From Signals Officer to Aerospace Control Officer in 5 seconds

[Green]

Hi all,

If you don't mind, I need some feedback about my recruiting escapade.

A few days ago, I submitted an application for Signal Officer. This is my third submission to be part of the Canadian Forces.

My first application was in 2010 for ROTP Nurse Officer, while I was at university. I had an interview, a medical check up, and a CFAT test. I was not selected: I was told by an officer that I was not selected due to strong competition.

Meanwhile, after a short but successful career in nursing, I decided that I had reached my limit from this profession; I already worked in six different hospitals (in three different provinces), experienced emergency and critical care, and was starting to get bored. Moreover, my wife was diagnosed with cancer and this brought me a different perspective on life. I submitted a second application for the CF in 2012, this time as (1) Infantry Officer (2) Artillery Officer, and (3) Armour Officer. No interview was done; the staff told me that they had all the information they needed from the last interview and that another interview would not be necessary. I was not selected.

This month (January 2013) I submitted another application, this time for (1) Signals Officer, (2), Infantry Officer, and (3) Artillery Officer. Since forces.ca shows that Signals is in demand, I jumped on the opportunity; I have a strong background computer science and telecommunication.

Interestingly, I received an email the day after I sent my online application, asking to call the nearest recruitment centre. After doing so, the staff asked me questions about my education and experience, and the reason I was selecting these professions. A different person called me later the same day, explaining that all of these career paths were full (for the time), and that the only viable option for me was, very specifically, *Aerospace Control Officer*. He explained he had a negative opinion of Signals Officer path and that infantry was most likely too competitive for me.

In addition, I was informed that based on the data I submitted, I would be an excellent candidate for Aerospace Control Officer, but that the offer was "outsourced" and could become unavailable any time soon. Basically, I had to take a quick decision now. So I told him I would at least think it over until morning, but he *insisted* that the offer might not be available by tomorrow... I got to admit this seems odd.

Coincidentally, my father was an excellent air traffic controller, and I learned some aspects of the job. Because of the time frame imposed by this recruiter, and because of my very strong interest for the CF, I accepted the offer. The sergeant explained they couldn't find all of my applications and that they needed to contact the other recruiting centres were I applied to gather all my files before my interview. I asked the staff if my CTAS was acceptable, since I wasn't competitive from my last applications. They told me that I "qualified as an officer".

My questions are:

1. If the staff told me they had to gather my files, how is it that they already know my CTAS score? I'm guessing it's on database somewhere, where it's easily retrievable.

2. Considering the very short time frame and limited selection I was offered, do these openings happen often like this? If so, why did he asked me to take a decision at that very moment?

3. If they know my CTAS score, than I assume they wouldn't have offered this position before checking. And if they have it, I'm guessing it's at least in the 60 percentile for this particular application?

4. Considering an average of A- at university, 12 years of experience in computer science, 5 years of experience in leadership positions, being bilingual and in excellent shape, how would you venture my chances of being selected?

5. If after this third application I am not selected, I will start applying for NCM positions, as many are actually quite interesting. If so, are my chances any different? (If I just can't make it, I would rather be part of the CF than the FFL ;-)

6. When they called to inform me that I wasn't selected, I asked each officer the specific reasons. Both times they were unable to tell me anything else other than that I was not selected "in the final rounds". Is this purely out of competitiveness or maybe they really had no idea why?

Finally, army.ca was and still is a jewel of information for all recruits.  Thank's a bunch for this. :cdnsalute:

 

[Ayrsayle]

First off - I'm not a recruiter and short of that most of the answers you will get are either inaccurate or a reasonable guess.  I'll try to answer the few I can.

1.  The military is a fairly bureaucratic system - some of the information is stored on databases and some of still held in the old fashioned paper copies.  Military paperwork usually involves a lot of gathering together of the required documentation for the next steps to occur.  This is a VERY common reality (thus the adage - hurry up and wait). 

