Interview advice (merged)

[xbowhntr]

After reading many of the negative comments regarding experiences with local recruiting centres I felt it necessary to share my personal experience with the Oshawa recruiting centre.

My first contact with the recruiting centre was almost a year ago. The process as a whole has been somewhat lengthy, some of the delays revolved around my personal circumstances and some were just the "nature of the beast" involved in dealing with such a large organization.

From my first contact with the recruiting centre to my receiving of an offer employment I experienced nothing but an exceptional level of professionalism! I felt throughout the whole process as if the recruiters REALLY REALLY wanted me to succeed. I was given courtesy calls to keep me updated on my application progress and anytime I phoned the centre with questions I was made to feel as if I was already part of the CF family.

I really appreciate all of the help the recruiters from the Oshawa Centre have provided me!

 

[ComdCFRG]

V Olive:

Glad that you were able to get your problem sorted.  Obviously what you understood/were told was not correct.  We get cases through the MND office on a regular basis (not as regularly as some other parts of the CF it seems though) and either I or one of my senior staff are involved in determining what happened and what should/can be done.  In many cases what we have done is correct, but not what the applicant wished to hear - in your case we obviously made a mistake and that has been corrected.

For the record, I don't consider it whining - it's everyone's right to raise an issue with their MP or the Minister and get an answer.  Not everyone applying takes the issue to the next level in the recruiting centre/call the 1-800 line/chat online with a recruiter for more information, which is why there are alternate methods to raise questions.

Nor are mistakes automatically incompetence or abuse - most often they are just mistakes that need to be corrected.  The recruiters, whether they are my staff or those working for Reserve Force units, are hardworking and dedicated individuals who do the best they can in trying to address both the needs of the service with those of the individual, and these are not always in mutual harmony.

 

[Occam]

On a related note,

In my experience, some of the folks walking up to the counter or calling.......need to f'ing learn how to politely talk to people.

Just curious - how much time do you have behind the counter of a recruiting office, again?

 

[armyvern]

Just curious - how much time do you have behind the counter of a recruiting office, again?

Where'd he say "Recruiting Office"??

Google "Op Connection" - it's been happening for almost 4 years now.

 

[Occam]

Where'd he say "Recruiting Office"??

Google "Op Connection" - it's been happening for almost 4 years now.

He said "walking up to the counter or calling".  Are civvies just wandering onto the flightline at 407 Sqn to ask him recruiting-related questions?  Or cold calling the AESOP lounge there to ask him questions?

 

[CountDC]

now now children - no fighting.  He is a Sgt with 15 years in so could have been a recruiter plus his post can be read several ways. 

He did not say recruiting office so could be talking about anywhere although the subj line of this thread mentions recruiting centre

did not mention civvies, what side of the counter or which end of the phone call so could be talking about the recruiters vice the applicant.

Best that we give him time to answer on his experience.

Now go to your respective corners and wait for the bell.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'd like to point out that those are rather drastic measures to have to take.  In some cases they are necessary.  In some cases they are more of a nuisance tactic that an unscrupulous person may be using to escape a perceived bias or punishment.  I am currently witnessing/experiencing the latter at the moment.  It is a double edged sword that often can hurt/smear all parties involved.  No one is the "innocent" in the end and everyone has a dark cloud over them.

In a way it reminds me of the days fifteen or so years ago, where people who weren't awarded a certain limited issue medal, went to their Member of Parliament and requested them.  Everyone in the Unit knew, and formed an instant opinion on the member's character.

It is often a double edged sword when these procedures are carried out.

I agree with George here. 

My first thought was "wow, talk about using a 10-lb maul to hammer in a 3 inch nail".  While it works, it probably isn't necessary (but may have been, I can't determine that).

For follow-on readers, my advice is to start at a lower level.  Specifically, each Recruiting Center has an OIC (Officer in Charge) which I believe is a Major/Lt Cdr. 

If you find yourself at odds with a MCC (Military Career Counsellor), etc, I think the prudent thing to do would be to address the issue to these people.  The problem can be corrected (possibly) at their level, and it allows them to address the issue across the whole of their CFRC staff (if necessary), doesn't involve lots of expended time and effort at higher levels where they are busy with "bigger picture" issues.  The aspiring CF mbr has their concerns addressed, the needed corrections can be made, and the OIC is given the opportunity to do their job; overseeing the CFRC they are responsible for to their Commander(s).

