorism or False Flag?"
• "False Flags are Part of a Military Agenda: From Pearl Harbor to 9/11"

</Source note>

 

[AbdullahD]

Abdullah I put this here under Island and Western Society since I think you self-identifying as a Muslim convert opens up some interesting topics and discussions about Islam. Putting converting in a positive light instead of what we often hear about in the news. 

Please don't feel I'm trying to put you on trial or anything but I also didn't think you would mind because (at least to me) it kind of feels like your primary reason for posting is to talk about Islam  where recruiting to the CF is a distant second.

Actually, the primary reason I am here, by an extremely large margin is and was to learn about the CF, the application process and different trials that I will face. I am a huge believer in only talking about things you know, since regarding the Armed forces and other topics here I am woefully ignorant, it leaves me with this topic. That is likely the only reason you see me posting at all, but I am in no way, shape, or form here to discuss Islam and Muslims as my sole or primary purpose. I am sorry I came across that way, I actually read quite a few of the physical fitness threads from start to finish and they helped me a lot, I've also read every post about the trade I'm interested in etc etc. This Islam stuff is secondary.

You've mentioned being a convert a couple times that I remember and again perhaps it is just me but your posts often seem to come across as someone born and raised a Muslim.   So you've spoken about how people don't really understand Islam and spoken to how Muslim women are treated while growing up in a Islamic house as well as how you think most women who wear the Burka etc.. are happy to do so.  

Do you think it's possible having only converted to Islam 10 or so years ago(as an adult) you may have missed out on a lot of what happens in the formative years (if I'm saying that correctly) and perhaps you may have only been exposed to the academic and nicer (for lack of a better word) side of Islam?  How long ago did your wife convert to Islam? Was it as an adult and possibly put her in the same boat as you so to speak?

Aye, good thoughts and very valid. Now first off my wife did convert as an adult around 20 years of age so yes, it is so to speak the same boat.

Also, the reason I mention me converting relatively often is because converts face a very different set of issues then born Muslims. Born Muslims get inundated with culture and Islam from the very beginning, converts get it as adults.. which sometimes give us the skill to differentiate the culture from the religion.

Since my wife and I have been together we have now started raising our own children. We use a hybrid of Canadian Culture and the Islamic religion. So the oppression you see in certain documentaries about certain ethnic groups does not exist in our home, except maybe some flaws all Canadians have. The Islamic religion does give rights to the parents and we are to do our best to raise them properly, punishment sadly is a part of growing up.. but not beatings.

The sheer amount of hadiths that exist about treating kids nicely is astounding, so that confirms to me that is how we are supposed to treat them. I am currently on a road trip to pick up some cars so I can not really properly source them right now. but here are two hadiths close to the meaning, off the top of my head.

One states, that those who do not have respect for the elders and compassion for the youth is not from among us (ie they are not Muslim)

The other I can recall states; that a young boy who was a servant of the Prophet sws, from a tender age until he had grown up. Said upon recalling all the times he had made mistakes that the Prophet sws never once raised his voice to admonish him.

I do believe these both are sahih hadiths, they are also very well known. I take them as part of an arguement that anyone who is abusive and oppressive towards children, is not practicing Islam at all. The evil side that you see, without seeing specific examples, I chalk up to culture and not Islam. I recently had a guy take me out and let me try out his AR15's and his HK 9mm handgun.. afterwards he came to my house and when he saw how my kids interacted with me, I feel he finished forming an opinion about me.

Now this is not just my home, I have many friends from many different ethnic and cultural groups and their kids are not oppressed or abused too. I have also seen oppressed and abused Canadian kids... I feel Islam nor any other religion promotes abusing kids, but some people just need an excuse to feel powerful.. so children suffer and many times the wife too.

I also do not think I have 'missed' it, being Muslim for a while now I have friends who have had kids and I get to watch how they interact with their children.. if anything I say they are far to lenient.. my wife have higher expectations so to speak. So watching my friends with their kids and knowing these different arguements. I personally believe I have not been exposed to a separate Islam from what kids see, but I have just been exposed to the religion not the culture.

I hope that answers it

Abdullah

Ps Jarnhammer I am honestly sorry that I come across as being here to talk about Islam first. My Islam is first to me, but the reason I am here is to be the best damned recruit I can be and not let my family down.

