Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[GK .Dundas]

I do not recall that number but knowing Simonds it's not illogical at all. My favourite quote of his - one which we seem to have lost sight of over time particulalry as it relates to the ResF is:



At the time that he was CGS in the early Fifties, there was a great expansion in the RegF to it's Cold War ceiling. At the time there were significant numbers of Militia personnel whose equipment was pretty much of the same type and quality as the RegF - Sherman tanks, 25 pounders and motorized infantry. The artillery transitioned at that time to the 105mm and 155 mm as common standards for both components. When the newly regenerated armoured corps stood up and Centurions were purchased initially in 1952, the Militia was still running Shermans. By 1971 we had just over 300 Centurions in various Marks in four full RegF regiments. Unfortunately just before that time, the Militia armoured units were losing their tanks and their tank role in favour of recce.

Four or five hundred additional Centurions would have complemented the existing Militia artillery and infantry (which was heavily 3/4 ton truck bound motorized units) structure of the day. Without the Centurions the "deployable reserve" concept really started to fall apart.

one of my goals (Utterly unobtainable of course lack the room to put it together much less display. ) was a what if model display of a militia armour unit sort of an a armoured cavalry .
upgraded centurioun and lynx and some 74 pattern jeeps.
We'd used tank based recce during the war and it tended to fascinate me.

 

[suffolkowner]

a buddy sent me some pictures of a bunch of our leos on the move today. So we can and do move them. An exercise upcoming or maintenance?

 

[MJP]

a buddy sent me some pictures of a bunch of our leos on the move today. So we can and do move them. An exercise upcoming or maintenance?

If it was on rails likely coming from Gagetown to Wx for Ex MR. If I understand the intent for once 1CMBG/LdSH(RC) are not destroying their tanks further supporting MR, although unknown if that charity extends to the ARVs and AEVs in 1 CMBG

 

[KevinB]

2 is 1, 1 is none.

 

[suffolkowner]

If it was on rails likely coming from Gagetown to Wx for Ex MR. If I understand the intent for once 1CMBG/LdSH(RC) are not destroying their tanks further supporting MR, although unknown if that charity extends to the ARVs and AEVs in 1 CMBG

yes via rail

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Your friend was fortunate enough to see C Sqn RCD.

 

[FJAG]

one of my goals (Utterly unobtainable of course lack the room to put it together much less display. ) was a what if model display of a militia armour unit sort of an a armoured cavalry .
upgraded centurioun and lynx and some 74 pattern jeeps.
We'd used tank based recce during the war and it tended to fascinate me.

Those were all runners during my days. I was part of the anti-Lynx crowd because I always really liked the Ferrets more. I had a Ferret sneak up on me one night when I was inspecting one of my guard posts during the Oktoberfest in Montreal in 1970. How quiet it was impressed the hell out of me. Lynx don't sneak notwithstanding their name.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Tell me have you ever been inside a ferret ?

 

[lenaitch]

Ontario to Improve Job Protection for Reservists:

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

 

[daftandbarmy]

Tell me have you ever been inside a ferret ?

I have.

Well, to be honest, as I'm over 6 ft tall I was able to get part of me in a Ferret

 

[FJAG]

Tell me have you ever been inside a ferret ?

I have not. But have stood beside one a few times and looked inside and if your point is that they are tiny and cramped than I heartily agree. (I have tried to squeeze into the driver's seat of a bren gun carrier once and I think that's even tighter. This is why tankers should be men or women under five foot six and weighing under 140 lbs. The Ferret did have room for a 42/45 set in those days so that should give enough room for a microwave or a small electronics stack these days.

Actually, if I were king, I'd buy (or better yet, build) these for our ResF recce folks.

 

[GK .Dundas]

On my yes , if you're going to do mud recce with wheels that is probably the best way you can do it.

 

[KevinB]

Or maybe the thing the US MIL buys a ton of.

Joint Light Tactical Vehicle | JLTV | Oshkosh Defense

The Oshkosh Defense Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) is designed for protection and extreme mobility in any mission.

oshkoshdefense.com

 

[FJAG]

Or maybe the thing the US MIL buys a ton of.

Joint Light Tactical Vehicle | JLTV | Oshkosh Defense

The Oshkosh Defense Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) is designed for protection and extreme mobility in any mission.

oshkoshdefense.com

A JLTV comes in at around 22,000 lbs (makes you kind of wonder about the "L" in "JLTV"). A VBL at around 8,000. I expect a lot of that weight moves the JTLV up from the Stanag Level 1 armour of the VBL. I 'm not really sure what level the JLTV comes in at - I saw a foreign sale talk about Level 2 but I think there may be options for higher levels.