*Right tool for the right job*

 

[armyvern]

He said "walking up to the counter or calling".  Are civvies just wandering onto the flightline at 407 Sqn to ask him recruiting-related questions?  Or cold calling the AESOP lounge there to ask him questions?

Well, as part of Op Connection ... I got to stand around some displays (even though I've NEVER been posted to a CFRC, or manned their "counter" officially, or recd their calls) during Hometown recruiter etc to answer questions about my trade, the CF etc ... where I too saw some of the behaviour he mentions by those approaching the Recruiter kiosk.

In the CF, we are ALL recruiters.

 

[templeton peck]

Maybe it isn't a good introduction to military life.  But the fact of the matter is that IS military life.  I for one, do not like people who whine to higher ups everytime they don't get their way.

You for one don't like whiners? Who the hell does? But then, who likes people who constantly find fault in what others say and jump on them at the drop of a hat?
Sounds like you just want to tread on someone. If I follow your logic, you should never look out for yourself or make a peep when someone makes a blunder that negatively affects you, either while in the military or just prior to it while in the recruiting phase? Do you think all of those pesky reservists are 'whining' when they realise they are getting screwed over by the pencil pushers in Ottawa? Or those annoying amputees who can't get aid when they get home from a duty because of those same pencil pushers in Ottawa? I am of course exaggerating to prove my point, which is you shouldn't shut up when faced with a wrong - that would be more akin to a coward or sheep, and that is not what the army needs. (not saying you are one)

 

[Michael OLeary]

For follow-on readers, my advice is to start at a lower level.  Specifically, each Recruiting Center has an OIC (Officer in Charge) which I believe is a Major/Lt Cdr. 

If you find yourself at odds with a MCC (Military Career Counsellor), etc, I think the prudent thing to do would be to address the issue to these people.  The problem can be corrected (possibly) at their level, and it allows them to address the issue across the whole of their CFRC staff (if necessary), doesn't involve lots of expended time and effort at higher levels where they are busy with "bigger picture" issues.  The aspiring CF mbr has their concerns addressed, the needed corrections can be made, and the OIC is given the opportunity to do their job; overseeing the CFRC they are responsible for to their Commander(s).

*Right tool for the right job*

But you do have to know the tools exist.  I suspect that when an applicant is told that they have been found unsuitable for any reason, they are not then briefed on all their options to appeal that decision.

 

[CountDC]

Do you think all of those pesky reservists are 'whining' when they realise they are getting screwed over by the pencil pushers in Ottawa? 

not all but some are as they are not actually getting screwed over - they only think they are as they are not getting what they want. 

 

[mariomike]

In the CF, we are ALL recruiters.

Absolutely!
( Sorry for the one word response ).

 

[Eye In The Sky]

But you do have to know the tools exist.  I suspect that when an applicant is told that they have been found unsuitable for any reason, they are not then briefed on all their options to appeal that decision.

Agree 100%.  Hopefully this thread will be helpful to some of them that find themselves in this position then. 

 

[armyvern]

Wow Templeton,

Exaggerating?

You've turned a comment about "people who whine to higher ups every time they don't get their own way" into a supposed tirade about

Reservists,
Amputees,

And made him out to be just someone "who wants to stomp on everyone."

Talk about tirades; go speak with the man in the mirror.

 

[chris_log]

But you do have to know the tools exist.  I suspect that when an applicant is told that they have been found unsuitable for any reason, they are not then briefed on all their options to appeal that decision.

I think the reason the OP (and others) go right to their MP/Grievance System etc is because a year or so ago I do remember a number of media reports detailing how recruits were 'having to call their MP's to fix the broken recruiting system' (not my words) as well as a few reports on how the ombudsman (I believe) was looking into issues surrounding people's applications.

Therefore, to a prospective recruit this seems like the only option. I wonder how CFRC's could make it more obvious that there is an appeal process of sorts for applications. 

 

[armyvern]

I think the reason the OP (and others) go right to their MP/Grievance System etc is because a year or so ago I do remember a number of media reports detailing how recruits were 'having to call their MP's to fix the broken recruiting system' (not my words) as well as a few reports on how the ombudsman (I believe) was looking into issues surrounding people's applications.