2. Recruiters ultimately support the institution - If the odds don't look good for you in a different trade (or you seem willing to accept alternatives), they will push you toward the areas where the need is higher.  There is no "special" or "unusual" opportunity here, likely just a limited window to get your application in / a need that needs to be filled / the odds look best for you in that area.

3. Really a moot point.  2 and a half years later I still have no idea what scores I received in my application.  I was ultimately accepted and now work for the CF.  Worrying too much about your scores is somewhat counter productive - you will never find out save that it was "good enough" or "not good enough".  I didn't get the impression you've been offered a position yet (they call and directly say "we are offering you X position, do you accept? if yes, you come in on this date to sign papers and make it official").

4. Who knows. On paper it would look good favorable, but without comparing it to everyone else you are currently being compared to there is no way to say.  I was hired for INF O with similar academic standing and leadership experience but without knowing what you are compared against it is only a guess.

5.  Honestly - both career paths have their advantages and disadvantages.  I have two Cpl's with university degrees and they still enjoy their jobs. They seem fairly happy to let me manage the Admin while they get to go on courses and fire weapons (laughs). Having a degree will improve your chances and increase the likelihood of promotion while in (based on my limited experience looking at the NCM scrits). You will have the option later on to switch to officer if your heart is really set on it, though it may not be as easy a process as being hired as one might be.

6. Yes - your application gets weighted against your competition and with only so many spots available, etc.  I suspect a large part of the reason why you are not told the details is due to the fact you might disagree with that opinion or assessment.  You are not able to change the assessment regardless (save for improving your application, etc) and even attempting to would be doing a disservice to everyone else who applies. For example - I'm aware of where each of the NCM's I work with are ranked within our Company, but this is usually expressed to the member in a general way through their evaluations and performance reviews unless they merited exceptionally high.  Imagine the result of telling people "you ranked 44 out of 45" and expecting that member to still remain motivated and keen (and ultimately continue to develop).  They may also not be privy to the details of why the others were selected and yours was not.

Hopefully that helps.  Most of the more experienced members of this site do not have access to this board anymore (access is capped at 250 posts). You may have more luck posting this in the other recruiting thread as most of these questions can't (usually) be answered by someone with limited military knowledge (myself included).  The blind can't lead the blind, as they say.

Either way - Good luck in your application and feel free to send me a message if you had other questions.

 

[Green]

Hi Ayrsayle,

I see you are as succinct as I am in answering ;-). You're right, I think it makes sense that, from their perspective, they have a better idea where a candidate would fit in all this. At least my score is "good enough", so no worries there anymore. I'm glad you brought up the example where staff would be aware of their score; let's keep it private. I might take you on your invitation to PM. In the end, I think it's only a matter of time for me. I'm very decided at this point. We'll see how this one turns out. Btw, you're no close to being blind.

Thank you very much for your reply and I wish you the best.

The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision. -Helen Keller

 

[DaHonga]

The AEC trade used to be completely red but the last five years recruitment numbers for AEC officers have gone up with huge back logs. Today, the back log has been cleared for the most part and the trade is open up again for controllers, just another up and down cycle all over again. If you were selected to become an AEC officer, I congratulate you as the CFAT score required for your aptitude test needs to be one of the highest if not the highest to be selected compared to other trades.

AEC came about as Air Traffic Control and Air Weapons Control amalgamated back in 1997 I believe, so understand that there are many routes you can take when you go do your trade training. ATC further branches off to VFR (tower) and IFR (terminal) and allows you to control at most of the military air bases in Canada. While for Weapons you can expect to be posted to one of the mobile tactical radar squadrons in Cold Lake, AB or Bagotville, QB or to the Canadian Air Defence Sector in North Bay, ON as part of NORAD. There are also a lot of other postings and deployment opportunities that you won't be able to get with ATC so keep that in mind.

Good luck.

 

[Green]

Thank you for your reply DaHonga and sorry for not answering back sooner.

Your post does clear up a few things for me. I'm glad this occupation is open again, even if sporadically.

