These six guys might disagree...
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070530/nl_vessel_070530/20070530?hub=Canada
These six guys might disagree...
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070530/nl_vessel_070530/20070530?hub=Canada
For the information of the ignorant: (That's me,)
1. How important is pressurisation in a FWSAR aircraft? I understand it might be more comfortable when repositioning over the BC hills but is that a significant proportion of flight time? How inconvenient is Oxygen? Is building a pressurised aircraft with a big rear ramp not more expensive than it is worth for this application?
2. I apologise for asking, I have tried surfing and not found the answer. Can anyone tell me how the performance of, say, the Spartan compares to the Buffalo, and operational cost, very roughly?
3. If I read between the lines right a good spec for the next FWSAR is 50 knots over the buffalo for dash, extra range and available time in the air per mission, still the same slow speed characteristics and STOL. How about size? Has the SAR equipment etc grown too or can the Buffalo handle it fine?
4. Again, reading between the lines, there is no civilian market that ends up with an airplane that fulfils this spec or even close, so anyone who designs and builds a plane to suit is only looking at military markets for their production run. Are there any other military uses for which such an aircraft would be suitable? Given the answer to that, what is the possible market world wide for such a plane. Surely there must be any number of countries that have a similar need.
5. Given the discussion above on suiting operations to the aircraft, is there an obvious change or improvement we could make in our style of operations that would change the ideal spec, and how? Is there a situation that arises today that we can not handle and what would we need to handle it?
I would be at Comox Saturday but I have a graduation ceremony to attend. Infuriating, I'll be over there 11 Saturday night!
1. How important is pressurisation in a FWSAR aircraft? I understand it might be more comfortable when repositioning over the BC hills but is that a significant proportion of flight time? How inconvenient is Oxygen? Is building a pressurised aircraft with a big rear ramp not more expensive than it is worth for this application?
2. I apologise for asking, I have tried surfing and not found the answer. Can anyone tell me how the performance of, say, the Spartan compares to the Buffalo, and operational cost, very roughly?
3. If I read between the lines right a good spec for the next FWSAR is 50 knots over the buffalo for dash, extra range and available time in the air per mission, still the same slow speed characteristics and STOL. How about size? Has the SAR equipment etc grown too or can the Buffalo handle it fine?
4. Again, reading between the lines, there is no civilian market that ends up with an airplane that fulfils this spec or even close, so anyone who designs and builds a plane to suit is only looking at military markets for their production run. Are there any other military uses for which such an aircraft would be suitable? Given the answer to that, what is the possible market world wide for such a plane. Surely there must be any number of countries that have a similar need.
5. Given the discussion above on suiting operations to the aircraft, is there an obvious change or improvement we could make in our style of operations that would change the ideal spec, and how? Is there a situation that arises today that we can not handle and what would we need to handle it?
I would be at Comox Saturday but I have a graduation ceremony to attend. Infuriating, I'll be over there 11 Saturday night!
Well, I have a question to add to the that i would like answered. What are other countries using to do SAR in their mountain regions? We are using the Buffalo. What are the Americans using? the European countries around the Alps?
If we need an aircraft to fly slowly through the valleys then they must have the same requirement.
If we need an aircraft to fly slowly through the valleys then they must have the same requirement.
- Reaction score
- 308
- Points
- 880
European countries rely upon Helo assets for a majority of their SAR response. Geography permits this...
The Russians rely on a mixed bag of RW and FW assets - their fledgling federal aviation agency is still working out the details...
We could eliminate the need of FWSAR - we would just have to increase the SAR budget by about 500% and place RW assets at every major aerodrome across the country - or just keep using FWSAR.
The Russians rely on a mixed bag of RW and FW assets - their fledgling federal aviation agency is still working out the details...
We could eliminate the need of FWSAR - we would just have to increase the SAR budget by about 500% and place RW assets at every major aerodrome across the country - or just keep using FWSAR.
I wish I could wave the magic wand and order the right aircraft right now. The questions were asked not as criticism or 'may be we don't need' (I believe we do, more and better,) but to try and understand what a good spec. would be and , when we do make achoice, why it might be good or bad.