Therefore, to a prospective recruit this seems like the only option. I wonder how CFRC's could make it more obvious that there is an appeal process of sorts for applications.

How about a BHS (Big Honkin' Sign) immediately inside each CFRC that states something akin to what I have up within my sections here (it's advice is usually followed at clothing stores...)

"If you experience what you feel to be bad service, or disagree in any way with what you are issued/told by counter staff - please take the following action in the following order, if necessary:

Ask for the Counter Supervisor: Local: XXXX
Ask for the IC Clothing Stores: Local: XXXX
Ask for the MPO (that's me): Local:

If you feel that we can not solve your issue, please have your CoC contact OC Sup at Local: XXXX."

 

[chris_log]

How about a BHS (Big Honkin' Sign) immediately inside each CFRC that states something akin to what I have up within my sections here (it's advice is usually followed at clothing stores...)

"If you experience what you feel to be bad service, or disagree in any way with what you are issued/told by counter staff - please take the following action in the following order, if necessary:

Ask for the Counter Supervisor: Local: XXXX
Ask for the IC Clothing Stores: Local: XXXX
Ask for the MPO (that's me): Local:

If you feel that we can not solve your issue, please have your CoC contact OC Sup at Local: XXXX."

That'd be a good idea. Although, considering the fact that we live in a society where people demand to see the manager because their potatoes are touching their peas....I wonder if the chain of command in a CFRC would have their phone ringing off the hook because "applicant A demands to know why they aren't on the summer BMQ". I'm not saying every prospective recruit is like that (far from it) but we do live in a society where these types of attitudes are prevalent. I can't tell you the number of times I used to have people demand to talk to my manager for this, that and the other things (and the delight I took in telling them to bugger off).

 

[armyvern]

That'd be a good idea. Although, considering the fact that we live in a society where people demand to see the manager because their potatoes are touching their peas....I wonder if the chain of command in a CFRC would have their phone ringing off the hook because "applicant A demands to know why they aren't on the summer BMQ". I'm not saying every prospective recruit is like that (far from it) but we do live in a society where these types of attitudes are prevalent. I can't tell you the number of times I used to have people demand to talk to my manager for this, that and the other things (and the delight I took in telling them to bugger off).

We here are very good at providing them with a copy of the written, signed, and authorized directive pertaining to "whichever" point seems to be causing concern to them. ...

At the lowest level possible. Isn't that what "CF society" teaches? Solve your issues at the lowest possible level. If I have a troop who chooses not to go that route ... it is a vlaid detractor point for PER purposes. We have the lowest level cavet in place for a purpose ... it allows us effeciency - especially so when the OC is only going to call the Supervisor (ie me) to ask what the "answer" to the problem is anyway when she gets a call. Ironic isn't it that the only reason they should be calling her was because they didn't like my answer.

 

[chris_log]

We here are very good at providing them with a copy of the written, signed, and authorized directive pertaining to "whichever" point seems to be causing concern to them. ...

At the lowest level possible. Isn't that what "CF society" teaches? Solve your issues at the lowest possible level. If I have a troop who chooses not to go that route ... it is a vlaid detractor point for PER purposes. We have the lowest level cavet in place for a purpose ... it allows us effeciency - especially so when the OC is only going to call the Supervisor (ie me) to ask what the "answer" to the problem is anyway when she gets a call. Ironic isn't it that the only reason they should be calling her was because they didn't like my answer.

100% agreed.

But remember, the CFRC isn't normally dealing with CF members who already understand the concepts of the chain of command and solving issues at the lowest level. The CFRC is dealing with civilians who more likely then not were raised in today's culture that tells us it is ok to take our problems right to the top. Hence why I think it is a good idea, although I just sense that the officer in charge of the CFRC will find himself/herself inundated by calls from people (and more likely, people's parents....as seen in other cases of deployed members overseas who find their parents at home 'helping' them in their affairs).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wow....blade a recruiter.  Good way to start your career.

I've had a recruiter flat out lie to my face. Not a good feeling, maybe we wouldn't have such a manning problem if more recruiters took their shit seriously.