Pss thanks Milnews, I suspect I should be more careful if I have a more critical crowd. I guess this is why I try to avoid debates, I'm bad at it lol

 

[The Bread Guy]

Pss thanks Milnews, I suspect I should be more careful if I have a more critical crowd. I guess this is why I try to avoid debates, I'm bad at it lol

You're not bad at debate/discussion at all - just wanted to make sure you're tapping the best support for your arguments.  Please, continue!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Actually, the primary reason I am here, by an extremely large margin is and was to learn about the CF, the application process and different trials that I will face. I am a huge believer in only talking about things you know, since regarding the Armed forces and other topics here I am woefully ignorant, it leaves me with this topic. That is likely the only reason you see me posting at all, but I am in no way, shape, or form here to discuss Islam and Muslims as my sole or primary purpose. I am sorry I came across that way, I actually read quite a few of the physical fitness threads from start to finish and they helped me a lot, I've also read every post about the trade I'm interested in etc etc. This Islam stuff is secondary.

Fair enough, please don't apologize though I'm just always suspicious to the point of being an asshole 

Just for context I mention it because when you joined the board you posted two quick intro posts then on your 3rd jumped into a huge post about Islam, including where you say  "I supprot the sharia"  then more large posts on your 4th, 5th, 7th etc... 
It's easy to look at your post history and form an opinion on what the meat and potatos of your posts are about so in this case I wasn't just trying to shitpost.

Aye, good thoughts and very valid. Now first off my wife did convert as an adult around 20 years of age so yes, it is so to speak the same boat.

Roger. 

Also, the reason I mention me converting relatively often is because converts face a very different set of issues then born Muslims. Born Muslims get inundated with culture and Islam from the very beginning, converts get it as adults.. which sometimes give us the skill to differentiate the culture from the religion.

You said this as well in one of your earlier posts (things got a bit heated, all good)

See look, I spent 30 seconds on google and look at all these links i got validating my points. Must mean im right, right? Do we really need to continue this pathetic childish argument? I am saying real Islam treats women right and I have authentic texts backing it up. You are talking about cultural crap.

Taking into consideration both your wife and yourself only recently converted (or perhaps better said converted in adulthood) is it safe to suggest the both of you missed out on a whole bunch of the culture that happens behind closed doors when children are growing up or how they are taught, what they're exposed to etc.. ? So it's really easy for you to brush off a lot of the negative aspects of it?

Since my wife and I have been together we have now started raising our own children. We use a hybrid of Canadian Culture and the Islamic religion. So the oppression you see in certain documentaries about certain ethnic groups does not exist in our home, except maybe some flaws all Canadians have. The Islamic religion does give rights to the parents and we are to do our best to raise them properly, punishment sadly is a part of growing up.. but not beatings.

The sheer amount of hadiths that exist about treating kids nicely is astounding, so that confirms to me that is how we are supposed to treat them. I am currently on a road trip to pick up some cars so I can not really properly source them right now. but here are two hadiths close to the meaning, off the top of my head.

Abdullah it sounds like you have a great family and a great house hold. I really mean that. Do you think it's possible the way you amalgamated Islam and Canadian culture so well is because you joined Islam as an educated adult and had the opportunity or ability to pick and choose what worked and what didn't? You were able to approach it from a scholastic and theoretical view? It feels like it really appealed to you on an academic level.

afterwards he came to my house and when he saw how my kids interacted with me, I feel he finished forming an opinion about me.

Realizing now you converted to Islam and weren't raised in it I have to admit I'm even more intrigued by your views on if your kids decided they would be Catholics or atheists or just not follow Muslim beliefs.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Since my wife and I have been together we have now started raising our own children. We use a hybrid of Canadian Culture and the Islamic religion. So the oppression you see in certain documentaries about certain ethnic groups does not exist in our home, except maybe some flaws all Canadians have. The Islamic religion does give rights to the parents and we are to do our best to raise them properly, punishment sadly is a part of growing up.. but not beatings.

Will your children have to wear a head covering? What about being in public by themselves? Are they going to be raised with western, occidental values?

Perhaps you'd like to explain exactly what flaws all Canadian have and, given your penchant for your new lifestyle, (cause it's not just a religion ), what similar flaws exist in Islam? Will your daughters be educated in a mosque, madras or public school?

