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Fahrenheit 911 review thread

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nbk

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I saw the flick today, so I thought I'd write up my impressions, since you all are waiting with baited breath in anticipation for what I have to say.

I woke up this morning and found out that the movie opened today at my usual theater. I donned my brand new ARMY.CA t-shirt and took the subway downtown. Got in to the theater and it was packed. I've never been to a film on opening day, but this one was completely jammed. I was lucky to get a seat, but I had strangers on all sides of me, which is a first for going to this huge theater (the Paramount, John and Richmond).

Anyways, the flick started, and it was pretty good. The first part of the movie talks a lot about the Bush/Saudi royal/bin laden connection, as well the 2000 election, and a look at Bush's first few months in office, and what he did morning of 11/9/01. This first part had a lot of good points in it. What Moore does, is present the facts and fill in the spaces that are not explicit with his own personal opinions. There are some parts which were genuinely boring however, and slowed down the pace a lot. Moore does not have nearly as much on screen time as Bowling for Columbine, for better or for worse (probably better for most of you).

One problem that I had, was how little he talks about the oil pipeline through Afghanistan. He does not make enough connection between Bush's "ignorance" to the threat pre Sept 11, and how much he benefits from colonizing Afghanistan, which would have been a powerful point if he chose to concentrate on it, but instead he goes off on an uncomforting tangent about the US military.

During the second half of the film he straddles the tightrope between criticizing the war, and criticizing the US soldiers themselves. Of course with Moore's girth, the tightrope bends a little too far towards the "making soldiers look evil" side, although he redeems himself a bit at the end of the movie, explaining how it is the administrations fault that the soldiers are over there, and he really wants the american boys back in the states where they are safe. He also spends a LOT of time on one perticular woman who lost her son in early April, and those scenes are full of many tears, and in my opinion, do nothing to help his point of exposing Bush's lies about the war. These scenes are really just to appeal to the more emotional members of the audience, and hopefully get them riled up with emotion.

All in all, the movie was just okay. It was not great, but was not bad. He could have done it a lot better I think. There is so much more he could have talked about, so many more facts he could have exposed, but he had to go the cheap route and play on the audience's emotions. However I think most people would watch those scenes and roll their eyes. Its unfortunate her son died, but lots of people die in a war and her son was in the military. She has every right to be mad at the terrorists and bush as she shows in the movie, but why include this in the movie, for any other reason then to try and tug at the emotions of the audience?

There were plenty of really funny moments, and the best line belonged to a Taliban leader of all people, who was giving a press confrence in the US before 9/11. A female journalist asks him a question about oppressing women in Afghanistan and...well you gotta see the movie, his response made me laugh out loud, but half the audience got angry with it. hahaha those wacky talibans. Bush had some pretty hilarious lines too, as well as other members of the bush administration. The audience was laughing a lot during the movie.

Moore says in many interviews that the movie is very biased. He presents the facts, and gives his personal opinion about them. If you don't like Moore, you will not like this movie probably. I'd say, go see it, but don't expect to be blown away. If you have been paying attention to whats really going on in the world, the movie wont drop any big bombshells on you. But it could be a good update on the real world for some. Looking back on it now, it actually goes pretty easy on the bush administration.

If anyone has any other opinions about the movie, *After Seeing It*, then I'd love to hear them.
 
I know that you said* after seeing it* but I can't help but to comment on your one line.. "so many more facts he could have exposed".
If that was even remotely true don't you think he would have done it?
 
No I don't think he would. They would be good points, but as I said, he tries to play the audience, especially the emotional people. I think its dumb of him to do that, but I think it will work on the emotional people, to get them to agree with him.
 
I got to see the movie opening night. I am not a fan of Michel Moore because of his simplistic method of looking at things. However, I think it is healthy to listen to the other side of the equation, so I don't mind listening to him.

In the movie he spent a great deal of time talking about the Bush families connection to the Bin Ladden family and Saudi Arabia. He covered in detail how the Bin Laddens were rushed out of the states, and how Bush Sr. was in Saudi Arabia shortly after the Sept 11th attacks. He pointed out the tremendous financial hold Saudi Arabia has over the Bush family and the American economy. Well...so what? I think that every major political power in the states has some major financial connections from other countries. You ever stop and wonder just how deep Bill Clinton had his hand in the Israeli state cookie jar? Wonder why he put so much effort into that country? This facts are nothing new and they are more of a bash against the American political process, rather than a stab at Bush himself in my opinion.

Moore also spent a lot of time trying to make a point about the 'lack of force' used in the invasion of Afghanistan. He stated that not enough troops were sent, Bush took too long to respond because he was not really interested.

How long was it before the troops were on the ground there? 8 weeks? Wow, you mean after Sept. 11th, they figured out how did the attacks, tried to negotiate with the Taliban to hand over Bin Ladden, then rally several other countries to go over and fight with them?   (Moore forgot to mention that part) And then launch a major multinational fighting force into Afghanistan, push the Taliban out and start stabilizing the country.   Moore really did not mention these facts when making that point. I think most of the experienced members of this board will think it was an impressive undertaking in a very short period of time. Am I right?

