Formal Recognition for Sea Time?

[Stoker]

As a MARS shad, I've always found it ironic that if I were to wear a SWASM it would have to be for deploying with the army and working out of trade on the ground in Afghanistan. God knows I can't be trusted to sail operationally and actually put my rather expensive training to work on a frigate for a six month deployment. I know my bridge watchkeeping certificate is only for minor warships, but you can't tell me that someone who already has a BWK wouldn't earn it on a different platform in a month or so of standing one-in-three on the trip over to the gulf; that seems to be the trend amongst my colleagues who have transferred to the reg force in any event.
Yeah, but for sheer relentless unpleasantness it's tough to top bouncing around on a ship on the Grand Banks for a few months. As someone who's just returned from Sudan, I can say that even when the conditions were most austere there they were still not quite as miserable as time spent on ship, though that may just reflect personal preference. Being in the field is no tea party, but doing 180+ days at sea for five years straight is a hell of a way to make a living. That being said, I can't say that I agree on a medal based on sea time alone.

Consider yourself lucky that you could deploy to the Sudan for a tour, a lot of people on the minor warships won't be even looked at by NAVRES for an opportunity to deploy overseas. I know in my billet we are short so many people right now, if I don't sail the ship doesn't sail. As for sailing on frigates its true that they won't let you sail because most MARS bunks are filled with regs going for their ticket. Now if you want to sail operationally do the nav course and you'll spend time on a CPF during the sea phase.  If you're still dying for operational time take a contract as a BWK on a MCDV, lots of billets available.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Keep in mind here folks that for the reg force (can't speak for the mcdv's I never sailed on one) but for the reg force most of that time is spent out of Canada, maybe instead of a time at sea service pin we amend the requirements for tour medals to be inclusive from say 2 days out of home port until 2 days before arriving home. It's been a long held bone in the navy that they sail for 6-7 months and have nothing to show for the operation they were involved in.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I don't know from billets, NAVRES, minor or major warships. If you guys can work out the details to be equitable and inclusive, you get my support, even if it's academic.

 

[navymich]

I don't know from billets, NAVRES, minor or major warships. If you guys can work out the details to be equitable and inclusive, you get my support, even if it's academic.

For Navres: if you are posted to an MCDV, you are given a class C contract for 1,2 or 3 years.  Being posted to the MCDV, you are given sea pay at the same time.  That is, if you are there for 2 years you get 2 years sea pay as you go.  If you are on a Class B contract, you get sea pay for the time you are on an MCDV as well, as long as it is a sea going MCDV (ie, not the 'down boat').  If you are Class A (and this often works for Class B as well), you get sea pay as you go.  This is also known as Casual Sea Duty.

Overall, it would be equal to a reg force member posted to a ship.  On a reservists MPRR it states the number of years and days of sea pay.  This is totaled by the length of time you were posted to a ship and is regardless of how many days the ship actually sailed.  I have seen a section (in EMAA somewhere, I think?) where it states your time away.  But that would be hard to tally, because it goes by days away from Home Port and therefore, day sails would not count.  For those that are aware of the often horrific sailing schedule of an MCDV, you would know how many days are in and out, constantly, for days on end, and those days would not be counted.

I think that to properly justify days and make it "equitable and inclusive" as recceguy has suggested, would be an absolute nightmare!

 

[IntlBr]

I only support this if we can somehow swing a Field Operational Time pin/medal/neck-badge to go along with the CAB.

:-[

 

[Sig_Des]

I don't get it.

If you're Navy, I'm sure you can expect to go to sea, and then you get paid to go to sea.

I'm Army. Should I get an extra pin to take care of on my uniform if I go to the field? I get paid more for going to the field. And since I'm army, I have an expectation of field time.

If I was Air Force, I'd expect to be able to fly. And hey, I'd get paid more to fly!

Between all the new badges, pins, whatevers, I'm getting a little sick and tired of people wanting these pay-attention-to-me, love-me accoutrement's.

 

[Monsoon]

Consider yourself lucky that you could deploy to the Sudan for a tour, a lot of people on the minor warships won't be even looked at by NAVRES for an opportunity to deploy overseas.

I consider myself quite fortunate. As far as out-of-element deployment opportunities go, it seems to be actually harder for regular force navy folks to do this sort of thing. At least a reservist can pull the plug and then apply for a deployment from class A; the reg force guys are always in a job where it's "absolutely critical" that they stay there, whether it's onboard ship or shuffling leave passes ashore. I only met one reg force navy guy over there (his previous job was as the manning tasker responsible for selecting people for such missions), but several NAVRES guys.

If you're still dying for operational time take a contract as a BWK on a MCDV, lots of billets available.

I meant operational deployment with a CEFCOM mission. I've done the MCDV circuit: my original point was that it's pretty damned thankless work.

 

[George Wallace]

Is not the uniform you wear, not a 'badge' enough?

 

[Monsoon]

Is not the uniform you wear, not a 'badge' enough?

Did not you read what I wrote before?

I can't say that I agree on a medal based on sea time

 

[Stoker]

I consider myself quite fortunate. As far as out-of-element deployment opportunities go, it seems to be actually harder for regular force navy folks to do this sort of thing. At least a reservist can pull the plug and then apply for a deployment from class A; the reg force guys are always in a job where it's "absolutely critical" that they stay there, whether it's onboard ship or shuffling leave passes ashore. I only met one reg force navy guy over there (his previous job was as the manning tasker responsible for selecting people for such missions), but several NAVRES guys.
I meant operational deployment with a CEFCOM mission. I've done the MCDV circuit: my original point was that it's pretty damned thankless work.