 

[Lumber]

Will your children have to wear a head covering? What about being in public by themselves? Are they going to be raised with western, occidental values?

Perhaps you'd like to explain exactly what flaws all Canadian have and, given your penchant for your new lifestyle, (cause it's not just a religion ), what similar flaws exist in Islam? Will your daughters be educated in a mosque, madras or public school?

Off the top of my head:
Materialistic
Lazy
Selfish
Alcoholic
Impatient
Sensitive

 

[Jarnhamar]

Off the top of my head:
Materialistic
Lazy
Selfish
Alcoholic
Impatient
Sensitive

Ya what a bunch of infidels eh?

 

[Lumber]

Ya what a bunch of infidels eh?

I have a ball-cap given to me by a USN LCdr that says exactly that, in both English and Arabic.

 

[AbdullahD]

Will your children have to wear a head covering? What about being in public by themselves? Are they going to be raised with western, occidental values?

Perhaps you'd like to explain exactly what flaws all Canadian have and, given your penchant for your new lifestyle, (cause it's not just a religion ), what similar flaws exist in Islam? Will your daughters be educated in a mosque, madras or public school?

Recceguy, I think you took me a little to literally. All new Canadian parents, face similar trials and tribulations. We as a nation have different issues then say afghani's or Ethiopian's in their respective countries face. Please notice I said Canadians, not Muslim, Christian, Jew etc. Christian Canadians, Muslim Canadians etc, all face these issues. I made that comment in an abstract sense. But since I have ticked you off, I will, because I feel so inclined answer a couple questions.

Now if I said I had two daughters, sorry that was a typo. I have a daughter (4)and a son (2), regarding the education I will allow them to have, I truely have not decided. To me it is not a binary question of either this way or that way, I believe I can have my kids in a blended system. Such an example could be is going to the public school for the secular education, then go to the Madrasa or Makhtab or even an online education system. Some real good ones do exist. Or I could put the kids in a private Islamic school and then put them in extra curricular activities with kids in the general public.

My family is a Muslim family in Canada, why on earth would we try to hide from it? Insulating our kids from the broader Canadian society, I personally think would be a idiotic idea.. because eventually they will interact with this society. Now I have heard a saying to the effect of "catholic school girls" and how wild they go, insulating my kids from the real world.. would likely just have the same effect.

Now you bring up Western Occidental values and wether I will be teaching my kids them, that also seems to me like you think it is an Islam vs the West scenario. To me, it is not. I can teach my kids the sanctity of life, love of liberty and freedom, duty to your country and fellow man etc etc and I will feel those are all Canadian and Islamic Values.

Now you bring up wether I will force my daughter to cover her head etc and if she can go out alone.. well at 4 years old, now way in hell at 15 why wouldnt I? I do not force my kids or wife to do anything, I encourage with love and wisdom as best as I can. My daughter currently enjoys getting into her "sunday best" to go to the Mosque to pray. There are certain dress code rules regarding prayer, that she should follow so I try to tech her. But I do not "force" her anymore then say a Christian parent forces their kids to dress nice to go to the church on sunday. I feel that parents who force their kids and are oppressive towards their children are displaying some very disgusting behavior and god willing I will never oppress or abuse my family.

I hope that makes amends. Jarnhamar, I am working on yours now, recce just seemed a little annoyed with my wording, so I wanted to patch it up first

Now on to coffee number two... err reply #2.

Abdullah

 

[AbdullahD]

Thanks for fixing the quotes

Fair enough, please don't apologize though I'm just always suspicious to the point of being an ******* 

Just for context I mention it because when you joined the board you posted two quick intro posts then on your 3rd jumped into a huge post about Islam, including where you say  "I supprot the sharia"  then more large posts on your 4th, 5th, 7th etc... 
It's easy to look at your post history and form an opinion on what the meat and potatos of your posts are about so in this case I wasn't just trying to shitpost.

Looking at it from your point of view, the suspicion was definitely warranted for you. I have actually come to really enjoy the caliber of discussion on this board, it is an extreme rarity on the Internet sadly.. so maybe because I enjoy the intelligent discussion, I post a lot.. I have missed conversation that makes you think.. having two kids, my level and type of discussion has changed dramatically.

Roger. 