Moore also spent a great deal of time trying to show the consequences of invasion. This is where his bias really started to annoy me. He portrayed the Iraqis all as innocent civilians and made very little mention of the resistance being encountered by the forces there. He showed a very tragic side of war that pertained to the Iraqis, there is also a very tragic side from the American perspective that should not be ignored.

  He also spends a LOT of time on one particular woman who lost her son in early April, and those scenes are full of many tears, and in my opinion, do nothing to help his point of exposing Bush's lies about the war

You are right in that this segment did very little to expose Bush's position in this war. However, I thought that this was a very interesting to see the transition this woman went through. When we first see her in the film he is the 'All American' where she would prop the American flag on her front lawn every morning and was very proud of her families involvement in the military. Then after her son was killed in the war we see a woman and her family devastated by grief. This is followed by her anger towards Bush for taking her son from her and destroying the foundations of her beliefs. I think it is important to see the face value effects of war and what it can do to the individual people. You would certainly not see anything like that from the other side of this argument.

In all, the film is biased and has a clear objective to get Bush out of office. I thought it was very ironic where Moore was pointing out bias in American journalism in the war (Very solid   point), where he was being even more biased in this film.

Either way, I think it is an interesting film to see. You just have to walk in there knowing it is a one sided argument.







 
I thought that it was a pretty good movie...however I began to feel very uncomfortable during the 'soldier bashing' part of it. We have enough people thinking that ALL soldiers EVERYWHERE are babykillers out to ruin the world.
 
Well, saw the thing yesterday, so here's my impression of it:

I went in expecting complete left propaganda, and got exactly that. The movie itself wasn't all that great cinematically though IMO. Given the award at Cannes and all the hype I was kind of disappointed, though it wasn't a complete waste of time either.

While it is very good at pointing out the absurd amount of time wasted on vacation by Bush, there was too much time spent on Moore's "I wonder what he's thinking about right now" and "I wonder what went on in that room" crap. I think it would have greatly improved the movie just to let the arguments that are at least based marginally on fact stand for themselves without resulting to pure 100% assumption as supporting "evidence". Afterall, it was much longer than it needed to be to get the point across, and the pure assumption moments only took attention away from more credible arguments and made it drag on and on.

It wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination (Bowling for Columbine was much better), but I'd say it was worth my time just to see what all the fuss is about.

For the record, the most disturbing thing about watching this movie had nothing to do with what was on screen. As the credits began to roll, a large portion of the audience started clapping and cheering loudly as if the ultimate truth had just been revealed. A large number of lemmings, uh, I mean people, are apparently unable to take things with a grain of salt.   ::)
 
I thought it was boring and there was too much talking.... but then again I only really like movies with breasts, car chases, swearing and guns....
 
ags281 said:
For the record, the most disturbing thing about watching this movie had nothing to do with what was on screen. As the credits began to roll, a large portion of the audience started clapping and cheering loudly as if the ultimate truth had just been revealed. A large number of lemmings, uh, I mean people, are apparently unable to take things with a grain of salt.   ::)

Wholeheartedly agree with this statement.  Actually, I went to see this movie with a couple friends, and one of them spent an hour looking for something "Republician" to wear to the movie.  Eventually, he stuffed a blue beanie baby with a stars and stripe top hat into his shirt pocket.  He made some pro-Bush comments after the movie, and forces us to run for our lives.

Overall, I went into the movie expecting it to be heavily biased and I got what I expected, so I didn't find it to be too bad.  There were a few relevent facts, but you have to sift through a lot of opinion and bullshit to find them.

Movies are to entertain or to educate.  I have yet to see one that can do both.  Moore focuses on the former, yet the unwashed masses take it as the latter.
 
I read the book "Stupid White Men' by  Michel Moore. I went to see this movie the other day. Since I am not from these countries it is difficult for me to have an opinion either way. I think that Moore raises some good points and that he should be listened to as he has much to say. I do not know if what he says is correct. But one should never turn away from a man who works hard to give you his ideas, you should take his ideas and decide.

I think the movie is interesting because I got to learn more about the American political system and I learned it has a very dark side. For example when the secret police came to guard the Saudi embassy. That spoke volumes about how they did not seem interested in the people, just the people with the money.
 
Well, I'm not going to help that seditious piece of turd get any richer, so I will not view this in the theatre or on video, or ever, at all. So I could give a fuck, really. I just hope he chokes on escargot or a piece of phrench bread the next time he hauls his corpulent ass to cannes.
 
The movie was released in Paris this Wednesday, and I went to go see it last night, but it was sold out.  I went to see it this afternoon, and the theatre was much more packed than is normal for a Saturday afternoon.  The French are eating this up.  Anyway, on to the movie.  I was completely underwhelmed.  I was trying to go in with an open mind (since I'm rather dubious about the objectivity of almost everything written about this movie) but I was expecting something that wasn't as good as Bowling for Columbine.  In that movie, Moore had some interesting ideas, backed up some of his arguments, and made an interesting thesis that was worth thinking about once the movie was over.  Whereas his latest effort merely plays to the lowest common denominator.  Look!  There's Bush saying something goofy!  Look!  He's shaking hands with a raghead!  Oh!  There he is saying something inappropriate while golfing!