My guess is that a VBL also comes in at a lot less than the $1/2 million that a JTLV costs.

But let me simply tell you how shallow I really am; I just think that the VBL looks neat and falls into my concept of the sneak and peak element of reconnaissance. Two or three guys (at least one trained as an FO/JTAC) a tiny, quiet truck, a small suite of sensors, a UAV and radios connected to an FSCC/TACP connected to batteries of AUAVs, guns, rockets, planes and helicopters. To me, that's recce - all the other stuff with tanks and ATGMs etc is cavalry. Whole different role.

Make it a hybrid unit with the FO/JTAC RegF and the rest of the crew ResF. Bob's your uncle.

 

[daftandbarmy]

A JLTV comes in at around 22,000 lbs (makes you kind of wonder about the "L" in "JLTV"). A VBL at around 8,000. I expect a lot of that weight moves the JTLV up from the Stanag Level 1 armour of the VBL. I 'm not really sure what level the JLTV comes in at - I saw a foreign sale talk about Level 2 but I think there may be options for higher levels.

My guess is that a VBL also comes in at a lot less than the $1/2 million that a JTLV costs.

But let me simply tell you how shallow I really am; I just think that the VBL looks neat and falls into my concept of the sneak and peak element of reconnaissance. Two or three guys (at least one trained as an FO/JTAC) a tiny, quiet truck, a small suite of sensors, a UAV and radios connected to an FSCC/TACP connected to batteries of AUAVs, guns, rockets, planes and helicopters. To me, that's recce - all the other stuff with tanks and ATGMs etc is cavalry. Whole different role.

Make it a hybrid unit with the FO/JTAC RegF and the rest of the crew ResF. Bob's your uncle.

Scimitar was a nice ride... not that I'm an armoured recce bod or anything:

FV107 Scimitar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GK .Dundas]

Altho' given my druthers I'd like the Wiesel family.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Scimitar was a nice ride... not that I'm an armoured recce bod or anything:

FV107 Scimitar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is however something to be said for a vehicle that will drive over a deep snow covered trail that a man on foot will sink into up to his waist .
And naturally enough it comes with a vessel boiling.

 

[Kirkhill]

There is however something to be said for a vehicle that will drive over a deep snow covered trail that a man on foot will sink into up to his waist .
And naturally enough it comes with a vessel boiling.

I seem to recall a typically Canadian either/or debate back in the 70s.

Leos or Scimitars.

IIRC we ended up leasing Leos and buying Cougars.

 

[daftandbarmy]

There is however something to be said for a vehicle that will drive over a deep snow covered trail that a man on foot will sink into up to his waist .
And naturally enough it comes with a vessel boiling.

It was a handy little range of light armoured vehicles, and were 'floaty' enough to get over some types of boggy ground and snow:

 

[Dale Denton]

Does anyone have any sources for the Canadian M1A1 offer? News to me.

This seems cold but, perhaps the gov't could let it be known at a certain time in a possible Ukraine Army rebuild that we offer up our Leopard Fleets in their current state? If Ukraine is independent at the end of this, Europe would continue to escalate and rearm Ukraine after the war to be a bigger deterrent as NATO membership and standardization is finalized (Leo 2s would help this). They get a nice cheap/free fleet of Leo 2s from other nations too i'm sure.

We could take the chance to develop/reorganise/rebuild a "Canadian Cavalry", complete with Canadian (ex-USMC) M1CAs 'Rams', and an IFV (with variants) for depth. Make them visually distinct for identification and Canadianize them / help industry. Get a cheap industrial capability and job creator in X province with another Canadian GDLS subsidiary plant that would do XYZ level maintenance and repair of our new M1 fleet with commitment to US-based contracts for long-term maintenance and repair (lord knows we'll keep them long...). Heck, make that GDLS plant develop hybrid electric propulsion or something. GDLS invests long-term into Canada again, securing a market for investors with long-term commitments. CAF gets a renewed fleet with a close-to-home logistical footprint. America sees a willing Canada, Europe and NATO would notice the contribution size of the Leopards for our political gain.

IMHO, maybe it's time for our vehicle fleets to be closer in similarity to the US? Something designed and built in the US has simply got to be easier to maintain than something built in Germany.

Crew swaps with Australian and US M1s. A cheap mix in with the US's M1 storage in Europe, and crew exchanges in Europe too. Maybe take a leading role in the rebuilding of a NATO-Ukraine armour rebuild/training school with our old Leopards too.

All this for the cost of how many M1s the US has laying around that they'd love to sell?? Buy 300+ with batches in Aus, Ger, and Ukr.