Field/Garrison

[Zoomie]

Man, quite the conversation going on here. Who started this whole thing anyhow, and what was it about again. Oh yeah, someone mentioned that he
probably spent more time in the field with his ResF unit than an average RegF unit. That was when the posts came pouring in. Then we started to bash the Reservists, sure why not? Well as an ex-reservist and now a "lifer" I must think back on my days as a part-time soldier. To tell you the truth, the average trained Militia soldier (pte-cpl rank) can easily display/exhibit the same skill set in the field as his RegF breathren. Albeit he may not have the Mattawa Plains memorized like the guys that have been there for the last 5 years of their lives, he can still soldier with the best of them. I did some time with the regs as a reservist and had zero trouble keeping up with the learning curve.
Quite frankly, the biggest hindrance to the ResF right now is not LCol‘s leading 50 men, but the negative attitudes that are inherent with ResF/RegF collaboration (SYNERGY?)
On a final note, how is it that a reservist is subjected to the same pre-deployment training as his RegF comrades, if the training is so drastically different, how come they (the reservists) don‘t have much longer pre-up periods?

 

[MJP]

Reg F Infantry MOCs suffer from a higher release rate than reserve units...why do you think the PPCLI is short three company‘s?

Actually gunner, Reg F INF is only short about 7% of complete manning across the board. Its true that the PPCLI are short of people but for the most part the RCR and Van Doos are good to go. The combat arm thats actually hurting the most is artillery with a manning level of about 86 or 87%. These numbers are 6 months old but I can‘t imagine it changing in any drastic number.

 

[Gunner]

MJP,

I can‘t speak of numbers within RCR and Vandoo but I question your number of 7% beneath manning across the board. The PPCLI is short three companies in addition (this info is dated) they are also short of officers. The army as a whole is short approximately 1700 soldiers (1700 out of 20000 is 8.5%). The Artillery is mostly suffering from age. Average age of a Bdr is around 32 and the average age of an Arty Capt is 35 (based on last year numbers).

Welcome aboard MJP!

 

[MJP]

gunner you are indeed correct Reg F inf officers status is yellow(below 10% manning). I can‘t speak for the 2nd Bn or the 3rd, but the reason(or one of the main one‘s) 1st Bn went with 2 rifle coys vs 3 is the fact they are taking a independant coy of reservists over on roto 11. My coy has roughly 145 ppl in it(not including some new guys coming in a few weeks). I believe the other coy is in the same boat, which makes our coys pretty big. We are short ppl, but I think we are in line with other trades.

"Welcome aboard MJP!"
I‘m a long time lurker back to when there was this annoying Officer cadet that wanted to be infantry but was grossly overwieght. Man he use to fill this forum with whining about this and that Was quite funny! Cheers!

 

[Doug VT]

If there is any justice in the system, he should be a civie by now.

 

[ParaMoe]

On a final note, how is it that a reservist is subjected to the same pre-deployment training as his RegF comrades, if the training is so drastically different, how come they (the reservists) don‘t have much longer pre-up periods?----Zombie

Well I can tell you this, when we were training for our "overseas deployment " to Afganistan, we had no reservists with us, all regualar force ready to go. The call did not go out to the reserves, because they are a problem. Yes we were slightly under-strength so we pulled a platoon out of our sister battlion to come with us. The reason we did not take reserves because we were going to WAR. Plain and simple. A tour in Bosnia is not going to war (ask anyone who has been there since Roto 3). The reserves can make to cut to head overseas to the Balklands because it‘s (dare I say) boring and quiet. Afganistan is a war. We cannot take troops who only have a six to eight week battle school course in the summer over some one who has had sixteen weeks of infantry training.
Now with this reserve slaggin‘ that is going on. It‘s not really the individual soldiers that I‘m talking about but rather the units. No one in their right mind will ‘bug out‘ a reserve unit to head out to war even if they have a warning order six months ahead of time. Yes the regiments did well in the past in war, but they were classified as regular force then, but we are talking about now and now the reserves (as a unit) are not much to talk about. Sure there are little groups of keeners in the ranks, but as a whole not very effective. :mg:

"What manner of men are these who wear the maroon beret....)