Bush's connection to the Bin Laden family was interesting, but the argument presented about the family's connection to Osama was so tenuous as to be laughable.  Two members (out of his 50-odd immediate family) went to his son's wedding, so Osama isn't the black sheep of the family?  Give me a break.  Oh look!  There's Bush shaking hands with another raghead!  That just isn't right!

Moore trying to talk Congressmen to enlist their children in the military was amusing, but a little thought about his argument should be made.  Moore was aghast that only 1 out of 535 Congressmen had children serving in Iraq.  In fact a rough calculation shows that with 120k American troops in Iraq out of a population of about 300M, 535 Congressmen with 2 kids each should produce a little less than one half of a soldier.  The fact that this sample of Americans has actually produced one soldier sort of destroys his argument.

Moore's final Orwellian thesis was pathetic.  Bush is organizing a perpetual war to maintain his riches and place in society?  The argument just doesn't wash (and isn't supported by what Moore showed in the movie).  Bush may be a bumbling oaf with misguided ideas about international relations, but he isn't involved in a massive conspiracy to generate perpetual war, and I can't honestly label him as evil incarnate.  (If we want to use an analogy to perpetual war, I think we're closer to Joe Haldeman's version than George Orwell's.)

I've seen other films that were in competition at Cannes this year, and while I wouldn't call this one the worst, calling it middle of the pack might be a bit generous.  It's not even the best documentary I've seen this year (that distinction goes to Super Size Me).  Overall I was pretty disappointed.
 
Just think, if disney didn't turn down (whatever it was they were asked to do) This film probably wouldn't be doing nearly half as well as it is. Say what you want about Moore the man knows self promotion.

Kind of reminds me of Howard Stern.
 
A Moore is a funny guy. I enjoyed that film although I don't like everything he says.

I found the part where he had the recruiters going around talking to people. He was trying to make it look bad that the Army will go to towns with high poverty and try to get them to join. How aweful! Then I think, do you see any other people going around those poor places offering people jobs and a opportunity to start a new carrer, get some income and maybe go do something bigger and better after the army?....I didn't think so.
 
Well I admit that I haven't seen the movie (or his first one for that matter) I figured that he was just grandstanding for attention...Some interesting posts here on this thread.

It seems that some of the older members are vehemently against M. Moore. Why is that? Do most serving soldiers not like him? Did he at some point make a movie running down the army (remember I have't seen them)

Could someone enlighten me on the subject please?

Mike
 
LanceaLot said:
A Moore is a funny guy. I enjoyed that film although I don't like everything he says.

I found the part where he had the recruiters going around talking to people. He was trying to make it look bad that the Army will go to towns with high poverty and try to get them to join. How aweful! Then I think, do you see any other people going around those poor places offering people jobs and a opportunity to start a new carrer, get some income and maybe go do something bigger and better after the army?....I didn't think so.

True...  I mean, god forbid someone going to a neighbourhood and saying "look, I know things aren't great here.  The plant/mine/ice cream factory that shut down has devistated this town...  I'm not forcing anything, but have you given thought to the military?  We'll train you, get you your GED and some extremely valuable life and employment skills, get you off welfare, and we'll give you your dignity back."  Hell, I'd be offended too.  ::)

B.N.S.
 
Tach9 said:
Well I admit that I haven't seen the movie (or his first one for that matter) I figured that he was just grandstanding for attention...Some interesting posts here on this thread.

It seems that some of the older members are vehemently against M. Moore. Why is that? Do most serving soldiers not like him? Did he at some point make a movie running down the army (remember I have't seen them)

Could someone enlighten me on the subject please?

Mike

It's not a matter of "serving soldiers' liking or disliking him.  He is intellectually dishonest.  I enjoyed Bowling for Columbine, though reading some of the detailed dicussions of it online, it is apparent that much of what was on screen wasn't accurate.  Moore at least had a sliver of impartiality in it - only because he managed to film Charlton Heston sticking his foot in his mouth.

Personally, I'm neither bothered nor infatuated by Moore.  I won't pay to see his latest movie either - its like listening to phone-in radio shows.  I can't do it anymore, I have to switch them off, because they aren't about presenting arguments in a coherent way, supported by evidence, they are simply about complaining loud and long.  Has no attraction for me whatsoever.  I suspect I'm not alone.

So it is not a soldier's stance against Moore, but an intellectual stance.
 
Here's an interesting article (with updates) on the "Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11."  I am not quoting it as it is several pages long, with extensive references, and includes counter-claims, rebuttals, etc.:

http://www.davekopel.org/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
 
Moore is at best intellectually dishonest and this film is nothing more then leftist propaganda of the worst kind. It is NOT a documentary, as he and others claim.

http://moorelies.com/
 
It's amazing how much attention this buffoon and his pseudo-investigative hype garners among the public (The same could be said for idiots from the opposite end of the spectrum like Pat Buchanan).  It just goes to show eager the average citizen is to accept hype over analytical reason.
 
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