I finally received a phone call for a set interview, and can't way to meet the staff at the recruiting centre. Yet, I'm also a bit nervous about the position, because I know how stressful it can be. I'm almost ready with all my documents, my suit is prepped, and am studying for the interview. I'm crossing my fingers.

The AEC trade used to be completely red but the last five years recruitment numbers for AEC officers have gone up with huge back logs. Today, the back log has been cleared for the most part and the trade is open up again for controllers, just another up and down cycle all over again. If you were selected to become an AEC officer, I congratulate you as the CFAT score required for your aptitude test needs to be one of the highest if not the highest to be selected compared to other trades. Btw, the mobile tactical radar squadrons sounds like a lot of fun  :nod:

AEC came about as Air Traffic Control and Air Weapons Control amalgamated back in 1997 I believe, so understand that there are many routes you can take when you go do your trade training. ATC further branches off to VFR (tower) and IFR (terminal) and allows you to control at most of the military air bases in Canada. While for Weapons you can expect to be posted to one of the mobile tactical radar squadrons in Cold Lake, AB or Bagotville, QB or to the Canadian Air Defence Sector in North Bay, ON as part of NORAD. There are also a lot of other postings and deployment opportunities that you won't be able to get with ATC so keep that in mind.

Good luck.

 

[Transporter]

Provided things haven't changed, many of the AEC officers that I've known for the past 25 years have had multiple opportunities for postings outside Canada, particularly within the US and in Europe. This is predominantly those with an Air Weapons background... ditto for AWACS. Incidentally, AWC was my first choice 25 years ago, only to find out at the selection board that my vision category was below MOC standard (something the Med Offr failed to pick up on during my selection medical). So I rolled with "plan B".

I say go for it and don't look back. Don't sweat the interview... just be honest and don't try to bullshit anything.

Best of luck.

 

[Ostrozac]

OUTCAN for this occupation has, in fact, had some changes. Canada pulled out of the NATO AWACS program two years ago, which has had an effect.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/17/canada-pulls-out-of-nato-airborne-surveillance-programs-to-save-90m/

 

[Green]

Thank you Transporter and Ostrozac for your posts. I did my interview today and things went very well. My officer told me not to share what was said during the interview. Anyhow, the the staff was very nice and professional. Even one of them remembered me from our phone conversation and personally greeted me. The captain told me he would refer my application, but I needed a few medical checks (e.g. vision, ECG).

So, good stuff. I'm very happy. Can't wait to go to The Canadian Forces School of Aerospace Control Operations. I know I'm far from that point, but I'm positive.  ushup:

 

[Transporter]

Staying positive is always a good approach (no pun intended). Also, don't get too frazzled trying to over-analyse or get too far ahead of things. Temper your excitement for now, remain confident and remember that slow and steady wins this race...

 

[Green]

I ended up at CFB Trenton for the aircrew selection test and passed for AEC. It was my first time on a base and it was an interesting experience. Everywhere, the staff was courteous and very professional. We even had the opportunity to visit the new tower with an officer - great time. The officer in question, a heli pilot I believe, took the time to explain us certain aspects of AEC, sections of the base and their role, etc. Also, a pilot and an ATC offered a presentation on their respective trades. I felt privileged to be there. I was the only person testing for AEC, all others were trying for the pilot trade, with one third already civil pilots. Approximately 6 on 22 passed, all mostly between 18 and 24 years old.

I'm now merit listed and was told that a selection board for AEC would be set tomorrow in Borden. I'm crossing my fingers now. Is anyone aware of AEC applicants waiting for many months, or years, to be selected?

Best of luck to all 

P.S. Is Rebecca still working in Winnipeg? Just kidding: (http://ultimatecheerleaders.com/lists/service-members/)

 

[BlueShield]

cool stuff, hope we all get selected...

 

[Lilswitche]

Hey Green,

AEC here. I was recruited last summer, and my offer came in a few weeks after the selection board date.  I haven't gone to Cornwall yet; but from my experiences so far, AEC is a great environment to be a part of.