Something I learned from this site: In a typical forces scenario we order enough planes but after a while,maybe when we are talking about replacement, we don't replace those lost by attrition, then we end up with a fleet that is 'tight' for purpose and can get stressed over capability. Had not occurred to me before.
Something I learned from this site: In a typical forces scenario we order enough planes but after a while,maybe when we are talking about replacement, we don't replace those lost by attrition, then we end up with a fleet that is 'tight' for purpose and can get stressed over capability. Had not occurred to me before.
Looks like the Spartan wins won . . .
C-27J tapped for Joint Cargo Aircraft
By Gayle S. Putrich - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Jun 13, 2007 19:37:43 EDT
The Pentagon gave the go-ahead late Wednesday for the Army and Air Force to award the $2 billion Joint Cargo Aircraft contract to the C-27J Spartan team of L-3 Communications Holdings, Boeing and Alenia North America, a unit of Italy’s Finmeccanica.
The Italian airframe beat out the smaller C-295, offered by Raytheon and EADS. Lockheed Martin pulled the already-in-service C-130J out of the competition last year.
The services received approval to buy 78 planes over the next six years, with 54 going to the Army and 24 to the Air Force
RTR at
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/06/defense_JCA_070613/
C-27J tapped for Joint Cargo Aircraft
By Gayle S. Putrich - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Jun 13, 2007 19:37:43 EDT
The Pentagon gave the go-ahead late Wednesday for the Army and Air Force to award the $2 billion Joint Cargo Aircraft contract to the C-27J Spartan team of L-3 Communications Holdings, Boeing and Alenia North America, a unit of Italy’s Finmeccanica.
The Italian airframe beat out the smaller C-295, offered by Raytheon and EADS. Lockheed Martin pulled the already-in-service C-130J out of the competition last year.
The services received approval to buy 78 planes over the next six years, with 54 going to the Army and 24 to the Air Force
RTR at
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/06/defense_JCA_070613/
The information is provided as a point of interest.
Equipment procurement, esp. expensive bits of kit like aircraft, is influenced by the Pentagon. The Brick Brain on the Rideau, home of the tall foreheads that make the decisions, probably keeps an eye, or at least a blink, on what the Pentagon is doing.
Just a thought.
Equipment procurement, esp. expensive bits of kit like aircraft, is influenced by the Pentagon. The Brick Brain on the Rideau, home of the tall foreheads that make the decisions, probably keeps an eye, or at least a blink, on what the Pentagon is doing.
Just a thought.
- Reaction score
- 308
- Points
- 880
This decision could very well be a defining point in this procurement enterprise. With the USAF and US Army as large customers, the CF can piggy back on their supply chain and training environment. We could conceivable alleviate the exorbitant cost of a simulator by buying time off the USAF - like we do with the U.K.'s Merlin simulator for our Cormorant pilots.
Again the commonality of parts with the J Model hercs may also lend towards making this deal a little sweeter. Having such a huge pool of engines, props and other components all in North America would drastically shorten the supply chain between our forces (both US and Canadian) and the Italian manufacturer.
Just food for thought - nothing official here, please move on...
Again the commonality of parts with the J Model hercs may also lend towards making this deal a little sweeter. Having such a huge pool of engines, props and other components all in North America would drastically shorten the supply chain between our forces (both US and Canadian) and the Italian manufacturer.
Just food for thought - nothing official here, please move on...
- Reaction score
- 146
- Points
- 710
A post at The Torch--C-130J vs. C-27J for tactical airlifter:
...[A certain reporter] reports a great economy with the truth
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/david-********-reports-great-economy.html
Mark
Ottawa
...[A certain reporter] reports a great economy with the truth
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/david-********-reports-great-economy.html
Mark
Ottawa
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
MarkOttawa said:
WTF? "great economy"?!? I think the word is "misleading"
- Reaction score
- 146
- Points
- 710
I_am_John_Galt: I use the word "misleading" in the text. "Economy with the truth" is commonly used as a polite way of saying "lying".
Mark
Ottawa
Mark
Ottawa
