Fines from Summary trail charge.

[Blunt Object]

I am a reservist in a unit in 31 LIB and I recently finished an "in house course". On the last day of the course I was told I was being charged for an incident in which I had participated and a date for the summary trail was set for a few weeks later then post-poned because of the Christmas holidays, until last week.

For my punishment I'm being paid at the Pte 2level and was fined $240 and this is where I need help. I was told the maximum fine for me could be up to 25% of my weekly pay then I was told it was 25% of my monthly pay. I asked some of the NCOs at my unit which it was and they wern't able to give me an answer and said they'd get back to me ASAP. I've come here to ask because I only have 2 weeks to appeal (less now) and I don't want to appeal my fine if there is nothing to appeal. So if anyone knows how the system works and could help me out I'd greatly apprciate it.

Cheers Blunt. O

 

[George Wallace]

There is no such thing as a weekly pay.

As a Reservist you are paid by the day or portion thereof while on Class A.  If you are on Class B or Class C, you are paid by the month, or portion thereof.  You are paid on the 15th and end month.

 

[a78jumper]

Are charged soldiers still provided with assisting officers this day and age? If so, he is the one that you should be asking the questions of.

 

[Michael OLeary]

You should have been assigned an Assisting Officer who should be the one you ask these questions.

However, as an example from the QR&Os for the specific situation of a Summary Trial conducted by a delegated officer:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol2/ch108_e.asp#108.24

108.10 – DELEGATION OF A COMMANDING OFFICER’S POWERS

(1) Subsection 163(4) of the National Defence Act provides:
 
"163. (4) A commanding officer may, subject to regulations made by the Governor in Council and to the extent that the commanding officer deems fit, delegate powers to try an accused person by summary trial to any officer under the commanding officer’s command, but an officer to whom powers are delegated may not be authorized to impose punishments other than the following:

(a) detention not exceeding fourteen days;
(b) severe reprimand;
(c) reprimand;
(d) a fine not exceeding basic pay for fifteen days; and
(e) minor punishments."

 

[westernarmymember]

Anx U of Military Justice at The Summary Trial Level states that the powers of punishment of a Delegated Officer include fine up to 25% of basic monthly pay.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/training/publications/POCTManual_e.asp

 

[Echo9]

The maximum fine is determined by who heard your trial.  If it was a delegated officer (ie. company commander), then the maximum fine to a reservist is 25% of monthly pay.  A CO can give you a lot more- up to 60% of monthly pay.  Because reservists are paid on a daily and not monthly rate, this equates to 7 days and 18 days respectively (QR&O 108.24- conflicts with 108.10, but is more restrictive and so takes precedence), and applies regardless of whether you are class A, B, or C.

One thing to note is that fines in excess of $200 are considered major punishments, which means that they stay on your record unless you submit a request for a pardon after the fact.

There are only two lines of review open to you.  The first is based on your guilt in the charge, including whether all of the procedural measures were followed.  Often they are not.  The second is that the punishment was not commensurate with the offence.  You're on shakier ground here, unless there were others in the same circumstances who got a lesser punishment.

As the others indicate- you have an assisting officer- use him.  It's his responsibility to dig into the books to get you this information.  You shouldn't have to resort to posting this on the web to get some pretty simple answers.

 

[Blunt Object]

Can someone that is able to help me PM me so I can explain all the details and get this sorted out. Our assisting officer is from a different unit but I'm sure I won't have a problem finding him. I just want to know what to ask because as of 21 Sun Jan 07 I can no longer appeal.

 

[armyvern]

Can someone that is able to help me PM me so I can explain all the details and get this sorted out. Our assisting officer is from a different unit but I'm sure I won't have a problem finding him. I just want to know what to ask because as of 21 Sun Jan 07 I can no longer appeal.

You should already have met him, and if you haven't and your summary trial is over...call him!! Tomorrow!!

And if you have met him...still call him!! Tomorrow!!

 

[George Wallace]

Can someone that is able to help me PM me so I can explain all the details and get this sorted out. Our assisting officer is from a different unit but I'm sure I won't have a problem finding him. I just want to know what to ask because as of 21 Sun Jan 07 I can no longer appeal.

You can print this Topic and use what you need from it, to ask questions or give direction to your Assisting Officer.

You also have the Redress of Grievance procedure.

 

[Blunt Object]

ALrite thanks for all the help ladies and gentlemen I now have what I need to do this.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If you did not meet and speak with your AO prior to your trial, proper procedures were not followed, you were tried under duress and you already have grounds for appeal.