You said this as well in one of your earlier posts (things got a bit heated, all good)
Taking into consideration both your wife and yourself only recently converted (or perhaps better said converted in adulthood) is it safe to suggest the both of you missed out on a whole bunch of the culture that happens behind closed doors when children are growing up or how they are taught, what they're exposed to etc.. ? So it's really easy for you to brush off a lot of the negative aspects of it?

This is valid. I can never know, can I? If I am not seeing it then I can believe it does not exist, even if it does. So yes, it 'could' be happening, but I am sticking to the guns and saying I highly doubt it. I have two convert male friends, one married a Pakistani lady and one Married an Egyptian lady and they have never brought anything up about this kind of stuff and they happen to be two of my closest friends with kids. My wife also has a girlfriend who reverted and married a Pakistani guy and so far we have heard nothing from that sister too. But things exist in every culture around the world, that a minority act upon that would disgust us all.. and a lot of cultures have their own specific traits that seem innocent to them, but foreign and weird to others.. so who knows, you may be right, but my guns are still blazing so to speak

Abdullah it sounds like you have a great family and a great house hold. I really mean that. Do you think it's possible the way you amalgamated Islam and Canadian culture so well is because you joined Islam as an educated adult and had the opportunity or ability to pick and choose what worked and what didn't? You were able to approach it from a scholastic and theoretical view? It feels like it really appealed to you on an academic level.

Thank you and I would be a bold faced liar, if I said Islam does not and did not appeal to me on an academic level. I won't spiel on about the nuanced intricacies and how interesting I find them, but suffice to say you are spot on.

Now regarding picking and choosing, we don't. Everything 'Islamic' we do, I can support with a fatwa or fatawa's from one or more Islamic scholars. But we also very heavily follow the teachings that their is no compulsion in religion and that Islam should be taught with love and wisdom. So coming to it as an adult, I was more critical of it, but that also allowed me to see the different styles of Islam that exist and choose the one that worked for us as a family.. but every Muslim has that right in Islam, any Muslim can change their school of thought and take any fatawa from any reputable scholar. But sadly, this particular right, is not very well taught... which could be argued contributes to some of the issues Islam and Muslims face.

Realizing now you converted to Islam and weren't raised in it I have to admit I'm even more intrigued by your views on if your kids decided they would be Catholics or atheists or just not follow Muslim beliefs.

Hmm.. insert a internal debate on wether I was going to answer this publically.

God guides who he wills and takes guidance away from who he wills, regarding Islam. Now being a Muslim in no way, shape or form, implies, hints or proves that a person is a good person. It just implies that a fellow is potentially following the most correct religion (this is just my opinion, I am not trying to force it on others).

I would in no way disown them, I would investigate why or what made them feel Islam was wrong and try to overcome those objections in time with love. But having said that, I have seen many ex-Muslims/Christians/etc and seen many similar traits that lead to disbelief. Usually it was or is parents forcing kids to do religious acts, without explaining the why of it and without developing the ability to be critical of what followers of their faith do and be able to separate it from what the religion teaches.

Even if all my precautions and remedial measures did not work, I would assume to an extent I failed in this particular regard. But not completely as a parent. Mind you if my kids turn out to be drug addicted criminals who renounced Islam.. then I would have considered myself a complete failure. But absolutely everything is up to God to decide, if he decides this is my families fate, then it is my families fate. I just pray for the best for my family and all those I care about all the time. Who knows maybe they have to leave Islam and come back for some reason that only Allah knows.

Is this good enough?

Abdullah

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'll work on a reply Abdullah.


In the mean time, just came across this lovely piece of work.

Man who raped 10-year-old boy at swimming pool in Austria has sentence overturned by Supreme Court
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iraqi-refugee-raped-10-year-old-boy-swimming-pool-vienna-austria-sentence-conviction-overturned-a7377491.html

Supreme Court judges ruled that the first court should have established whether the attacker thought his victim agreed to a sexual act and intended to act against the boy’s will.

 

[AbdullahD]

I'll work on a reply Abdullah.


In the mean time, just came across this lovely piece of work.