I guess the problem is that we shouldn't have to "pull the plug" to go class A and then apply, also it takes time to apply for the tasking. If you are relying on a paycheck its pretty hard. As for thankless work I agree at times it seems to be, but that's the nature of the beast.

 

[Stoker]

I have seen a section (in EMAA somewhere, I think?) where it states your time away.  But that would be hard to tally, because it goes by days away from Home Port and therefore, day sails would not count. 

The COXN now sends in a report to MARLANT on time spent away from home port, I believe its broken down into actual days spent away from home and so forth.

 

[cobbler]

I don't get it.

If you're Navy, I'm sure you can expect to go to sea, and then you get paid to go to sea.

I'm Army. Should I get an extra pin to take care of on my uniform if I go to the field? I get paid more for going to the field. And since I'm army, I have an expectation of field time.

If I was Air Force, I'd expect to be able to fly. And hey, I'd get paid more to fly!

Between all the new badges, pins, whatevers, I'm getting a little sick and tired of people wanting these pay-attention-to-me, love-me accoutrement's.

I think people should be recognised for their sea time. Because frankly, those who rack up the years at sea deserve to get recognised for it.

For the jobs where the majority of your careers will be spent in a sea going billet, you will spend 6 months a year, just about every year, at sea on a 1 in 3 watchbill, then when alongside, you will be duty maybe one night per week (on top of working days).

Now compare this to somebody in a trade that never, or very very rarely goes to sea

They will maybe do 2 nights of duty per month, and some of those types complain when they get less than 8 hours sleep on a day of duty. And thats land based duty, no DCEXs, no drunks coming back onboard. The worst thats likely to happen is some fool locks themselves out of their accomodation.

Sorry, but if you rack up years of sea service, you damn sure deserve to wear something that says it, because you are different from a non sea-goer.

In the RAN we have Individual Readiness badges. If you are fit to go to sea (medically, physically, up to date on training, etc) you wear the badge. There are 4 different tiers depending on sea time served.

The badges are rather small, worn immediatly above the name tag on the right breast.

 

[Sig_Des]

I think people should be recognised for their sea time. Because frankly, those who rack up the years at sea deserve to get recognised for it.

Sorry, but if you rack up years of sea service, you damn sure deserve to wear something that says it, because you are different from a non sea-goer.

I appreciate that some people rack up sea time as opposed to those who don't have the billets.

But, by your reasoning, you open up the floodgates. People who rack up time in the field (And we don't get any 10 o'clock soup or beer machines!) should have a badge.

Flight Crew who rack up hours in the air should get a badge.

To me, just like a CAB, the intent may be a recognition, but IMHO, it would just perpetuate a "I'm better than you because I have this pin" mentality among many.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Do pilots get safe flying pins?

Flight Crew who rack up hours in the air should get a badge.

Just to ensure everyone is on the same page, Aircrew (Pilot, Nav, FE’s, AESOP’s) do wear a badge displaying cumulative amounts of hours on their flight suits.

I am neither for or against this idea, however some folks have mentioned it could result in "false advertisement" leading to dissent (perhaps a bit strong but you get the idea). Once again Aircrew & MSE OP's have been wearing these badges/insignia's for as long as I can remember and have not resulted in any of this. So perhaps that rationale could be somewhat flawed IMHO

 

[aesop081]

Just to ensure everyone is on the same page, Aircrew (Pilot, Nav, FE’s, AESOP’s) do wear a badge displaying cumulative amounts of hours on their flight suits.

Just to clarify, not all aircrew communities have those " xxxxxx 1000 hours" badges. And for those that do, the member buys it out of his own pocket. Just like all the other badges we have on the flight suit.

 

[cobbler]

I appreciate that some people rack up sea time as opposed to those who don't have the billets.

But, by your reasoning, you open up the floodgates. People who rack up time in the field (And we don't get any 10 o'clock soup or beer machines!) should have a badge.

Flight Crew who rack up hours in the air should get a badge.

To me, just like a CAB, the intent may be a recognition, but IMHO, it would just perpetuate a "I'm better than you because I have this pin" mentality among many.

Maybe if a field time badge existed it wouldn't be such a bad thing. (frankly i dont see how flight hours compares).

I will say that I have only once witnessed a lower tier sea badge being commented on, and in that instance it was justified, not a superiority mentalitity or anything.

Each to their own i suppose.

 

[NCRCrow]

After the Sea State this week, I deserve a medal and the MCDV's a battle honour!

The Bering Sea had nothing on the North Atlantic this week!

 

[Cronicbny]

After the Sea State this week, I deserve a medal and the MCDV's a battle honour!

The Bering Sea had nothing on the North Atlantic this week!

That nice out eh? Glad to see you made it back in one piece!

 

[NCRCrow]

going out this week sometime looking for SS6!

The MCDV's are the true warriors of the North Atlantic!

 

[armyvern]

I move that Supply Techs receive buttons and bows for each 6 month period served working in clothing stores -- definitely a hostile environment and not as "cushy" a go as my sergeants recent 6 month deployment in the Sudan ("quite the cushy go" -- his words not mine).  ;D