Hackles
- Thread starter Pikache
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Hackles are feathers, usually (but not always) worn in the headdress of Highland regiments. I‘m bound to be corrected on their meaning, but I believe the colour is signficant. For example, the Black Watch have a red hackle that was issued to them for effectiveness in battle (not sure which war, but I believe it was WWII).
I also believe that the white hackle is issued to regiments for acts of cowardice. (The RCA had their 100 years of pennance lifted a while ago for deserting the guns - I think in the Boer war.)
As I said, open to correction on these points...
Cheers
I also believe that the white hackle is issued to regiments for acts of cowardice. (The RCA had their 100 years of pennance lifted a while ago for deserting the guns - I think in the Boer war.)
As I said, open to correction on these points...
Cheers
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Mike I think you‘re thinking of white feathers handed out for cowardice.
A check of the HFC website revealed nothing about the hackle. However I think it may have been a carry over honour from one of the two regiments that formed this unit, the Highland Light Infantry of Canada, or the Scots Fusiliers of Canada, most likely the later as Fusilier Regiments often wore (wear?) hackles as part of their dress.
Also you‘re right about the Blackwatch‘s red hackle according to info I found at their web site
http://www.theblackwatch.co.uk/newsite/index.html
it was adopted in 1795. it does not appear to have been awarded as a battle honour, which i always thought was the case. I think the confusion arises from the awarding of the "Royal" prefix as an honour for their outstanding servive in the Seven Years War, especially for their charge at Ticonderoga where they lost 50% but kept going.
A check of the HFC website revealed nothing about the hackle. However I think it may have been a carry over honour from one of the two regiments that formed this unit, the Highland Light Infantry of Canada, or the Scots Fusiliers of Canada, most likely the later as Fusilier Regiments often wore (wear?) hackles as part of their dress.
Also you‘re right about the Blackwatch‘s red hackle according to info I found at their web site
http://www.theblackwatch.co.uk/newsite/index.html
it was adopted in 1795. it does not appear to have been awarded as a battle honour, which i always thought was the case. I think the confusion arises from the awarding of the "Royal" prefix as an honour for their outstanding servive in the Seven Years War, especially for their charge at Ticonderoga where they lost 50% but kept going.
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Well, here‘s what I found of the white hackle for Royal Highland Fusiliers (the Brit unit).
http://www.mostovionline.com/319/info.htm
...The Royal Highland Fusiliers. The white plume or "hackle" on his hat (see photo) denotes a Fusilier regiment. These were formed in the 18th century of infantry armed with new French rifle or "fusil."
The white hackle has another origin in this regiment, which is an amalgamation of the Royal Scots Fusiliers and the Highland Light Infantry (HLI). The 1st Battalion of the HLI was the first regiment raised in the Highlands of Scotland after the rebellion by the "Clans" of the western Highlands in 1745. They sought to restore a Catholic king to the throne of Great Britain but were defeated. They were not however required to wear the Black Cock feather which their former enemies, the Lowland, Protestant regiments wore. In a gesture of magnanimity, they were allowed to retain the "White Cockade" denoting their distinctive former allegiance.
http://www.mostovionline.com/319/info.htm
...The Royal Highland Fusiliers. The white plume or "hackle" on his hat (see photo) denotes a Fusilier regiment. These were formed in the 18th century of infantry armed with new French rifle or "fusil."
The white hackle has another origin in this regiment, which is an amalgamation of the Royal Scots Fusiliers and the Highland Light Infantry (HLI). The 1st Battalion of the HLI was the first regiment raised in the Highlands of Scotland after the rebellion by the "Clans" of the western Highlands in 1745. They sought to restore a Catholic king to the throne of Great Britain but were defeated. They were not however required to wear the Black Cock feather which their former enemies, the Lowland, Protestant regiments wore. In a gesture of magnanimity, they were allowed to retain the "White Cockade" denoting their distinctive former allegiance.
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And another tidbit...
http://www.btinternet.com/~johnhglen/the_military_page.htm
The white hackle was a standard one for grenadiers and fusiliers and was worn by The Royal Scots Fusiliers from 1768 to 1866. It was restored to the regiment in 1902 to mark its distinguished service during the South African war of 1899-1902.
Still does not answer where HLI/RHFC‘s history of white hackle came from...
http://www.btinternet.com/~johnhglen/the_military_page.htm
The white hackle was a standard one for grenadiers and fusiliers and was worn by The Royal Scots Fusiliers from 1768 to 1866. It was restored to the regiment in 1902 to mark its distinguished service during the South African war of 1899-1902.
Still does not answer where HLI/RHFC‘s history of white hackle came from...
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Bedpan, from what you dug up, I would presume then that the white hackle of the HFC, was adopted as part of their dress in recognition of the affiliated British Regiment or more likely the hackle was adopted by one or both of the two regiments that were amalgamated to make up the HFC, the HLIC, and/or the SFC.
Many Canadian regiments have adopted items of dress directly from their British "Parent" units. the red hackle, the maroon beret, the various cap badges and/or tartens etc.
Many Canadian regiments have adopted items of dress directly from their British "Parent" units. the red hackle, the maroon beret, the various cap badges and/or tartens etc.