 

[Jungle]

ParaMoe makes a point... Remember the deployments to Somalia, Rwanda, East Timor... no reservists. They turn to reservists when things quiet down and routine settles in. Now I am not bashing reservists, but the facts are there.

 

[ArmyAl]

Sure res inf might not cut the cake for a "real deployment", but how about the arty?
Res and Reg are the same and the drills are no different in peace and war, they are the only trade to fire live on every single ex (maybe other trades)
So to put a res bty into a reg regt in a "real deployment" is no prob, the difference would be more ammo and more picketing and lots of digging.

 

[herbie]

ArmyAl
There is a lot more to the artillery than " pull string, make big gun go boom ". The reserves can effectivly fire their howitzers, but how much time do they spend on local defence i.e. MG‘s, C-7, clearing patrols, defence of recce, anti tank, etc.
Also the reserves and reg arty use different guns ( thats a rant for another day)
Just as a res infantry or mechanic needs to do a serious pre-deployment training schedule, so does the res arty.
On another note, although the res and reg are not "equal" ( apples and oranges) many res served with distinction in Medac
cheers

 

[ArmyAl]

Herb
So the guns are different but not the drills.
Hmm how long did it take me to convert to the LG.... 2 weeks, how long did it take me to convert to the old L5.... 2 weeks and guess what how long did it take me to covert over to the 109... 2 weeks.
If you let them play with it they can do the job, I know I had a res Bomber as my 2i/c in bosnia, tells you how hard the drills are, its all the same except we are better at pushing brooms then the res. lol
As for local def and sorts, well not all of us are good at it, I just see the res in a better way then most, it‘s not their fault that the system is not working for them.
God help us if the bad res look good!
This is my opion.

 

[Andyboy]

Not to nitpick but there were reservists in Somalia. Two from my unit went, one in a rifle section in 2CDO and one in RQ.

 

[Recce41]

Damn on all my tours, 60% were crap, 30% could pass but needed work, 5% pass, 5% good. If a Res comes , he should be a Cpl and thats a give me rank. We have Tprs with more leadership. Yes I was a Res but grew up in a Military Family. So I knew when to speak. With courses half the time for a Reg and 1/4 the time in how could anyone compare Reg/Res. I‘ve seen 5 yr Sgts, Damn we have 5yr Cpls with 2/3 tours.

 

[Marauder]

So you swear by the fact that reservists are undertrained and apparently too f*cking stupid to pick up skills quickly enough. Fair enough, that‘s your assessment.
And yet you don‘t seem to want to let reservists have more training and skills.

"They would get the training, if most did‘t go home when it rained. Damn I been a Course WO for Res courses with 10 pers when 30 were to show. Why spend the money ? Stop crying and get on with it."

So we need the training, but you don‘t want to offer the $$$$ or time to get us up to the mythical, revered RegF Combat Standard.

Which ****ing side of the coin is it Sarn‘t???

 

[ArmyAl]

Well said.
I try to teach as much to a res. because alot of those people have heart, but that‘s the same for a reg.
If the money was there and all that goes with it then we would be a better family.
Someone please tell me what the standard is, if it‘s more bitching and sweeping and blah blah blah then tell me, if all you can say its more of, then take the time and give
the guys what they need to know.
The % thing goes both ways, I know of guys through the years that get "hurt" just to avoid a ex. and if we are so good then maybe we should put the word elite in front of regiment names like the
Royal Canadian Elite Horse Artillery!
I got my full salad bowl in ten, maybe those 5 year cpl are there for a reason.
The give me rank works both ways as well.

I‘m just a guy that sticks up for the little ones.

 

[Zoomie]

Reservist bashing aside, I find it very difficult to let one comment pass. Something about a RegF trooper having more leadership smarts than some ResF MCpl‘s/Sgt??? Give me a break! What kind of story are you spinning now! Firstly, there is no conceivable way a fresh-out of battleschool (or Armour school) private/ trooper could have nearly as much leadership know-how and smarts as a CLC/6A qualified soldier. Just not possible. For close to almost a decade now, all training post-battle school is exactly the same for the Regs and Reserves. **** , I had JTF corporals on my JLC in Petawawa, were they on an inferior leadership course, I think not.
I will be the first to admit Reservist weaknesses, but also the first to defend them to the hilt. Sure they are underfunded and undertrained, but when compared to the status of most Army Reserves across NATO (read USA) they are in pretty good shape. The states have no problem sending their reservists and guardsmen into battle (Gulf War) but they are in worst shape than us. Just goes to show that maybe our reservists wouldn‘t just blow themselves up in a combat theatre.