Man who raped 10-year-old boy at swimming pool in Austria has sentence overturned by Supreme Court
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iraqi-refugee-raped-10-year-old-boy-swimming-pool-vienna-austria-sentence-conviction-overturned-a7377491.html

Aye I saw that too, my understanding is they are going back and following the 'proper procedures'. Apparently they messed up along the way and my guess is they are going back to make sure he doesn't get off easy, because they accidentally messed up. From my understanding, no one is saying he is innocent either, so maybe this is sensationalism in the media over nothing? But that is a pointless discussion too, we know the msm has its agendas

I'd argue that this is not necessarily an Islam in the west issue, but a Migrant/Refugee in the west issue. But I find no point in it, because the two are so closely connected in many cases and my opinion on what should happen to the guilty party in cases like these.. is a little 'medieval'.

Take your time, I personally am kinda busy re reading all the stuff on shin splints and how to deal with it.

 

[Flavus101]

Take your time, I personally am kinda busy re reading all the stuff on shin splints and how to deal with it.

Foam rolling works wonders, and if you are getting them while wearing boots try skipping the lace holes around where the ankle is. I found that helped a lot on long rucks.

 

[AbdullahD]

Since Muslims adapting and integrating is fairly often brought up by critics of Muslims and Islam. I am using that excuse to post these feel good articles and notes or statements and quotes (plus reasons I added down below).

But in truth, I am just proud of these guys and/or gals.

Turkish Muslim restaurant offers free Christmas dinner saying no one should eat alone.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/m.mic.com/articles/amp/161230/a-muslim-owned-restaurant-is-hosting-free-christmas-dinners-for-the-homeless?client=ms-android-bell-ca

(Last year) Muslim chosen to host the Swedish Julvard.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/World/Europe/2015/1223/Sweden-tries-something-new-for-annual-Christmas-TV-special-a-Muslim-host?client=ms-android-bell-ca

Now Imam Adam Kelwick, whose work includes drilling wells for people in africa and feeding the starving, encourages Mosques to follow the footsteps of Imam Abdullah Quilliam who used to host Christmas' for the poor. Ill put two links to his bio. Adam's endorsement can be found on Adam Kelwicks facebook bio.
http://imamsonline.com/blog/the-first-shaykh-of-the-british-isles-abdullah-quilliam/

http://www.baitulhikmah.com/2775-2/

Regarding saying 'merry christmas' as acceptable.

Suffice it to say that to Allah alone belongs all priase.

Fatwa on saying 'Merry Christmas' to non-muslims.

In my understanding it is permissible to exchange such greetings based on the conventional context, demonstrating good character and maintaining good social relations. 
All of which are taught to us through the exemplary guidance of The Messenger of Allah (saw), His blessed interactions and His good ties with the non muslims around him.

This Fatwa is also the opinion of many contemporary and luminary Ulama worldwide inc:
Sh Yusuf Qardawi
Sh Abdullah bin Bayyah
Sh AbdusSattar Saeed (alAzhar)
Sh M Sayyid Dasuqi (Qatar)
Sh Mustafa Zarqa
Sh M Rasheed Rida
Sh Ahmad Sharbaasi

that said, I do however recognise that there are other scholars who disagree with the above stated and have their respective evidences to do so. Such Ulama are at liberty to hold their differing views.

We understand this diversity, breadth and tolerance to be from the magnificent and legendary teachings of our Deen; Al-Islam.

& absolute knowledge belongs to Allah alone.

Duas
Wasalam
Mufti

Exchanging gifts and saying merry Christmas is 100% fine a more detailed look.
http://www.nairaland.com/2823222/congratulating-christians-during-christmas-permissible

Yes, yes, I know some of you may be scratching your heads and asking who cares. I just want this information to be available to people in the armed forces. Or at least to you guys, I suspect.. some more 'extreme' Muslims may be declaring some things against 'kafr's' and I just want to be proactive not reactive

It is my attempt to share my so-called christmas spirit. My wife crocheted hats, scarfs and blankets for her niece and nephew in northern alberta, I still need to sort out what I am getting people I need to buy for. We are eating a turkey that was slaughtered by a christian for our christmas dinner (yep, its halal), all in all I am just enjoying the season.

I do have more I could add regarding Muslims and Christmas.  But I feel this suffices.. plus it gives me an excuse to say...

Merry Christmas guys and God bless ya all.
God I like to talk

Abdullah

Ps Jarnhamar you never did reply lol

 

[Loachman]

And to you also - and you are always worth reading.