Michael Dorosh
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The story of the blue hackle (and the red hackle) is on my site at www.canadiansoldiers.com
go to INSIGNIA and then SPECIAL DISTINCTIONS. The white hackle was nothing special, it was worn by all regiments of the line IIRC; the blue was adopted by the Queen‘s Own Cameron Highlanders in WW II as detailed on my site, and the red hackle is a special distinction worn by the Black Watch only (and about 2000 civilian pipe bands).
go to INSIGNIA and then SPECIAL DISTINCTIONS. The white hackle was nothing special, it was worn by all regiments of the line IIRC; the blue was adopted by the Queen‘s Own Cameron Highlanders in WW II as detailed on my site, and the red hackle is a special distinction worn by the Black Watch only (and about 2000 civilian pipe bands).
I had to smile when I saw Mike‘s comment about hackles being a disgrace - it was taken for granted by a lot of guys I ran into while serving with my old reserve unit (Lorne Scots in Ontario) - even better, they wear a primrose-coloured hackle on the balmoral, which fits in perfectly with the whole cowardice idea. From what I remember, it was earned by the Lornes‘ associated regiment in the UK, the Lancashire Fusiliers, I think, as a battle honour in the Boer War.
Cheers,
Ralph
Cheers,
Ralph
C
clayball
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umm...to blow the dust off ob this topic ( chuckles ) , yeah, i heard the yellow hackel that i've seen the lorne scott's wear is for a discrace ( as what also fits into the yelow stripe in their tarten ( i'm in a pipe band so i pick up things from tartens)) , that it was for raping nuns and such pleasentries....and thast what i've heard
....and any1 by chance know what the green one by chance means ? ( the 2nd Battalion of the Irish Regiment of Canada is what i;m in ( cadets, and maby soon to be reserves))
....and any1 by chance know what the green one by chance means ? ( the 2nd Battalion of the Irish Regiment of Canada is what i;m in ( cadets, and maby soon to be reserves))
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clayball said:
Primrose not yellow
Michael Dorosh
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http://army.ca/forums/threads/3066.45.html
See the thread at the link above, it was a recent discussion about how silly an idea it is to believe that the Army would actually make a unit wear a "dishonour" on their uniform.
See the thread at the link above, it was a recent discussion about how silly an idea it is to believe that the Army would actually make a unit wear a "dishonour" on their uniform.
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Cooper
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Well you heard wrong.
a: The Lorne Scots don't have yellow in their tartan and;
b: The primrose hackle was earned the the Lancashire Fusiliers (XX of foot) for actions during the Boer War and when they were going to be amalgamated into the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers in the 60s they gave the hackle to the Lorne Scots (their allied regiment) so that the tradition could be continued.
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clayball
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ArmyRick said:
like i said , as i heard it was something i heard , i didn't say it was like a fact or something like that, but with cadets , and kids of today , you dint know if what we call reality is real or not or some messed up stuff like that
but yes , as to what i have said , i do apologize for my mislead information ,and be,if i were able to i would of just deleted that comment
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Although a bit off-topic, I felt it would be interesting to ask about "toories."
The little bit I heard from a Sgt was that the Toorie on Belmorals and Glengarries was used as a formation marking. When Field Comdrs would assess their strength, they would stand on a hilltop and be able to make out different Regts. by the colour of the toories on their headress. A bit surreal, but an interrest fact if it is true. RHF, have you heard this too? Maybe there's more too it.
As for colours of hackles, with exceptions of course (Black Watch, Lorne Scots, e.t.c,) I also heard that it sometimes comes down to how much money a regt wants to spend on its' appearance and thus some regts don't have a battle honour or history behind the colour of their hackle but rather just have it for regt appearance. However this could be heresay and should be taken with a grain of salt since I myself don't know this for a fact. If anyone can shed light on this, it would make this mess less muddled up.
The little bit I heard from a Sgt was that the Toorie on Belmorals and Glengarries was used as a formation marking. When Field Comdrs would assess their strength, they would stand on a hilltop and be able to make out different Regts. by the colour of the toories on their headress. A bit surreal, but an interrest fact if it is true. RHF, have you heard this too? Maybe there's more too it.
As for colours of hackles, with exceptions of course (Black Watch, Lorne Scots, e.t.c,) I also heard that it sometimes comes down to how much money a regt wants to spend on its' appearance and thus some regts don't have a battle honour or history behind the colour of their hackle but rather just have it for regt appearance. However this could be heresay and should be taken with a grain of salt since I myself don't know this for a fact. If anyone can shed light on this, it would make this mess less muddled up.
Michael Dorosh
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NATO Boy said:
The combat dress of the Highland soldier in the 1800s was the feather bonnet, which did not have a toorie, so that kind of blows your theory out of the water. On campaign in arid regions, the sun helmet was worn. No toories. The kilmarnock bonnet was worn as off duty dress - did this even have a toorie, I don't recall.
The balmoral and tam o'shanter are fairly modern items of dress, rather like the "little kilt" which is worn today - possibly one of those items that came into existence after Proscription was lifted and then backdated in popular imagination, like the erroneous idea that clan tartans existed before the '45....
The glengarry was adopted as army wide headdress in the late 1800s, but I believe this was a form of undress, no?
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