Per Ardua Ad Astra
Swift and Bold (the correct motto)

 

[Doug VT]

I‘m sure that Recce41 wasn‘t referring to a trooper fresh out of battle school. Yes, there are some checked out RegF troopers/privates that are obviously loaded with leadership potential. Same goes for the reserves. Both elements are cross sections of Canadian society. However, the average reserve (new)MCpl has about 1/4 of the experience that the average 3 year trooper/private.
Not all courses after battle school are exactly the same. The CFJLC is not a difficult course, if you don‘t already know the material before you arrive then you shouldn‘t be there. All it really does if weed out the individuals who should not proceed, although it seems that they‘ll pass anyone nowadays.
Don‘t get so hung up about this whole "ResF vs. RegF" thing. Remember they are SEPARATE elements, they were never meant to be exactly the same. Accept it, for it will never change. Enjoy what you have.

 

[herbie]

Doug
that was my point as well. A res is a part time soldier. For the most part they attend school or work full time then also parade on a semi regular basis. Some are very dedicated, some are slugs. The reg is a " full time soldier ". they parade on a regular basis. Some are dedicated, some are slugs. I know this is like telling people to suck eggs, but with the number of times this conversation comes up, I figured I would try to clarify the obvious differences.
Those res who think they are better trained / more capable then the regs are deluced. Conversley those who say the res are lazy / useless don‘t forget these people put in 40-50 hour weeks PLUS army time.
The two elements are different and only partially compatable.
It is the reg soldier ‘s job to try to impart his experience and lessons learned to the res working with him. The res meanwhile must mantain an open attitude to learning and on his own time mantain his fitness and basic knowledge.
It takes an honest effort from all involved, but if we wait around for some magical ( and effortless ) solution from the puzzle palace, then we‘ll be having this conversation in 30 years still.
G0DDAMN I‘ve never typed so much in my life. I gotta go soak my hands in some epson salts . Cheers

 

[Recce41]

Thanx Doug
Yes not a QL3 Tpr, I remember when we sent 2 yr Tprs on the old 14 week CLC, I‘ve met Res MCpl-WO+ that could not even command a Iltis. I have 22 yrs in and seen it all. Last Summer I had a 9 Month Gunner on a JNCO course, just to keep the number up. Canidates showing up with the PT Test dated the same day they were traveling. What he do? Do it in his car.
Why do you think Res soldiers were only Cpls on Tours. I‘ve only seen ex Regs or now on the easy tours keep their rank. On the PPCLI UNPROFOR tour, they tryed to form a Res Coy, most of the soldiers could not even get alog, due they were from different Regts. I remember On Guard 90, when we the REG FORCE soldiers sweated weeks away to dig your trenches, to save the Res time to play. What are you going to do for real? call us!

 

[ArmyAl]

God damn recce you are a crusty old fart!
LMAO.
Never will you give a res. credit for even cleaning his *** and appling a fresh coat of CLP.

 

[Sharpey]

Been lurking in this thread for awhile, I‘ll drop my 1 cent in now. Been a reservist for about 9 years. Have over the years wished and complained about our training, wishing we had more, more opportunities etc... But, I (we) are Reservists. Yes we are being Restructured, but we are still here to basically augment the Regs. When the s**t hits the fan, we can, with predeployment training, be of better use to the Regs. In the mean time, UN tours and Ice Storms are about all we can get. In my oppinion, this will never change, as much as I wish it would. But, this is the Military career I chose when I was in High School. So be it. If Canada‘s security was ever threatened, on our own soil, no doubt we would be called out as the Reg Force are hurting for Soldiers, much like us to.

The Regs are training for their roles, as we are training for ours. Take RECCE for example. Regs lean towards Survaillance, Res lean towards Mud. Two important aspects of RECCE, but quite a bit different. For this, speaking from the RECCE side as I can‘t speak for other trades, it is hard to compare Regs and Res.